Beware the "friendly" Hello!

sannna

Well, if I have to correct every guy that gives me crap I can better quit my job, because I would not even have time to get to it at all.

Really, I see your point, but the problem is these are two different things. One is foreigners getting fooled, because they don't use their minds.

The other is foreigners having to put up with crap because many more Indian men than you would expect do not know what respect means. And the fact that a lot of Indian girls get the same kind of crap as I do on a dayly basis only proves the second point. That is: it is not necessarily, always, or only the foreigner, but it is the men who are wrong here and who have to change behaviour!

PeakXV

That could be the premise for a good thread.

What have you done in India that you would never do at home?

<based on what I've read on IM>

. Accept a wedding invite from a <before today> complete unknown.
. share food with strangers on a train/bus.
. shake hands on the street with every tom,dick & harry
. use your hand and a bucket.

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capt_mahajan

don't forget the sink

sannna, just two quick points

-one, nobody is blaming the foreigner.
-two, can you use 'some' before 'Indian men' in some of your posts, please?

JuliaF

Yes but Cap'n and Ivan, the point about this particular behaviour (the tickle on the palm during a handshake) is that Sanna, AliMonbeam and I didn't know its meaning till now.
I've travelled in India a lot, sometimes on my own, and I like to think I know how to behave - so it's quite a shock to discover the meaning of something I have experienced but shrugged off as odd when I should have responded severely (and would if I had known)

It's not about accepting behaviours differently when in India as in this case we were not aware of the significance / meaning of the behaviour.

capt_mahajan

Quite honestly, neither did I.

But that is beside the point. That behaviour should not be acceptable anyway, and yes, as sannna says

What Ivan is saying and what I am agreeing with is quite another thing.

Ali-Monbeam

We dont accept crap from anyone...and I was with my husband when this happended and they guy (perv)was introduced to us by a person we knew. I wish I knew then what it meant,I would have made him look a right (insert appropriate word)!

We dont take any weird or odd behavior from people/locals when away. we are both a little suspicious of most, the guys who run up to you from nowhere selling tat (where the eck do they come from) when you just stop to get your bearings on a street corner or beach sellers even a friendly (seeming ) local who wants to show you some "hidden gem that tourists will love".

Its true theres unwritten codes the world over for decent behaviour. and that wasnt it!

sannna

Thanks for correcting me there, my annoiance (?) got the better of me in those posts. However, I did not add "some". Because if it were only "some" men/boys I would not even bother to discuss it here. It would be the same as at home. The point is that it happens often, very very often. So I added many. I hope you don't mind that. It takes the unnecessary generalization away, but does show that I feel that it happens really often.

I think we are discussing different points here.
(1) I think we all agree that there is rude/nasty behaviour that is not appropriate anywhere around the world. No need for discussing that as such, I guess.

(2) Some foreigners go to India with a cultural relativists' mindset that makes them forget/gloss over the first point, and as a result accept more things than they would do at home. They think maybe: different country, different rules.

(3) No all that is inappropriate is universally understood instantly. Although it might feel fishy (like the hand-thing), the foreigner might choose to believe in the goodness of people instead of being suspicious all the time. Every traveller has expierenced that awfull feeling of making a scene to find out afterwards that due to miscommunication and misundersanding you got it all wrong. Leaving you ashamed and embarrased of yourself and maybe promising yourself to jump conclusions less quickly next time, and be more tolerant of things that are new/ that you don't understand... even if they seem fishy (like the hand-thing).

(4) If someone harasses you, whether you are aware of it or not, that person is to blame, always, period. Not the one that is being harassed. Somethings might be done to make the harassment less likely to happen (such as decent clothing and behaviour) but even if you wear a skimpy skirt, walk with a top that reveals a lot of skin, wonder through dark allies at night, it is the one that harasses you who is wrong. All you can say about the one doing these stupid things is that (s)he is stupid. Not more not less. It can never justify the bad guys actions (as it is usually guys, I think it is safe to leave girl out of this sentence..- please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Nick-H

Good God, I'm glad I read this thread before I had the chance to meet Brishti.

Now I know, that if we ever do meet, my hands are staying in my pockets.


Err... Wait, No... I err...

(when in hole, stop digging)

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capt_mahajan

I never mind accuracy. And thanks.


Also when in sink.

PeakXV

Yes - you can certainly do your part to neutralize the 'bad people". But high risk behaviour such as hitchhiking or walkng skimpily dressed (or not) through dark allies is just that - high risk behaviour. No 'blame game' in this equation - just decreasing odds for not being violated.

shashank.aggarwal

I agree with Sanna on this..it is sheer stupidity however the person errr....ummmm....I guess the person should not be blamed

But on second thoughts...I feel yes, part of the blame lies in person's stupidity as well...

I would say that if a person is aware of the scenario and still chooses to do above mentioned "high risk" things then the person should share the blame...

However if the person is not aware, and does the same thing as he/she would have done in their home town then the person cannot be blamed..!!

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sannna

So you do not agree with me...
For me the one being harrassed is never wrong or to be blamed for it. That person is stupid and hopefully takes more precautions next time. The law here is the guideline for me. It is not okay to touch someone against their will. Only if there is consent it is okay. Always, and as far as I know in every country in the world (even if it is not obeyed). To make this into a grey area by laying part of the blame by the harrassed on is very dangerous I feel, as it is the first step towards justification. And that road can only end in not being able to punish offenders anymore. I am not saying that this is your opinion.. I am just saying that your are taking the important step one on that road.

The problem is that the boundaries become too grey, if you argue along this point anyway. So when is a skirt to short, or are clothes too skimpy exactly? After what time should girls stay indoors to prevent them from "having to share the blame" should something happen? At what road or landmark does the area where you have to "share the blame" begin and where does it end?

The only result of such reasoning is that the perverts will be the ones who are in power and can make the rules, not the innocent.

shashank.aggarwal

I don't have answers Sanna..and you do make sense..however my mind still feels that sometimes blame is shared...

maybe it has to do with my Indian upbringing

MangoKulfi

Could be the 'man' thing too.

I've heard a lot of men and women on this issue and men tend to blame the woman for the way she dresses. They want her to take partial responsibility. Whereas most women (those not comditioned to think otherwise) put the blame sqarely on the man, like the law does.

Like Sannna says, when is a skirt too short or a neckline too low? And anyway it's not about being turned on, 'coz then 70 and 80 year olds wouldn't be raped. It's all about power and control.

ranjan154

Sanna, you must be talking about Indian men who are either hardly educated or over smart, always trying to fool others Indians included.Moreover, it has become a global trend to disrespect foreigners, Indians included when they go abroad, but the good thing is that these are again the same set of sick and mindless people on foreign land.

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