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Foreign owned property in Goa, (Part One)


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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 11:58   #121
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then again..the cdrakes, steves and the cliffs..dont want to listen to that. sure quote FEMA and go to court but then dont complain if the case takes 25 years or probably goes beyond your lifetime.
While I can easily ignore this provocation, I neither quoted rulebooks , nor thought it particularly easy to find good people through whom to deal in the indian real estate market.

I merely said that it's possible to demystify it somewhat for people that are willing to learn the basics.

That does not imply that a webforum will solve everybody's realestate problems, or that the advice people recieve here will make professional help unnescesary.

Just that maybe people will get better informed about indian real estate(or whatever) ...unless you have a problem with that, green chutney?
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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 12:01   #122
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Thumbs up I found a few Rules and Regulations

RBI, after a bit more legwork:
Reg. 5 (b)
Person who is required to obtain RBI's Permission:

A Person Resident outside India who has been permitted to establish a branch, office or any other place of business in India (excluding a liaison office).

Nature of Transactions/ Property which requires RBIs Permission:

To transfer any property in India (other than by way of mortgage to an Authorised Dealer as a security for any borrowing).

Person who is required to obtain RBI's Permission:

Any person resident outside India (other than an NRI or a PIO) i.e. any foreign national resident outside India.
(Note: The regulations do not grant any general permission to such a person to acquire an immovable property in India.
Therefore, such a person would also require RBI's permission to acquire an immovable property in India). Reg.8

Person who is required to obtain RBI's Permission:

Any Non-Individual Person (i.e. a company or a firm etc.) resident outside India.

Nature of Transactions/ Property which requires RBIs Permission:

To acquire or transfer an immovable property in India (other than a lease not exceeding 5 years).Sec. 6(3)(i)
It will be thus apparent from the above that all transactions involving acquisition or transfer of immovable property in India by a person residing outside India (as well as by certain persons who are citizens of certain neighbouring countries) require prior permission from RBI.

I. Regulations / Directions issued by Reserve Bank of India

Q.1 Where can one find regulations / directions issued by Reserve Bank for acquisition and transfer of immovable property in India by a person resident outside India ?

A.1 Regulations regarding acquisition and transfer of immovable property in India by a person residentoutside India have been notified vide RBI Notification No.FEMA 21/2000-RB dated May 3, 2000 as amended by Notification No.FEMA 64/2002-RB dated June 29, 2002, Notification No.FEMA 65/2002-RB dated June 29, 2002 and Notification No.FEMA 93/2003-RB dated June 6, 2003 and relevant directions issued in the form of A.P. (DIR Series) Circulars. These are available on RBI website: www.fema.rbi.org.in.

Which brings us to Resident Status.

Q.52 Where are the terms a `person resident in India' and a `person resident outside India' defined ?

A.52 Section 2 (v) and Section 2 (w) of the FEMA, 1999 defines `person resident in India' and a `person resident outside India' respectively.

Q.53 What is meant by a person resident in India ?

A.53 From FEMA angle, a person resident in India means a person residing in India for more than
one hundred and eighty-two days during the course of the preceding financial year (April-March) and who has come to or stays in India either for taking up employment, carrying on business or vocation in India or for any other purpose, that would indicate his intention to stay in India for an uncertain period. In other words, to be treated as `a person resident in India' under FEMA a person has not only to satisfy the condition of the period of stay (being more than 182 days during the course of the preceding financial year) but has also to comply with the condition of the purpose / intention of stay.

Q.54 Does Reserve Bank determine the residential status of a person for the purpose of acquisition of immovable property in India ?

A.54 No. Under FEMA residential status is determined by operation of law. The onus is on an individual to prove his / her residential status if question by any other authority.

Q.55 If a foreign national (except a citizen of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, China, Iran, Nepal and Bhutan) is a person resident in India as per the provisions of Section (v) (i)B of the FEMA, 1999 does he require approval of RBI to purchase any immovable property in India ?

A.55 No, he does not require approval from Reserve Bank from FEMA angle. However, approvals if any, required in terms of regulations prescribed by other authorities such as the concerned State Government etc. will have to be obtained by him / her.

I think I've covered most of it. If anyone finds anything wrong here, please feel free to correct.


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Last edited by goangoangone : Jun 14th, 2006 at 12:31. Reason: Tidying up
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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 12:29   #123
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I find this talk of scaremongering a bit nonsensical. It's not scaremongering to point out that if you haven't purchased the property within the law you may fall foul of Goan state Law. That's just the facts, you can live in denial if you like!!

Also the glib statement that if you just set up a company you are eligible to buy a property, not true, the Goan goverment is also looking long and hard at what actually constitiutes a company, do you pay taxes, do you employ local people. To quote a goverment official, a beach shack with a local partner might not swing it anymore!!
The RBI will also want to know more about your business, if you furnish them with false info about your company, this also constitutes a breach of the rules!!

The people here on the Goa expat side may well be legal (or not, just because a lawyer says everything is fine doesn't mean it is!!) I have no comment to make on that, as I don't know your circumstances. However the stance you have taken on this discussion is an odd one, you seem to be denying the existance of the people who struck dodgy deals to get a toehold in Goa, furthermore it seems you hold in question the right of the Goan goverment to act in these cases!!

This isn't a situation born of fantasy, these problems are real and IMHO should be investigated and if parties are found wanting well so be it, they will have to be punished in some way! I'm afraid the old chestnut of "I wasn't correctly informed of the law won't protect you here" it would be considered a weak defence in any wrangle over the law!
I know Goa very very well and frankly if you shove through a holiday home deal on a two week package holiday well I'm afraid your asking for it, the locals will spot you a mile away and take great delight in fleecing you, as well as the army of dodgy lawyers who set up these grey market deals!!

I also question the motives of someone who buys on a whim just because it's cheap and a good investment!! This type of buyer never gets good press from the locals, as they are usually wholly disinterested in the place where they buy, it's a pure cash deal with an eye to making cash!! Contributing and integration seem to be the last thing on anyone's mind!!

If you think buying in Goa is simply a case of approaching a lawyer and trusting his every word, think again, India is India and all is not what it seems, the problem of clear title under Goan law only excaberates this. A friend a Bangalorean and very succesful business man was looking to buy an old house in Goa he searched for three years and eventually gave up, saying buying in Goa was a minefield!!

Lastly confiscations, are they likely, well I can't say for sure but I know this tool is employed in illegal structures frequently, with no recourse!! So whilst I agree it may be unlikely I would not rule it out!!
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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 12:40   #124
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Originally Posted by cdrake
People come to "free" internet boards because (believe it or not) there ARE people that will help...for free(gasp!!). But fewer people will come if all people that reply have attitudes like yours, GC.
Actually the people who took offense didn't come here for free advice on whether and how foreigners can buy real property in India. They entered an on-going discussion of increased governmental scrutiny of property transactions by people who weren't qualified to purchase under FEMA or the RBI rules. The people who took offense acted as if the discussion of restrictions on purchases by foreigners amounted to an accusation that THEY PERSONALLY had done something wrong. Since none of us knew squat about the transactions that Steve and June or Karen and Cliff, for example, may have been involved in, or whether they qualified somehow under the FEMA and RBI rules, how could our general discussion have amounted to personal accusations against THEM? But these folks acted as if they did.

When a person asks questions to the effect of "why shouldn't I be allowed to purchase a little retirement property in Goa just because I'm a foreigner?" and other people point out that that's just the way the rules are if you only hold a tourist visa and don't fall into some FEMA or RBI category that permits such a purchase, and the first person then gets all hot under the collar and starts insisting "I've done nothing illegal, I consulted a lawyer, I formed a business" - well, such protestations just smack of a guilty conscience. No one else made any accusations of wrongdoing against the individuals who chose to take offense. But they almost implicitely accused themselves by their vociferous protestations of innocence, and then lashed out at others who were just talking generally about what the law IS, not accusing THEM, personally, of having violated it.

As a number of people have pointed out, if the foreigners who apparently have bought property are confident that they qualified in some way, shape or form under FEMA and the RBI rules, fine; but they shouldn't get into a high dudgeon because other people are pointing out that those FEMA and RBI regulations DO APPLY and that foreigners contemplating the purchase of real property in India would be well-advised to get COMPETENT advice on whether and how they can comply with them.
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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 12:41   #125
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well said CH

my underlying sense here is this. i am an indian living in india and contemplating buying in goa. i would not buy anything without due diligence... more than due because, as you say, buying in goa (coz inheritance laws) is a minefield.

if i would not buy within two weeks, any foreigner buying within a month is going to be up the creek without a poodle!!
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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 12:43   #126
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well said CH.

and feel free to research what happened at ulhasnagar [a distant suburb of bombay] not too long..eight months ago?... what a mess!


largest urban demolition picks up pace


the case who knows where its stuck..courts [high, supreme, god]? state assemblies? municipalities?

there might be better news sources for the above case..you should be able to dig all the details through google. dodgy builders, local beaurocrats, mafia, seedy politicians all in cahoots...doesnt happen everywhere..but it could happen to you?

ladyluck might be stuck in traffic or stopped at immigration..or she might drop out comatose in the future!
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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 12:50   #127
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and well said dzibead too.

i only insist again, with all due respect to other peoples money, that these other people get, as you say, competent advice.

not just advice which they want to hear.
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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 12:51   #128
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Thanks for the clarification everyone, dzi, my point was only that if we struck to "informative" and not "combative" people OTHER than the two couples (that picked fights for being wrong?) might learn something from all your knowledge.

Thank you gone goan.
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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 12:54   #129
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I'm just trying to keep up to date with it all myself.

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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 14:42   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goangoangone
This is not an argument. Nobody is scaremongering. This is, or should I say was, a discussion about reports in Goan newspapers about what is happening in Goa right now. If you are happy with what your lawyer has told you, then all well and good but don't advise others "not to worry." They should consult their own lawyers.
I also don't think any properties will be confiscated, but my lawyer informs me that property has been confiscated in Mumbai. Call him a liar if you wish. It would not be in the interests of the developing Indian economy to be seen to be playing with foreigners' property, and not good for Goa's tourist industry image. If you've read these threads properly,you will have seen my earlier post that the Indian Govt. is under a lot of pressure from some European and Commonwealth countries to loosen up and clarify the law on foriegners buying in India. There will be an amendment to FEMA in the next 6 months. I was told by the Home Dept. that they are desperate to clean up the mafia drug business currently out of control in the North. There are bundles of black money pouring in to Goa. This is what they're really after.
Also cdrake is correct with his comments regarding the setting up of businesses retrospectively to purchase property.
And, for what it's worth, my interest here is that I'm sitting in a 2 bed flat on an "Agreement of Sale."

I Notice now that a lot of the replies now are going into a lot more detail about the situation.We appreciate that and all the trouble taken by everyone.We will be reading your replies intently. Thanks for all your concern !
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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 14:54   #131
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I'm not certain how much of this is relevant but I've dug out some more:

5. Acquisition of Immovable Property for carrying on a permitted activity:-

A person resident outside India who has established in India in accordance with the Foreign Exchange Management (Establishment in India of Branch or Office or other Place of Business) Regulations, 2000, a branch, office or other place of business for carrying on in India any activity, excluding a liaison office, may –
a) acquire any immovable property in India, which is necessary for or incidental to carrying on such activity;

Provided that

i) all applicable laws, rules, regulations or directions for the time being in force are duly complied with; and

ii) the person files with the Reserve Bank a declaration in the form IPI annexed to these regulations, not later than ninety days from the date of such acquisition;

b) transfer by way of mortgage to an authorised dealer as a security for any borrowing, the immovable property acquired in pursuance of clause (a)

http://rbidocs.rbi.org.in/rdocs/noti...PDFs/13272.pdf

I can't find, at the moment, any amendments that are relevant to these.


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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 15:12   #132
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Originally Posted by goangoangone
I'm not certain how much of this is relevant but I've dug out some more:

5. Acquisition of Immovable Property for carrying on a permitted activity:-

A person resident outside India who has established in India in accordance with the Foreign Exchange Management (Establishment in India of Branch or Office or other Place of Business) Regulations, 2000, a branch, office or other place of business for carrying on in India any activity, excluding a liaison office, may –
a) acquire any immovable property in India, which is necessary for or incidental to carrying on such activity;

Provided that

i) all applicable laws, rules, regulations or directions for the time being in force are duly complied with; and

ii) the person files with the Reserve Bank a declaration in the form IPI annexed to these regulations, not later than ninety days from the date of such acquisition;

b) transfer by way of mortgage to an authorised dealer as a security for any borrowing, the immovable property acquired in pursuance of clause (a)

http://rbidocs.rbi.org.in/rdocs/noti...PDFs/13272.pdf

I can't find, at the moment, any amendments that are relevant to these.


Thanks for your reply GoanGone
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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 15:22   #133
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Originally Posted by goangoangone
I'm not certain how much of this is relevant but I've dug out some more:

5. Acquisition of Immovable Property for carrying on a permitted activity:-

A person resident outside India who has established in India in accordance with the Foreign Exchange Management (Establishment in India of Branch or Office or other Place of Business) Regulations, 2000, a branch, office or other place of business for carrying on in India any activity, excluding a liaison office, may –
a) acquire any immovable property in India, which is necessary for or incidental to carrying on such activity;

Provided that

i) all applicable laws, rules, regulations or directions for the time being in force are duly complied with; and

ii) the person files with the Reserve Bank a declaration in the form IPI annexed to these regulations, not later than ninety days from the date of such acquisition;

b) transfer by way of mortgage to an authorised dealer as a security for any borrowing, the immovable property acquired in pursuance of clause (a)

http://rbidocs.rbi.org.in/rdocs/noti...PDFs/13272.pdf

I can't find, at the moment, any amendments that are relevant to these.


Sorry about that short reply (pressed the wrong button)
I read that part of FEMA last week and I just hope it covers us !
We have had alot of sleepless nights over the last year funnily enough this morning we just got a letter from our developer to see if we want to buy another property.I think we will give that a miss for now !!
We just hope everything will turn out ok in the end .
Once again thanks to everyone for taking the trouble with their detailed replies !! CHEERS!
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Old Jun 14th, 2006, 17:37   #134
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I'm sure most people will be OK. As a friend says, "As long as I've got the key to the door, it's mine"

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Old Jun 16th, 2006, 03:28   #135
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Thumbs down I found a legal team to give me correct advice a little knowlege is dangerous

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt_mahajan
well said CH

my underlying sense here is this. i am an indian living in india and contemplating buying in goa. i would not buy anything without due diligence... more than due because, as you say, buying in goa (coz inheritance laws) is a minefield.

if i would not buy within two weeks, any foreigner buying within a month is going to be up the creek without a poodle!!

After all the usless and incorrect adivce I got on Sunday from this forum I decided to contact a legal team in Goa looks like you are all not often right and you were wrong again guy's

PLEASE READ CORRECT INFORMATION BELOW


Since the Goa Government Cautioned about foreign national buying properties in Goa, we have been receiving various inquires/queries from the foreign national’s who have already purchased properties in Goa and who are intending to purchase in future.

Our legal department has made enquires with our legal panel lawyers and government departments and they are of the opinion that:-

If you have purchased property in India as per the rule laid down by R.B.I (Reserve Bank of India) as per F.E.M.A (Foreign Exchange Management Act. 1999, which states that 182 days stay in India is compulsory in one preceding financial year commencing 1st April to 31st March. If you have not violated the above rule laid down R.B.I under F.E.M.A, than in such case the government cannot confiscate your property purchased in Goa/India.

It has been noticed by the Goa Government that many of the foreign national’s who has purchase properties in Goa, has violated the rule laid down by R.B.I under F.E.M.A, by conveying property in their name without fulfilling above regulation. This has happened because; most of the foreign national’s who have been advised wrongly by various agents and solicitors regarding purchase of property in Goa. The scrutiny of those documents is in progress, until such time Goa Government has stop the registration of the properties by the foreign national’s in Goa.

However you can still register a property if you are purchasing by company’s name, if the said company is formed in Goa/India and registered it in Goa/India as per company’s registration Act 1956 and if you have obtained a business visa. You need to swear an affidavit stating that you have fulfilled all the norms laid down under Indian law related to purchase of immovable property in Goa/India.

We will keep you informed about progress in the above matter through our monthly newsletter.

Thanking you,
Yours sincerely,
For Homes & Estates Consultancy Services,
Chandrakant Kundaikar
Law Officer

I really hope this will help the people that are in our position but have set up legitamate companies in Goa
regards
Karen and Cliff
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