Foreign owned property in Goa, (Part One)

greenchutney · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt_mahajan

I am confused. Are foreigners cleaning Goa's beaches now?

there is a foreignerdevi temple in case you missed it captain..its right there by the beach in anjuna....

all indians should start worshipping foreignerdevi. she cleans beaches, she teaches indians manners, she wipes corruption with a wand...she is our saviour~~~~~.....

and foreignerdevi has a consort too....and his temple is being built at the beach in palolem right now.

capt_mahajan · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjuna

ignorance is bliss eh

No, sometimes it is oblivion.

sirensongs · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:24

Quote:

and his temple is being built at the beach in palolem right now.

Well if it's anything like the temples in neighboring Kerala (among other places), "Foreigners" will *not* be allowed!

greenchutney · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirensongs

Well if it's anything like the temples in neighboring Kerala (among other places), "Foreigners" will *not* be allowed!

ofcourse not. foreignerdevi and her consort are teaching indians stuff.......why should foreigners who know everything need to get darshan and receive 'prasad'....they are the royal and holy relatives of these dieties.....nope~...

sirensongs · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:34

You'd never know it from the local norms, but there are myriad ways to relate to individuals other than the two extremes of either reviling them, or worshipping them. How about just listening to what they say and relating to them as... people? What a concept. They deserve neither special rights, nor to be especially singled out for punishment. And just maybe, what they say has validity regardless of their perceived identity. Just a thought.

anjuna · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:34

You're right, I can only imagine the crap Indians have to go through to get a UK visa, that's why they'd be better getting to France and jumping on a boat or likewise. The place is being taken over by people who do that so it can't be that hard to achieve, and it certainly sounds easier than going through the correct chanels. Also, it takes about 6 years to for immigration to deal with your case, so you don't really need a long term visa!

And my son is not at boarding school at all, and last year I had a years visa and my son had a 1 year X visa, that's why he was already enrolled in the school. Oh yeah, and I worked in an international school in London, they had no problem staying for the duration of their education (obviously with the correct paperwork) and, indeed, they went on to further education in the UK. So it's not completely impossible.

I don't know why people would want to go there anyway, why do you think we're all here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzibead

You obviously have no clue whatsoever about what Indians have to go through to try to get a visa to visit the UK. You think they just have to "have the right documents" and show that they can support themselves and they're in the door? Pardon me while I fall off my chair laughing! You also seem to think this would be sufficient not only to get a tourist visa, but also an immigration visa, which is even more ridiculous. And Indians certainly aren't allowed to enter and stay simply because they might have a kid who's on a student visa and enrolled in a school in the U.K.

As for your your original post, your indignation at being limited to a 6-month tourist visa seems entirely unjustified. It appears that your 8-year-old is probably in a boarding school in Goa. If so, why does he need to have mummy around for a full year? If he's not in a boarding school (and has to have you around full-time because he's not living with friends or relatives), then what the heck were you thinking when you enrolled him there, knowing that you're not eligible for any class of visa other than a 6-month tourist visa? Or is this just some new dodge to get around the immigration laws: enroll your child in a school then whine that he's too young to be there alone, so the authorities have to let you stay longer than you would otherwise be entitled to? Well, please don't enroll your kid in a school in the U.S. and try this. You'll be in for a rude awakening.

anjuna · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:36

well said

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirensongs

You'd never know it from the local norms, but there are myriad ways to relate to individuals other than the two extremes of either reviling them, or worshipping them. How about just listening to what they say and relating to them as... people? What a concept. They deserve neither special rights, nor to be especially singled out for punishment. And just maybe, what they say has validity regardless of their perceived identity. Just a thought.

crvlvr · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjuna

My son goes to school in Goa and has done for the last two years, when I applied for his student visa in London he was granted it (almost) immediately without questions, but I was told I could only have a 6 month tourist visa. After pointing out that this is really a very stupid thing to do

- Thats exactly hoe a visa to the US works too. Student visa are limited to the length of the program, tourist visa are limitsed to 180 days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjuna

It only means that I will now spend money going away on holiday, money that otherwise would have been spent in Goa.

- all tourist visas (even the 10 year multiple entry visas) to Indian milit the stay to 180 days per visit. This information is clearly indicated on all the related websites

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjuna

Have the Goans forgot that it was us foreigners who actually made Goa the popular place it is today, don't they realise that the huge majority of the population here survive on the tourism trade in one way or another, the same as they do from foreigners who are based here long term.

- the number of Indian tourists who visit Goa far exceed the foreign tourists. So , the hospitality industry will survive without the foreign business. If the foreigners made Goa, as you so claim, then it should be able to re-create a Goa somewhere else, if they feel unwelcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjuna

The corruption in this country is diabolical, Goans should stop moaning about foreigners and start doing something about the state of affairs with their government who have allowed foreigners to buy so much land.

By that rationale, its illegal to go over the speed limit in the US. Is it the govt's fault that people speed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjuna

.. the area where I own my house is 80% Asian, so are all the businesses. It doesn't bother us so why does it bother you?

you must be forgetting that the British were already the "guests" in India for 200 years. Obviously, that leaves the Indians a little more aprehensive/suspicious when the British start returning..

capt_mahajan · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:46

I am not trying to be argumentative or personal here, and I dont think I was earlier either. Neither am I an advocate in any way for restricting foreigners in legitimate pursuits in India.

However, I find blanket assumptions (Indians will dirty beaches if the foreigner's leave) tiresome. Whatever foreigners are doing or not doing in Goa, they are not sentinels of the beaches there, or keepers of any faith.

I am well aware of frustrations that arise across and between nationalities. More than most, I think. I have been a traveller all my adult life.

I don't need to contribute anymore to a us vs them argument.

Enough said.

greenchutney · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirensongs

You'd never know it from the local norms, but there are myriad ways to relate to individuals other than the two extremes of either reviling them, or worshipping them. How about just listening to what they say and relating to them as... people? What a concept. They deserve neither special rights, nor to be especially singled out for punishment. And just maybe, what they say has validity regardless of their perceived identity. Just a thought.

well said..nothing with folks who are normal people

however

when they sit on the perch/podium (and lecture), i am afraid your options are limited.

anjuna · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:47

The law gets broken everywhere, but what hope is there when the police are not as dedicated to solving crimes and punishing criminals as they are to taking money off people for nothing. If you drive over the speed limit in England you pay a huge fine and get points on your licence, if you do it again you lose your license for a year, there's no chance of offering them a five pound note and walking away!

sirensongs · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:48

Quote:

- If the foreigners made Goa, as you so claim, then it should be able to re-create a Goa somewhere else, if they feel unwelcome.

Sort of like saying, the Chinese made Chinatown; now the Italians want to take it over ("we're the real Americans") so the Chinese should leave if they feel unwelcome. Why should they be made to feel unwelcome in the first place? Chinatown has its unique character because of the Chinese, Goa has its unique character because of a confluence of things, especially foreign influence.

Sorry, I have not been able to follow this thread in every twist and lengthy turn but - just for the record, I think it is irresponsible for foreigners to bend rules in order to buy property or stay in any country. I also disagree with foreigners/immigrants being prosecuted for things that everyone else is doing, simply because they are foreign; in India or anywhere else.

anjuna · Oct 13th, 2006, 00:57

Foreigners don't know everything, on the contrary, they know nothing really, and even when they think they do know something the rules are changed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenchutney

ofcourse not. foreignerdevi and her consort are teaching indians stuff.......why should foreigners who know everything need to get darshan and receive 'prasad'....they are the royal and holy relatives of these dieties.....nope~...

crvlvr · Oct 13th, 2006, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjuna

If you drive over the speed limit in England you pay a huge fine and get points on your licence, if you do it again you lose your license for a year, there's no chance of offering them a five pound note and walking away!

Exactly.. The point i was trying to make, is that the govt cannot prevent the crime, whether is is speeding in England or land buying in India. If land transaction in India is illegal, the govt can only take remedial measures after it is discovered. Which is what they are doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirensongs

Sort of like saying, the Chinese made Chinatown; now the Italians want to take it over ("we're the real Americans") so the Chinese should leave if they feel unwelcome. Why should they be made to feel unwelcome in the first place? Chinatown has its unique character because of the Chinese, Goa has its unique character because of a confluence of things, especially foreign influence.

Goa reflects portuguese influence, not british. The british and protuguses fought tirf wars -- as can be seen by the number of forts in Goa. The point I was trying to make is foreigners have no right to something that was done illegally. Its up to the locals to decide if they wan to preserve the heritage or not. But, preserving heritage at what cost? Are you saying that there shold be no more construction in Goa?

Making foreigners feel unwelcome? Do you think immigrants are accepted with open arms in western countries? Or may be you should watch the movie Gandhi to see how welcome people were made to feel in their own countries. It will take generations to heal old wounds.

Spanish colonies were more integrated that British colonies. The british made it a point to keep things segregated while in India. The product of their indiscretions (Anglo-Indians) were discarded like used clothing. Its going to be tough for the locals to accept them with open arms, regardless of what laws are passed -- don't you think?

Nick-H · Oct 13th, 2006, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjuna

As a response to the message you sent earlier and also to the one below, my advice would be for your parent/s to just go to England, walk into a council office and say that they're homeless with no money. They wouldn't have to worry about buying a house then, they'd be given one free,

Sorry, but that is rubbish, and if you think otherwise just you try getting council housing. If you (or your hypothetical indians) got anything at all it would be a cockroach-infested bedsit. One day, long ago, it might have happened, these days, those hypothetical Indians would probably be deported.

Quote:

along with everything else like money, free health care, free dentist treatment,

Technically, that is rubbish too. NHS treatment is not available free to people from countries that the UK does not have a reciprocal agreement with. In practice, you'd probably get the medical treatment and be miles away before they ever got around to checking. The dentistry? Hah! When was the last time you tried to get NHS dentistry? And if you check out the UK visitor's visa, it says No recourse to public funds.

Quote:

...Britain if they have the right documents and could afford to support themselves (just as I do here)

Yes, true.

Quote:

and if they did get there I doubt very much that it would be mentioned in the newspapers everyday,

Yes, true: UK is a multi-racial society: this is accepted and enshrined in law (does India have any law against racial descrimination?). India is not. India does not welcome immigrants, at least not from the 'West'.

Quote:

if that was the case they would have declared England taken over by foreigners years ago, the area where I own my house is 80% Asian, so are all the businesses.

Some people have, and still do say things like that: England may have made racism illegal, but there are still quite a few racists there.

Quote:

It doesn't bother us so why does it bother you?

Good question: that is one for the Indian Govt.

I keep on saying, by the way, that there is no law against foreigners buying land in UK. I stand willing to be corrected, I'm not a lawyer, but until I am, the Well UK wouldn't let Indians do it in UK argument is wrong, 'cos they would.

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Oct 13th, 2006, 00:34	#590
sirensongs Eeny meeny mango Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: All India Permit (somewhere between Delhi & Dharamsala) Posts: 1,213	You'd never know it from the local norms, but there are myriad ways to relate to individuals other than the two extremes of either reviling them, or worshipping them. How about just listening to what they say and relating to them as... people? What a concept. They deserve neither special rights, nor to be especially singled out for punishment. And just maybe, what they say has validity regardless of their perceived identity. Just a thought.

Oct 13th, 2006, 00:46	#594
capt_mahajan Infidel Sufi Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: styx Posts: 13,606	I am not trying to be argumentative or personal here, and I dont think I was earlier either. Neither am I an advocate in any way for restricting foreigners in legitimate pursuits in India. However, I find blanket assumptions (Indians will dirty beaches if the foreigner's leave) tiresome. Whatever foreigners are doing or not doing in Goa, they are not sentinels of the beaches there, or keepers of any faith. I am well aware of frustrations that arise across and between nationalities. More than most, I think. I have been a traveller all my adult life. I don't need to contribute anymore to a us vs them argument. Enough said.

Oct 13th, 2006, 00:47	#596
anjuna Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Anjuna Posts: 26	The law gets broken everywhere, but what hope is there when the police are not as dedicated to solving crimes and punishing criminals as they are to taking money off people for nothing. If you drive over the speed limit in England you pay a huge fine and get points on your licence, if you do it again you lose your license for a year, there's no chance of offering them a five pound note and walking away!