Semi-owned property in Goa

York Stiller

I followed this discussion about owning property in Goa for quite a long time and given that it´s nearly impossible for a foreigner to do so without the matching visa or let´s say status in common, I was wondering if maybe there could be another way to set up a registered and legal property ownership in Goa whilst avoiding all the fuss and anger with Indian authorities. Okay, to some here it might sound strange and I´m aware of that, but did you ever thought of a strategic or commercial partnership with a local Goan? Yes, seriously: Why not collaborate with a native Goan for example who is a ground landlord without any other abundance than his piece of land? Why not invest some money, generate a contract, build up a two storied house and share it? Of course you would need the right person for that and you surely would have to incorporate somehow ( how exactely? I needed to find out) or register a mortgage on your partners name with yourself as the privileged creditor, maybe both the same time – I don´t know the juristic way for this kind of action, anyway it should be a possible and, that’s even more of importance, a much less complicated alternative to invest in your own property. Especially when it comes to legal terms.

Well, surely I know that many of you out there don´t know any Goan people besides the hotel staff, some restaurant managers or the friendly guy from the off licence around two corners. And yes, there are no Goans standing on the street and waving with signs saying “ I need an investor, because I want a pool”. However, I know there are quite a lot Goans who run a small shop or are into some little touristing since years and are fed up with their own situation when year after year they work their ass off and it´ll be never enough for not even a decent home with a tiled bathroom, a western style kitchen and a leak-proof roof. They yearn for a way out of their pity, but since no bank ever would issue a credit to them (small merchants), they will be captured in their situation forever and ever. Unless………..?

So, there´s only one question left: What do you think about it?

Any reply is appreciated.

Shaktipalooza

I think wishful thinking doesn't make for a sound investment strategy.

This strategy has been discussed quite a bit already.

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GoanCanuck

This is a good way to lose your investment.

Nick-H

That is a very polite and diplomatic way of putting it!

There is only one person in the world that I am happy to have her name on 'my' property: and that is my wife.

And any objective lawyer would point out that even that is not an absolutely fool-proof solution for everyone.

See the property disputes here between brother and sister, for instance. let alone outside the family.

Any kind of property deal in India has its risks: it is a whole minefield of scams and problems.

And the scammer always has the biggest smile....

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capt_mahajan

A friend's father wanted to retire from Bombay, sell and move back to his village in Kerela. His wife disagreed, and the property was in her name. He lamented being stuck in Bombay till he died.

I often tell my wife that that may be my undoing, too. The house is in her name

York Stiller

Hi guys, thanks for the nice comments. After all I surely understand that you got me wrong, only if you did so deliberately doesn´t conclude to me yet. Truth is, with my posting I never intented to draw up the easiest way to get stony broke within next to no time by investing money in India, and I never stated that I actually want to spread the lakhs all over Goa in good hope of finding a shelter through charity of a Goan family in an apartment which I sponsored in the first place – guess this sums up your thoughts clear enough. But what the heck…? Why these days apparently nobody can read only a few lines thoroughly enough anymore as for to get and to understand the meaning of the actual question within a layout, in this case my one?

In this matter I wrote about corporation, registration, creditor/debitor relations and a judicial way that I don´t know of yet e.g. getting a commercial partnership started. And as far as I do remember I didn´t congratulate to myself as the one who has found an alternative way to (partly) gain a legal property in Goa, but asked what you guys think about it and of course could tell me about the judicial opportunities to install a construction like this. Are there any at all? And besides the often talked of and discussed corrupted legal system in India, are there any chances for a foreigner to enforce the law when it comes down to a sealed an notary drawn up contract?

No, I don´t burn my money through blind investments. And surely I´m not the willing donator for the greedy masses in India who are patiently waiting to get their slice of pie. Only one thing I do have to admit: I found it strange the way you were strictly pushing away only the thought of a collaberation with local Goans immediately and giving reasons by saying it´s the best way to lose your investment. Well, anyone xenophobic ( except a few Indians of course)? I´m not so sure, but I do get this certain feeling we all should start India all over again. It´s 2007 and the country is on the rise. This country has a plan, it has the youth and the strength to succeed in the near future. Anyway, it sounds strange to me when 1.1 Billion people are looked upon as generally bogus and insidious when the talking comes to business. It´s actually ridiculous. To me it sounds more like colonial body of thought, only that nowadays it´s not the plantation but the condo or the apartment that has to be hard-earned. No wonder the Indian authorities have second thoughts about the upcoming investments in Goa given that more and more people want their own property, but better without any Indian interference. In fact, better without Indians at all? And the Brits are in the front line, short followed by the Germans and together mixed with Russians, Israelis, Scandinavians and whoever more. And all of them want a piece of paradise, ha, ha, and most of them don´t even have a glance at the evidential situation they´re faced with. And this is why they don´t get, that their time is just running out. Yes, the party still goes on, but it slightly slows down year after year. There will be changes soon, polictiacally and surely within the populations posture following up thereafter. Believe me, in twenty years nobody ever will or wants to remember the hippies, backpackers, the techno parties and the easy living. Whole Goa will be a resort for the rich, the famous and tourists paying a lot for extravaganza.

Well, I just thought it might be a chance to not only use Goa and it´s inhabitants and the daytallers from all over India as an ongoing party with willing servants, but far away from that start to have some interest in the scenery behind the curtain. And if anyone in this forum assumes wishful thinking in my efforts, I can only answer: You don´t have a clue. Wait for the years to come, look out, see and understand. The paradise is lost already. So why beeing so stuck in a position only for your little shelter in it?

We cannot hide. The people are there and they have questions. We better find answers soon, or this strange dream of Goa adhered from the seventies will dissapear soon enough. Of course, only my opinion. No need to panic.

edwardseco

I followed all the way to this last post. Now I am completely baffled. Wasn't able to make out a single paragraph..

Nick-H

Quite a ramble, York.

But if you think we're all wrong just because we don't think think your idea is a good one --- that's up to you.

Just please consider if you have the same amount of experience of India, living in India, Indian property as some of the people who have answered you.

Heck: you asked, we replied. If you don't like the reply that's tough. I don't think there's anything in your post that is going to make any of us sit back and think that perhaps we got it wrong.

We all know that it is possible for a foreigner to set up a company here, and that that company can legally own property. Just remember that it has to be a genuine trading company, not a company having the prime purpose of owning your house.

You mentioned about things changing. Yes, the politics of Goa, in particular, are indeed changing, and firmly in the direction of anti-foreign ownership. The visa situation is also hardening at this time.

Buying 'in partnership' used to be one of the ways to do it. Doesn't seem to be very popular any longer --- maybe it worked under previous legislation. Certainly people got stung.

As to seeking the protection of the Indian courts... to put it very bluntly, hah, bloody hah! Read Dicken's Bleak House --- its like that here still. People can just keep the whole situation in court, if it suits them, for years and years.

Don't think we're deaf to ideas. Ideas are welcome. But we can't look at ideas without looking at what's wrong with them.

Don't shoot the messenger!

capt_mahajan

Isn't all this covered in the goa property threads?

GoanCanuck

One way to own a house is to start a company and build a guesthouse where you would occupy the top floor rooms and the ground floor rooms would be rented out to tourists. You could even have a restaurant on the ground floor. Many foreigners have used this route and made a decent amount of money but with the increase in prices this option has become more costly.

crvlvr

There are many ways a foreigner can invest in property in India. But, outright ownership is not allowed unless the invest meets govt of India requirements . Any other investment with an Indian partner comes with risks that do not favor the foreign investor. Also, the rents compared to the investment required would be less than 10%. The only only solace is property appreciation. However, the govt prevents any gains when the property is sold from being repatriated/converted into foreign currency.

cyberhippie

York makes a fair point, (remember English is not his first language) there are of course ways to make this happen, I have several people I would allow to buy property in my name (with seperate afidavit)

However a word of caution York, in my expereince signing up with the right "friend" isn't always the end of the story!! Things change, people pass away. I've heard several accounts of people who bought in good faith with and Indian friend. Things went great never a problem between the two parties. Then said friend passed away leaving several people with their eyes on your property. Things didn't go well after that and people lost their residences!!

There are other more successful stories, so yes it can be done, just go in with your eyes open!!

Actually how about somewhere else in India, perhaps there are less pitfalls elswhere.

kmalik

York - It is abundantly clear that the ownership of property by foreigners (with appropriate exceptions) is not legal. The kind of "corporation" you allude to exists for the sole purpose for getting around this requirement and is, therefore, a sham. I know that's not what you said, but it is reasonably inferred from the things you did say in your post, including the target population of business partners you outlined.

Could you (or others with the same motivation) persuade some (properly bribed) officials to get past the intent of the law through such a stratagem ? May be. Could the same or different officials interpret the situation differently at another time and find such corporation to be sham? Possibly. If that were to happen, would you lose your "investment"? Very likely. Could a change of mind on the part of your "partner" cause you to lose your investment or otherwise require you to petition the Indian legal system? Possibly. If you want to proceed, do you need the permission of people on this forum ? Definitely not. Caveat emptor!

If one or more of the problems does happen, just do not write back how thankless and uncivilized Indian government and people are and how poor the legal system is to land you in such conundrum.

PS: I for one fail to see the attraction. Is the purpose of the "investment" to benefit from the rise in Indian (Goan) real estate values. There must be legal investment funds that allow a more diversified investment to achieve this objective...

capt_mahajan

and, if i may add... will your property and business partnership papers bear greately increased scrutiny because of political pressures in Goa?

That is part of what is happening now.