Foreign owned property in Goa, (Part One)

crvlvr

What I find interesting is many foreign buyers feel comfortable with their transaction after beinf reassured by the seller, lawyer etc. Noe of these guys can guaantee anything -- especially lawyers. As difficult as it may be to do -- do the research on the laws and protect yourself without relying on sellers, middlemen lawyers etc. Taking a lawyer's advice in India in no guartantee that you arre in compliance with the law. Most of them don't know, or don't care about the law and know that they will only make more money if you have legal tourbles later. Yes, as hard as it is to belive, a lot of "professionals" in India are crooks too. In many cases, they have accepted payoffs from the opposite party and given their client's advice that would actually benefit that opposite party.

Anders

Does anyone expect that any houses will actually be confiscated?

Goandentist

I would not expect the Governement to take away any properties from anyone. At the most they might say that you must sell the property ( you will still make a huge profit ,I promise you) , pay the government some kind of a penalty and that would be the end of it.

We as Goans are warm and loving people. Creating problems for tourists is not something we do and everyone in the tourist trade including me will tell you the same thing. You bring 500 pounds to spend on your holiday, the Goan people will treat you like a KING. You do the same thing in England and no one really cares ! Ours is a new developing economy and I see a multi-racial socitey in Goa in the next 5 years. For all you guys who think we dont want to have you people in Goa, you got it all wrong .

You all are most welcome . " KARIBUNI " as they say in Swahili


The property prices in Calangute and Candolim especially have skyrocketed thanks to the influx of tourists buying homes. Prices seem to rise 40 - 50% in less than a year ; dont think any money sitting in the bank can earn you that much ! There is so little " open land " left in these areas that we look like " Bombay " today ; a concrete jungle.

I blame unscruplous builders, lawyers and estate agents the whole lot. Throw them all in the slammer. My heart goes out to you guys, but I am sure "NO ONE" will have their properties taken from them.



Footnote : You cannot buy property in Goa on a Tourist Visa

The terms and conditions of any tourist visa states the following :

" For holiday visit only. No employment permitted with or without pay ". A little common sense would say you cant do anything else except have a good time !

__________________
Dr. Ambert Pimenta
www.goadentist.com

The India Mike Dental thread

greenchutney

thats not what we thought in zimbabwe

wait! thats not the right analogy. apologies!..

who knows with unscrupulous politicans, land sharks and mafia around? wouldnt be surprised if the underworld makes a move there? bombay is saturated, highest its ever been and goa is six hours away!.

....tring tring dawood..send you chela [favorite among the personal posse..] to check on goa please...

Steve and June

If anyone outside India (who is currently buying property)is worried about losing their money,please take no notice of all this scaremongering!
Please read the Foreign Exchange Management Act 1999.This will tell you that a company set up in India can purchase an immovable object .
Since posting our initial response a few days ago to test the water on this site we have received negative comments!
{a notable exception GOANDENTIST)
I was always told when somebody gets personal during an argument they are usually losing that argument !
No Doubt this posting will get some personal abuse .
I thought this site was for people to give advice and help.
Perhaps we were Wrong.
If our comments have helped one person , it has been worth it !

cdrake

I'm almost impossibly late to chime in on this thread, but This is my thirty cents.


TITLE:

All property bought and sold in india is somewhat troublesome in the area of law. If it's not clear titles and taxes paid ON PURCHASE, it's about clear title and transmission thereof ON SALE.

Unlike ...um...zimbabwe...the government almost never acts to enforce title, so you could live out your retirement (and end your life) on property whose title is bad, because noone tested it out in a court of law. It will only matter, if someone trying to buy from you does the due dilligence and finds problems.

Can you bribe people into giving you the right (official) documents? NOT the RBI but sure the local registration people can be bribed.

I guess you can also pay protection...or sell the property for less to people that you could pay protection to.

RBI and repatriation:

If you have all your RBI clearances IN WRITING and before the transaction, as a foreigner/Non resident indian you should have nothing to worry about regarding RBI rules. You cannot, however write out a check to a realestate developer/seller AND THEN make noises about bringing in investment into india so you are entitled to get the permission. the money will be treated as if you brought it into the country illegally by the RBI. I'm not sure what can be done to correct that, because it would depend on each individual case.

About buying branch offices for corporate entities, I remember a quote from the RBI directive that talks about PRIOR RBI PERMISSION..so you might want to check that out.

A word about scare mongering. Would you rather be safe ? or would you rather put all your money into a house in goa and discover that someone sold you the brooklyn bridge?

And people that reacted adversely to steve and june making comparisons between the UK and India, The UK is not India, for many reasons, One of them, probably , is that no indian in his right mind would pension in the UK, unless he has some emotional ties with the UK. While it is true that there are plenty of "free" social services in the UK, a person investing a couple of hundered pounds to BE in the UK can easily buy the best social/medical care in india. hell with 200,000 pounds, you can buy many PEOPLE in india

Finally a word to Steve and june. The usual response from the beurocracy to a comment like "we're bringing in capital...spending on the economy...etc" will get you "then buy in underdeveloped bihar. we have plenty of buyers who can do the official thing in goa, thank you".

crvlvr

TO my knowledge, the govt of India has confisticated property for the following reasons:

1. For the greater public good -- If the location of the property is deemed better utilized as a road, bridge etc. In these cases the owner is compensated. There has been cases where the compensation took years to come

2. In some states if the transfer value of the property is understated (typically done to save taxes) the govt reserves the right to purchase the property at that price.

In this particular situation, the govt need not confisticate the property. The seller may be able to claim that the sale of the property to the foreigner was illegal. The ownership of the property would revert back to the previous (Indian) owner and the buyer would have to take measures to recover any losses.

IMHO, all this just opens up a huge number of opportunities for corrupt govt officials to fleece the people who are affected involved and politicians to gain political capital.

webtraveller

You are absolutely right "dzibead". Infact, even the too legitimate transactions have backfired. A huge 200 apartment complex in banglore had the same problems. The 200 odd buyers thought they are doing a legitimate tx. A court has given the verdict infavor of the original owner of the land and the apt complexes were ordered for demolishion. But a stay has been given. It is still in courts. The owners have spent more money to the lawyers than on the apt itself. Pretty old story. But can repeat.

Totally wrong. It is just not the FEMA Act. The interpretation and the condition (the time) of interpretation what matters, once it is entangled in legal matters. Just having a business in India is not enough. Act is only a broader principle. The guide lines and the interpretation varies. If a precedent is set in a case, then you can give it as a reference, otherwise, it is still speculative.


Yes Anders, There are thousands of cases. Only including a professor who came on visiting professor (for 6 months) to Vizag and bought a home from a reputed builder and all in trouble. He did not lose 100%. He got back about 80% after all the sweat. But that's not worth it.


Rightly said crvlvr. But there are several other reasons too.
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Finally


I think most of the IMers who are cautioning are not trying to scare. We as a close knit community of 9000 odd members want to protect others. Hope you understand. If you still want to purchase on a 6 month visitor visa. It is your prerogative. We dont be there with you in the Registrar obstructing your signature ceremony. Good luck!!

goangoangone

This is not an argument. Nobody is scaremongering. This is, or should I say was, a discussion about reports in Goan newspapers about what is happening in Goa right now. If you are happy with what your lawyer has told you, then all well and good but don't advise others "not to worry." They should consult their own lawyers.
I also don't think any properties will be confiscated, but my lawyer informs me that property has been confiscated in Mumbai. Call him a liar if you wish. It would not be in the interests of the developing Indian economy to be seen to be playing with foreigners' property, and not good for Goa's tourist industry image. If you've read these threads properly,you will have seen my earlier post that the Indian Govt. is under a lot of pressure from some European and Commonwealth countries to loosen up and clarify the law on foriegners buying in India. There will be an amendment to FEMA in the next 6 months. I was told by the Home Dept. that they are desperate to clean up the mafia drug business currently out of control in the North. There are bundles of black money pouring in to Goa. This is what they're really after.
Also cdrake is correct with his comments regarding the setting up of businesses retrospectively to purchase property.
And, for what it's worth, my interest here is that I'm sitting in a 2 bed flat on an "Agreement of Sale."

__________________
GoanGoan......here

capt_mahajan

hey, when it is difficult to manage property properly from five hundred miles away, what would make anybody get into a non-airtight deal from five thousand miles?

greenchutney

when i have a lots of money, the english winter cloudiness sucks, its cold, its deary, its rainy! heck ya...get me out of here!!

people dont realise though how tough the real estate scene is in india. the builders are unscruplous, the beaurocracy is easily workable...i can bribe someone to write your apt in my name .all i need prolly is a fake electricity bill!..and maybe even not that! do you know that many people dont let out their apartments?..the squatters have a lot of power.

you are not given going to be there all during the indian summer...hmmmmmmmmm
...so whats the address steve and june?..karen and cliff? we'll bribe the security

cdrake

greenchutney and others,

IF I can make a request, please restrain yourself from adding slightly provocative comments such as :

I understand where you are comin from , but really, most people that ask questions about methods of investing in india etc(sply where big sums of money are involved) are looking to factual kinds of replies, and don't AT ALL want to indulge in debate...or get our opinions alone.

It may be OBVIOUS to us that something is the wrong course of action to undertake, but I think we should better tell them the facts and let them make their own judgements.

ON a travel forum, people that know stuff owe only that much to people asking for advice.

This will also ensure that if people get unsavory advice, they'll not think it's malice on the part of posters ..and react like they're personally insulted because their ideas are contradicted..

(this is my personal opinion, and people can disagree if they want to..)

greenchutney

too bad for those people then. investing in realestate in india is not a joke. and people can quote whatever law they want..they have to know the street scene. and a lot of us are speaking this out of personal experience. yes my friends were threatened by the mafia, yes i had friends who's apt had squatters and they had to go through hell and more hell to get them out..and yes we have had builders who put the most 'flimsiest' structures that would develop water leaks right in the very first month after moving in.

sure go sit the court..it will prolly take you 50 years or more to sort your case just like it would take the time in the NHS to get that operative appointment of mine....

chill out cdrake... if you dont have a sense of humour, go find some.

since you are investing huge amounts of money, fine..go hire a lawyer, not come to a free internet board to get that advice.

cdrake

So maybe they shouldn't invest with YOUR friends..and find someone more reliable...and trustworthy.

People come to "free" internet boards because (believe it or not) there ARE people that will help...for free(gasp!!). But fewer people will come if all people that reply have attitudes like yours, GC.

greenchutney

sure..forget the locals, for the non-citizens/outsiders, it is very easy to find reliable, trustworthy builders just like they 'may' back at home and understand the local scene as well. be my guest for those folks is all i say.

some of my friends got burnt in the real estate scene. they are normal average middle class folks who were in the market or owned apts that were let out or lived in prime property where the local mafia chased them out. these are real stories.

then again..the cdrakes, steves and the cliffs..dont want to listen to that. sure quote FEMA and go to court but then dont complain if the case takes 25 years or probably goes beyond your lifetime.