Foreign owned property in Goa, (Part One)

abraacasa · Jun 18th, 2006, 23:03

Find a good lawyer definatly. I have been in and out of so many advocates offices and most of the time we have to tell them the law!!! The rule of thumb that I use is always was a where, what, why,how and who question. Never a yes or no, as guess what, the answer is always yes!!!!!! Dont expect the advocate to automatically do or check something unless you ask! Very frustrating.

abraacasa · Jun 18th, 2006, 23:26

Goangoangone
I am really new to all this stuff and jumped in way down the line here. It is making me a bit sick scrolling back to see how you started all this and what referenced you used. Has anyone given you the RBI website, have you seen it?? Apologies for repeating if you have.

Check it out RBI. That link should get you straight to the FAQ sections if I have done it right!!

Nick-H · Jun 19th, 2006, 00:31

abraacasa, thanks for your input.

goangoangone knows that RBI site very well, and many of us have paid regular visits. Goan' has even quoated it here.

There'ssomething else I half remember about that 183 days residence: something about it must be for a purpose; what purpose is unclear....

abraacasa · Jun 19th, 2006, 01:03

I cant remember anything specific about the 183 days apart from the fact that as well as completing this you must also show an intention to stay in India. I guess that means employment, business, a vocation (they do not expand on what a vocation may be) etc.I also take this to mean that if you have sold eveything in your home country and plan to retire in Goa you come under that cause where do you intend to stay????? As we all know though, none of it is black and white all a little greyish. Better check my papers are in order here for my house before the Police come knocking!!

dzibead · Jun 19th, 2006, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by abraacasa

I cant remember anything specific about the 183 days apart from the fact that as well as completing this you must also show an intention to stay in India. I guess that means employment, business, a vocation (they do not expand on what a vocation may be) etc.I also take this to mean that if you have sold eveything in your home country and plan to retire in Goa you come under that cause where do you intend to stay????? As we all know though, none of it is black and white all a little greyish. Better check my papers are in order here for my house before the Police come knocking!!

I strongly suspect the showing you have to make is more than simply, "I've sold up and here I am." That would effectively eliminate any immigration controls by the Indian Government. Foreigners who want to buy property in India would be well advised to consult not only a lawyer with expertise in property transactions, but also a lawyer who has expertise in Indian immigration law.

I think "an intention to stay" (is this language actually a quotation from a statute, or just your paraphrase?) must surely have to be connected to some other factors that allow a person to have an immigration status other than simply tourist or visitor. I've seen quite a few posts on IM by people who seem to think that merely staying in India for 183 days entitles one to "residency" or the right to buy property. But surely the 183 day period must be legal. In other words, a person can't just overstay the 180 limit one is allowed on a tourist visa and claim a right to residency or the right to stay indefinitly. If it were that simple, why would a 180-day limit be imposed in the first place? It would make no sense.

I'm not talking about the right of PIO's or NRI's to buy property or reside in India, since rules applicable to them are different. I'm talking about run-of-the-mill foreigners who just decide they want to move to India. That's not simply a real estate issue. It's an immigration issue, and from what I understand, an ordinary foreigner can't just immigrate to India as a retiree. Who knows, the rules may change someday (although I doubt it), but for now, I think foreigners who think they can just sell up and move permanently to India, without being qualified under the immigration laws for some status other than "tourist," are just caught up in a fantasy.

I believe this fantasy has been fostered by how easy it is for foreigners to obtain visitor visas to India and to stay for rather long periods of time (up to 6 months, no strings attached!). If, when applying for a visa to visit India, we had to got through what Indians are forced to go through to get a simple tourist visa to our countries (and often they can't get them AT ALL), fewer of us might be laboring under the delusion that we can just go to India and plop ourselves down for the duration.

abraacasa · Jun 19th, 2006, 01:58

Most people here who stay for a long time are not here on tourist visas. The embassy issues X visa for people who have property in India or want to reside here for a longer term than 6 months. Everyone is registered with the foreigners registration office and regular checks are made by Police on who is here and for what reason. Unless you breach the laws of the land you are fully entitled to be here and there is no immigration issue as you are in India with the permission of the Indian Government.
You are right, being here and doing the property thing on a tourist visa is not the right way to really go about it but some people find that they have no other alternative as they wont offer you a longer visa until you have made an investment here. A catch 22 situation I am afraid. There are no solicitors in Goa who really seem to know their stuff as each one will say something completely different to the next, maybe there is an expert in the UK, it would be good if there was. The RBI make the rules and quite simply you stick by what they say.

Immigration law is an interesting one and yes I agree should be looked into but whereever you come from (apart from a few countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh I think) according to the RBI you are just a foreigner and YES if you have papers to say that you are a resident (which are issued to you by a government body, the Police) you can buy it is written in black and white and the issue should not be complicated. Yes the RBI do not clarify what is an intention to stay, there is nothing written in law as far as I have found on that so one day you could fulfill the criteria, the next day you may not. It is India I suppose and nothing will ever be cut and dry.
This is getting boring now but yes no one should do anything without consulting a proessional, as all of this is just opinion and hot air!! However it may help some people as long as they dont take our word as letter od the law.

cyberhippie · Jun 19th, 2006, 02:15

Does it have to be 183 consecutive days in the fiscal year, if not it would be pretty easy to get 183 days on tourist visas!!

Steve and June · Jun 19th, 2006, 02:25

Abraacasa
Are you on this site to offer constructive comments or sell your
consultancy website ?
You say advocates are useless and then in the next breath you say consult a proessional ,sorry that should have been professional !!!

Steve and June · Jun 19th, 2006, 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberhippie

Does it have to be 183 consecutive days in the fiscal year, if not it would be pretty easy to get 183 days on tourist visas!!

Yes it does have to be in the same tax year !And no it won't be easy to do 183 days on a tourist visa because a tourist visa only lasts 6 months ! there are 182 and a half days in six months !

cyberhippie · Jun 19th, 2006, 02:34

Read the question, I asked if it had to be consecutive days!!

And please spare me the sarcasm I have been to India once or twice

Steve and June · Jun 19th, 2006, 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberhippie

Read the question, I asked if it had to be consecutive days!!

Read your question and you will realise how stupid it is if you have been following this conversation properly !
Why are you still persisting with this conversation ! Everything has been covered !Have some of you people got nothing better to do !Get a life ! watch the world cup ! For god sake where are you taking this ? Like flogging a dead horse ! Do one !!!

cyberhippie · Jun 19th, 2006, 02:49

You see the little red button with the white cross.........top right, just click and all your troubles will disappear.........no really!!

You could even use the address bar or drop down history menu, all will take you somewhere else entirely.........problem solved

Steve and June · Jun 19th, 2006, 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberhippie

You see the little red button with the white cross.........top right, just click and all your troubles will disappear.........no really!!

Whats with the kilt ?
Are you Scottish ?

Anders · Jun 19th, 2006, 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberhippie

Does it have to be 183 consecutive days in the fiscal year, if not it would be pretty easy to get 183 days on tourist visas!!

It does not say anything about it having to be consecutive days, it should be easy to do on 2 tourist visas, but you also have to satisfy the requirement on either:
(a) for or on taking up employment in India, or
(b) for carrying on in India a business or vocation in India, or
(c) for any other purpose, in such circumstances as would .indicate his intention to stay in India for an uncertain period.

And that might be a bit more difficult on a tourist visa.

cyberhippie · Jun 19th, 2006, 05:04

Cheers anders, I was thinking get the residency first (not that I'm buying renting is still a good deal!!)

Jun 18th, 2006, 23:03	#181
abraacasa Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Goa Posts: 7	Find a good lawyer definatly. I have been in and out of so many advocates offices and most of the time we have to tell them the law!!! The rule of thumb that I use is always was a where, what, why,how and who question. Never a yes or no, as guess what, the answer is always yes!!!!!! Dont expect the advocate to automatically do or check something unless you ask! Very frustrating. __________________ abraacasa www.srgoaproperty.com

Jun 19th, 2006, 00:31	#183
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 35,900	abraacasa, thanks for your input. goangoangone knows that RBI site very well, and many of us have paid regular visits. Goan' has even quoated it here. There'ssomething else I half remember about that 183 days residence: something about it must be for a purpose; what purpose is unclear.... __________________ ... Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)

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Jun 18th, 2006, 23:26	#182
abraacasa Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Goa Posts: 7	Goangoangone I am really new to all this stuff and jumped in way down the line here. It is making me a bit sick scrolling back to see how you started all this and what referenced you used. Has anyone given you the RBI website, have you seen it?? Apologies for repeating if you have. Check it out RBI. That link should get you straight to the FAQ sections if I have done it right!!

Jun 19th, 2006, 01:03	#184
abraacasa Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Goa Posts: 7	I cant remember anything specific about the 183 days apart from the fact that as well as completing this you must also show an intention to stay in India. I guess that means employment, business, a vocation (they do not expand on what a vocation may be) etc.I also take this to mean that if you have sold eveything in your home country and plan to retire in Goa you come under that cause where do you intend to stay????? As we all know though, none of it is black and white all a little greyish. Better check my papers are in order here for my house before the Police come knocking!!

Jun 19th, 2006, 01:58	#186
abraacasa Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Goa Posts: 7	Most people here who stay for a long time are not here on tourist visas. The embassy issues X visa for people who have property in India or want to reside here for a longer term than 6 months. Everyone is registered with the foreigners registration office and regular checks are made by Police on who is here and for what reason. Unless you breach the laws of the land you are fully entitled to be here and there is no immigration issue as you are in India with the permission of the Indian Government. You are right, being here and doing the property thing on a tourist visa is not the right way to really go about it but some people find that they have no other alternative as they wont offer you a longer visa until you have made an investment here. A catch 22 situation I am afraid. There are no solicitors in Goa who really seem to know their stuff as each one will say something completely different to the next, maybe there is an expert in the UK, it would be good if there was. The RBI make the rules and quite simply you stick by what they say. Immigration law is an interesting one and yes I agree should be looked into but whereever you come from (apart from a few countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh I think) according to the RBI you are just a foreigner and YES if you have papers to say that you are a resident (which are issued to you by a government body, the Police) you can buy it is written in black and white and the issue should not be complicated. Yes the RBI do not clarify what is an intention to stay, there is nothing written in law as far as I have found on that so one day you could fulfill the criteria, the next day you may not. It is India I suppose and nothing will ever be cut and dry. This is getting boring now but yes no one should do anything without consulting a proessional, as all of this is just opinion and hot air!! However it may help some people as long as they dont take our word as letter od the law.

Jun 19th, 2006, 02:15	#187
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,009	Does it have to be 183 consecutive days in the fiscal year, if not it would be pretty easy to get 183 days on tourist visas!!

Jun 19th, 2006, 02:25	#188
Steve and June Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Manchester ,United Kingdom Posts: 37	Abraacasa Are you on this site to offer constructive comments or sell your consultancy website ? You say advocates are useless and then in the next breath you say consult a proessional ,sorry that should have been professional !!!

Jun 19th, 2006, 02:34	#190
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,009	Read the question, I asked if it had to be consecutive days!! And please spare me the sarcasm I have been to India once or twice

Jun 19th, 2006, 02:49	#192
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,009	You see the little red button with the white cross.........top right, just click and all your troubles will disappear.........no really!! You could even use the address bar or drop down history menu, all will take you somewhere else entirely.........problem solved

Jun 19th, 2006, 05:04	#195
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,009	Cheers anders, I was thinking get the residency first (not that I'm buying renting is still a good deal!!)