Foreign owned property in Goa, (Part One)

goangoangone · Sep 13th, 2006, 10:28

I'm not sure if this is relevant to anyone. Interesting nevertheless.
http://news.helplinelaw.com/0806/eco_power.php

crvlvr · Sep 13th, 2006, 11:33

As long as the govt charges riduculous taxes, people will find loopholes. India's "stamp duty" rate 8-12.5%, as indicated in the aritcle, which needs to be paid each time the property is sold is ridculously high.

Nick-H · Sep 13th, 2006, 13:59

...Too Right

Wish I'd known about this loophole! But probably best not to try anything that is getting declared illegal.

crvlvr · Sep 14th, 2006, 00:42

Nick,

I don't know the detail so the transaction. I assume, title is not transferred to the buyer. The property remains in the sellers name and the buyer is given a non-cancellable Power of Attorney to sell the property. If the Buyer wants to sell it later, he can using the POA. Or he can simple issue another POA to the new Buyer. so even though the title on the property does not change. Instead POAs are issued giving various people the right to sell the property, or issue POAs with that right to others.

In the past, people would simply indicate a much lower official price thereby lowering the stamp duty. The govt started cracking down on that saying that they reserved the right to "buy
a property at the official price. If that happenned, sellers would lose an upside they had negotiated under the table. I think thats what instigated the POA trick.

GoanCanuck · Sep 16th, 2006, 02:30

An update on the purchase of land by foreigners,
http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles...tory_ID=091577

Shaktipalooza · Sep 16th, 2006, 03:37

seems like the majority of this discussion has been about people purchasing land on tourist permits, without residency, forming sham businesses, etc.

Can I get some quick responses on the following strategy?

1. Aquire PIO/OIC cards for myself and my family. (I'm eligible in about three days, my son is now and my wife is still and Indian citizen)
2. Move to Goa, establish residency
3. Start looking for non-agricultural property to purchase
4. Make said purchase, build a house and/or hotel

I know lawyers and real estate developers in Bangalore that hopefully will be able to help with Goa land purchases or perhaps they will be able to point me towards trustworthy lawyers established in Goa.

AnnieG · Sep 16th, 2006, 03:45

I guess it depends on what nationality you are. If you are Indian born, and live in India now, no problem.
Otherwise, as you can gather from the gist of this thread, it ain't that simple.
Have you read this thread from the beginning?

Shaktipalooza · Sep 16th, 2006, 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnieG

I guess it depends on what nationality you are. If you are Indian born, and live in India now, no problem.
Otherwise, as you can gather from the gist of this thread, it ain't that simple.
Have you read this thread from the beginning?

Have you not read my stated situation?

Nick-H · Sep 16th, 2006, 04:05

It has been suggested that Person of Indian Origin for FEMA purposes means a person of genetic Indian origin, not the holder of a PIO card.

However the Imiigration dept site clearly states

Quote:

All facilities in the matter of acquisition, holding, transfer and disposal of immovable properties in India except in matters relating to the acquisition of agricultural/plantation properties.

Apart from that reservation I can't see anything wrong with your plan.

...Unless you should decide to choose a state where these things are not a political football.

You have, of course, the easy option (which I am taking just now) that your property will be bought and registered (at least at first) in your wife's name. Nobody can make any problems about that!

Nick-H · Sep 16th, 2006, 04:09

If you want to by a plantation, then it would have to be in your wife's name: but still, no problem: the fact that she married you doesn't disqualify her from buying agricultural land!

Shaktipalooza · Sep 16th, 2006, 04:17

Nick-H, thanks for replying with a helpful opinion. I've put in plenty of time trying to figure this stuff out but there always seems to be some gotchas. Reading the numerous articles coming out of Goa, it seems that state is intent on making their own 'interpretations' of the law that aren't very reassuring.

The hardest choice we've had to make is getting Mrs Shaktipalooza US citizenship, then a PIO or OIC card. This of course will prevent her/us from purchasing agricultural land (ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!). Which of course leads me to more confusion.

We have a friend who owns plantation land in Karnataka. Some 60 acres of that property was purchased as what he called "barren land" then cultivated to produce coconut palms & ginger. So I'm wondering what he meant by "barren land". Is that a legal term? Does it mean we could do the same?

GoanCanuck · Sep 16th, 2006, 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaktipalooza

Some 60 acres of that property was purchased as what he called "barren land" then cultivated to produce coconut palms & ginger. So I'm wondering what he meant by "barren land". Is that a legal term? Does it mean we could do the same?

You could buy land which was non agricultural but you will not be allowed to carry out agricultural operations on it if you are not an Indian passport holder. The only exception is if you inherited the land and it was ancestral property which at some point in the past used to be used for agriculture.

Nick-H · Sep 16th, 2006, 09:10

Maybe the best way for your family to get the best of both worlds is for Mrs S to keep that Indian citizenship!

I was kind-of joking about the agricultural land, but also it occurred to me that you might like to have an "estate"

Recently I've been asking myslef where residential land stops and agricultural starts. Although we are in the final stages of buying our Chennai house, I am already day-dreaming about our Kerala house. I see numerous properties on the net, with "x cocconut tree, y teak trees, z jack fruit trees, etc etc etc..... does that make it agricultural land?

I was not joking about the idea of giving up on Goa and choosing somewhere less volotile: especially your plans have focussed on Goa only recently.

Wen · Sep 21st, 2006, 05:52

We moved to Goa to retire in Sept 2005, after visiting for 10 years on holiday, We went in person to the Birmingham Embassy with our Sale Agreement and NRI bank statements, and got a 1 yearX. We came over to Goa, reported to the FRO and got our residence paper, which then entitled us to get our Pan Cards, Indian driving licence, residential bank account, bought a Motor scooter, which we registered in our name, and also to put in our 183 days as needed to buy legally before 1st April 2006. We went back to England to see family and friends in July 2006, and while we were there to renew our visa's. We arrived at the London Embassy with all the documents I have mentioned and more, to be told we can't have an x visa, only tourist. We got a 2 year tourist visa which means we have to leave India, we class as home every 180 days. Which means we can't buy, You cannot register on a tourist Visa. Without the registration papers from the FRO you can't do anything. What we want to know is why, and is there anybody out there in the same position, and also is there anything we can do about it. Thankyou for taking the time to read this, and please reply.

eater · Sep 21st, 2006, 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wen

We went in person to the Birmingham Embassy with our Sale Agreement and NRI bank statements, and got a 1 yearX. .

Wen....just more questions sorry.... were your father / mother grand father / g mother born in India? or on your husbands side?

Seems to me you need to find some family ties to India, I think, to make all this work. There may be other ways.....

Sep 13th, 2006, 10:28	#361
goangoangone What happened? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Goa Posts: 1,953	Power Of Attorney Property Deals Set To Be Illegal I'm not sure if this is relevant to anyone. Interesting nevertheless. http://news.helplinelaw.com/0806/eco_power.php __________________ GoanGoan......here

Sep 16th, 2006, 03:37	#366
Shaktipalooza Maha Guru Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Portland Oregon USA Posts: 910	seems like the majority of this discussion has been about people purchasing land on tourist permits, without residency, forming sham businesses, etc. Can I get some quick responses on the following strategy? 1. Aquire PIO/OIC cards for myself and my family. (I'm eligible in about three days, my son is now and my wife is still and Indian citizen) 2. Move to Goa, establish residency 3. Start looking for non-agricultural property to purchase 4. Make said purchase, build a house and/or hotel I know lawyers and real estate developers in Bangalore that hopefully will be able to help with Goa land purchases or perhaps they will be able to point me towards trustworthy lawyers established in Goa. __________________ Pics from India 2006 Traditional Indian Dance

Sep 16th, 2006, 03:45	#367
AnnieG Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Goa and Penzance, Cornwall Posts: 152	I guess it depends on what nationality you are. If you are Indian born, and live in India now, no problem. Otherwise, as you can gather from the gist of this thread, it ain't that simple. Have you read this thread from the beginning? __________________ AnnieG Live life to the full - you never know what's around the corner.

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Sep 13th, 2006, 11:33	#362
crvlvr Guru Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hollywood Posts: 4,667	As long as the govt charges riduculous taxes, people will find loopholes. India's "stamp duty" rate 8-12.5%, as indicated in the aritcle, which needs to be paid each time the property is sold is ridculously high.

Sep 13th, 2006, 13:59	#363
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,189	...Too Right Wish I'd known about this loophole! But probably best not to try anything that is getting declared illegal.

Sep 14th, 2006, 00:42	#364
crvlvr Guru Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hollywood Posts: 4,667	Nick, I don't know the detail so the transaction. I assume, title is not transferred to the buyer. The property remains in the sellers name and the buyer is given a non-cancellable Power of Attorney to sell the property. If the Buyer wants to sell it later, he can using the POA. Or he can simple issue another POA to the new Buyer. so even though the title on the property does not change. Instead POAs are issued giving various people the right to sell the property, or issue POAs with that right to others. In the past, people would simply indicate a much lower official price thereby lowering the stamp duty. The govt started cracking down on that saying that they reserved the right to "buy a property at the official price. If that happenned, sellers would lose an upside they had negotiated under the table. I think thats what instigated the POA trick.

Sep 16th, 2006, 02:30	#365
GoanCanuck Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 3,394	An update on the purchase of land by foreigners, http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles...tory_ID=091577

Sep 16th, 2006, 04:09	#370
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,189	If you want to by a plantation, then it would have to be in your wife's name: but still, no problem: the fact that she married you doesn't disqualify her from buying agricultural land!

Sep 16th, 2006, 04:17	#371
Shaktipalooza Maha Guru Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Portland Oregon USA Posts: 910	Nick-H, thanks for replying with a helpful opinion. I've put in plenty of time trying to figure this stuff out but there always seems to be some gotchas. Reading the numerous articles coming out of Goa, it seems that state is intent on making their own 'interpretations' of the law that aren't very reassuring. The hardest choice we've had to make is getting Mrs Shaktipalooza US citizenship, then a PIO or OIC card. This of course will prevent her/us from purchasing agricultural land (ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!). Which of course leads me to more confusion. We have a friend who owns plantation land in Karnataka. Some 60 acres of that property was purchased as what he called "barren land" then cultivated to produce coconut palms & ginger. So I'm wondering what he meant by "barren land". Is that a legal term? Does it mean we could do the same?

Sep 16th, 2006, 09:10	#373
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,189	Maybe the best way for your family to get the best of both worlds is for Mrs S to keep that Indian citizenship! I was kind-of joking about the agricultural land, but also it occurred to me that you might like to have an "estate" Recently I've been asking myslef where residential land stops and agricultural starts. Although we are in the final stages of buying our Chennai house, I am already day-dreaming about our Kerala house. I see numerous properties on the net, with "x cocconut tree, y teak trees, z jack fruit trees, etc etc etc..... does that make it agricultural land? I was not joking about the idea of giving up on Goa and choosing somewhere less volotile: especially your plans have focussed on Goa only recently.

Sep 21st, 2006, 05:52	#374
Wen Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: India Posts: 7	We moved to Goa to retire in Sept 2005, after visiting for 10 years on holiday, We went in person to the Birmingham Embassy with our Sale Agreement and NRI bank statements, and got a 1 yearX. We came over to Goa, reported to the FRO and got our residence paper, which then entitled us to get our Pan Cards, Indian driving licence, residential bank account, bought a Motor scooter, which we registered in our name, and also to put in our 183 days as needed to buy legally before 1st April 2006. We went back to England to see family and friends in July 2006, and while we were there to renew our visa's. We arrived at the London Embassy with all the documents I have mentioned and more, to be told we can't have an x visa, only tourist. We got a 2 year tourist visa which means we have to leave India, we class as home every 180 days. Which means we can't buy, You cannot register on a tourist Visa. Without the registration papers from the FRO you can't do anything. What we want to know is why, and is there anybody out there in the same position, and also is there anything we can do about it. Thankyou for taking the time to read this, and please reply.