Jodhpur stampede

carlaeb

Did you hear about this? So sad.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080930/...v9osXROJ5vaA8F

I just don't know how this keeps happening over and over again year after year all over the country. I know it is pointless to say this in India, but it just doesn't make sense that there is absolutely no public safety consciousness anywhere. Officials in the cities that have pilgrimages sites know they are going to have hordes of visitors. Can't they be better managed?

Yea, I know, but the part about the kid sitting next to his mom's body really upset me. Damn reporters. It's all just so frustrating. I think ten times a day I'm saying, "this doesn't make sense!" about one thing or another.

shashank.aggarwal

Its not in Jaipur but in Jodhpur.

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carlaeb

You're right. The by-line says "Jaipur" but probably that is just where the reporter sent the news from.

Also, the number of dead keeps changing. I've read everything from 35-80. It's just such a terrible way to die. To end in a struggle of pure panic. It's like drowning. Just awful. Gives me chills.

I think the older I get I'm too sensitive to read the news. I'm going to end up an cynical old shut-in.

New-South-Welshman

It always happens in India. They need crowd management at events like this.

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puchoo

Its a shame....

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Aishah

Mod Note: I have adjusted the title. Just now watching on TV - they are saying 100 died, and many injuries. They stated they did have crowd management, but it was coming down the hill of the Fort and someone falling over that started the problem. That hill is quite slippery, and huge crowds going too fast would cause a catastrophe, which has happened. The 'crowd management' was not good enough obviously.
Very sad for the families.
Stampedes happen from time to time here - one of the places also to be careful where they are huge crowds is those steps on railway overhead bridges when too many people are trying to get out of the station at the same time.
Just viewing your link, Carlaeb, they are saying it was started by a 'bomb rumour'. Didn't hear that on the news...also latest figs. are 125 dead. Terrible.

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Luc

latest news from italy say that the panic was caused by policeman when they tried to make a local "vip" enter the temple without queying, more than 170 died....so sad

haydn

my love goes out to friends in Jodphur, a beautiful town, really. and all for a non-bomb! this climate of fear and hatred really must be thwarted! i'm guessing (i know it's presumptuous!) that Ghandi would have had everyone sit down and pray/meditate in the face of a bomb threat. running and pushing down steep stairs is a no-brainer.
shantih

windrider24584

Sad...truely very sad......we need efficient crowd management. Sometimes there are so much crowd in small, narrow places a small rumour or mistake can create huge stampede.This happens years after years in pilgrimages of India, football stadiums of South America...so unacceptable way to die.

carlaeb

The problem seems to be:

huge population
inefficient or nonexistent crowd/safety planning from officials
climate of fear (or at least a climate where it is easily incited)
refusal of people to queue

I add this last one because the pushing and shoving and rushing does not just happen in crowded places or under circumstances where people panic. It also happens when we get on the bus, enter a building, purchase veggies, drive down the road, etc.

Not that identifying any of these things helps the situation at all. Everyone knows this. I just keep finding myself grappling with why things are the way they are in the face of such danger and tragedy.

It's just such so frustrating. Someone must be making money off of all those pilgrims. Surely there are finances to provide better facilities or to organize the coming or going in such a way that huge crowds don't collect.

My mother in law tells me I need to stop spinning my wheels about these things and just deal with the fact that life is like this here. But isn't that the sort of attitude that makes it that way?

shashank.aggarwal

Its really a sad incident, but the blame goes to crowd and only crowd. Whatever arrangements are made, people are willing to break them at drop of a hat. Try visiting an Indian temple and you will realize what I am talking about.

No one wants to follow the lines. If barricades are put in, then they will jump them, cross them do whatever they want. Everyone wants to reach first, no one shows any patience. You just stand in the crowd without trying to move, but you will still be pushed along.

Its the most pathetic religious systems in India.

Aishah

Shashank you are so correct. Latest now on NDTV is 157 dead and more than 100 injured. Conflicting news re how it started. NDTV now are saying that huge crowds gathered before the temple opened. Lines for men, and separate lines for women. On the opening of the temple around 5.30a.m a lot of pushing, racing etc by the men. Most of those killed are men. They were actually forcing themselves uphill not downhill to get into the temple. And this is how the stampede started. Most of the dead and injured are male.
A Jodhpur police official gave an account of how it happened as outlined above.
They then gave a brief resume of temple stampedes where many were killed - I think it was 2 others this year, and in previous years.

I was once on the steps of the overhead railway bridge at Jaipur and as you say, you have no choice but to go with the crush and push. It was quite frightening - from that day if there is a huge crowd going where I want to go, I will wait until it eases. That day was a lesson for me.
I'm beginning to think the bomb threat is mis-information.

windrider24584

This syndrome is to reach first wherever it may be on temple, on busy roads turns fatal. Most of the road accidents are due to reckless driving breaking traffic rules.Government should impose strict regulations over allowing/limiting no of people inside a enclosed premise or regarding traffic rules. Crowd management system of Vaishno Devi shrine of Jammu seems the only solution. Release limited permits(parchi) on FCFS basis and rest have to wait or reschedule their trip. System of Sri Jagannath Temple,Puri of charging Rs 25 and that too very few in nos inside the innermost sanctum of the temple has reduced the rush to certain extent. Same goes with places with heritage/historic value. It discourages lot of people to enter inside and thus saves both them and the monument from littering/writing names by irresponsible people.

puchoo

Barely weeks after the tragedy in Himachal..

haydn

Hey windrider,
not fair to impose a fee to commune with the deities! Maybe the problem lies with the medieval infrastructure (gorgeous though it undoubtedly is) in Jodphur. Since the royal family has a special connection to the deity (Chamunda), perhaps they could influence her to appear before the masses in a more suitable venue (like an open square or sports field)?
when i think of those narrow stairways and the crowds i feel sick. especially to know that this is not a unique incident.