Going on 60, still together.. what unites India?

shashank.aggarwal · Aug 14th, 2007, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

Too many people are in it for money and personal power and ego. Not, of course, that India is unique in that, but it is an extreme case.

It seems like an extreme case because the number of politicians are much higher compared to any other government in the world.

I am sure the percentage would work out just fine in comparison to rest of the world..only if someone can actually carry such a survey...

blackbird · Aug 14th, 2007, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by shashank.aggarwal

Thats a very serious misconception...

I'd just like to point out I was not saying that Goa and Kerala would be better off to leave India.... what I was saying was that you might expect local politicians etc in the wealthier states to be calling for independence, but as far as I know they are not.... not even in Goa, where many seem to blame all the state's troubles on outsiders.

In the UK much is made of the fact that we are a net contributor to the European Union (ie we pay more in taxes than we receive in aid), and the simplistic argument is made that we'd be richer if we left the EU. Some Indian states must be net contributors to the federal government, unless money grows on trees in New Delhi, but I never hear that argument being made about the Indian union. That was my point.... I wasn't trying to encourage a Keralan independence movement!

karthik_mitta · Aug 14th, 2007, 15:00

Cool .. some very thought provoking lines of thought from IMers here!

Besides LonelyAztec's point on "lack of city planners"; which my feeble mind could not assosiate with this thread... its getting interesting!

Nick-H · Aug 14th, 2007, 15:30

It's not that there aren't other countries where corruption in politics is rife, but I do suspect that India, whatever its size, population, etc, would (in fact, I think it does, but I can't give a link) rank very high in this respect.

I suspect also that it would rank very high in the number of serving politicians who have outstanding criminal charges/investigations against them or their close family.

Since the recent piece of stage management, that includes the president.

shashank.aggarwal · Aug 14th, 2007, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

Since the recent piece of stage management, that includes the president.

I just read in some magazine that all those charges have been rubbished and they were politically twisted facts just to malign her...

karthik_mitta · Aug 14th, 2007, 15:59

I agree to Nick's point.. though with a very heavy heart! In fact, becoming a politician is a part of "career growth" for a road side rowdy!

However, I dont believe these corrupt politicians are the reason for India to be united.. NO. Its not.

Nick-H · Aug 14th, 2007, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by shashank.aggarwal

I just read in some magazine that all those charges have been rubbished and they were politically twisted facts just to malign her...

The history has been pretty fully reported, in substantial detail. Anyone wanting to go through back issues of The New Indian Express can find long articles on the subject.

however, I'm sure there is now a new official history.

karthik... I am happy to see your optimism

ISN · Aug 14th, 2007, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by shashank.aggarwal

Attached is a CV, that might help you.

But I agree that a large section might be uneducated, but still you have people from some elite colleges serving as politicians..

When you have a majority of un-educated, and a few educated, it will not make a difference because the un-educated will make sure that the country does not progress.

shashank.aggarwal · Aug 14th, 2007, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISN

When you have a majority of un-educated, and a few educated, it will not make a difference because the un-educated will make sure that the country does not progress.

You are absolutely right...I agree that many of them are uneducated..

But still god knows how..the rate of progress has actually been good...!!

capt_mahajan · Aug 15th, 2007, 00:34

I think many countries remain united because of inertia.

Just too much effort involved to change things. Imagine if I woke up in the morning and wanted to get a group of people together to declare independence

flashpacker305 · Aug 15th, 2007, 00:35

Swami Vivekanand, in one of his essey says that what unite India is religion, whereas politics unite Europe.

icetea · Aug 15th, 2007, 12:37

I think the options give in the poll don't really cover the issue. Religion (as a way of life, not a doctrine), as someone said, is one crucial factor. A common history, quite a heavy one, including the more recent partition. The legacy of the british, including the huge infrastructure network linking the country. In fact it's the britishers who united the country in many ways, and still do, even if only through the use of English. The legacy of Gandhi, who made sure to cover the whole country, from Punjab to TN. Economic reasons, as well pointed out above. And perhaps even the peninsular shape of the country, surrounded by sea and "enemies" at north. Patriotism, I was amazed to see just how patriotic Indians can be (at least verbally..).

I guess my vote goes for "a shared sense of identity".

capt_mahajan · Aug 15th, 2007, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by icetea

Patriotism, I was amazed to see just how patriotic Indians can be (at least verbally..).

I would think that with four wars with Pakistan, another 'low intensity' war which has been going on for decades, one war with China, thousands killed during the Independence movement, 2.5 million folks in the Indian Army alone (including reserves, making it the second largest standing army in the world), 200000 in the airforce (4th largest, worldwide), 55000 in the navy (5th largest)... it is a little more than verbal.

And all armed forces personnel are volunteers. There has never been any conscription, including at the time of war, though the Indian Constitution allows for it.

No, not being jingoistic. Just disputing the verbal thing.

livedead · Aug 15th, 2007, 13:19

Happy Independence Day!!!
i m so proud to be an indian..i'll tell u an incident...a german friend had come down some time back..we took him to the matunga market where he really freaked out lookin at the variety of spicies and ask us..."is this for the cattle??"..we said..."hey u dud..this if for us!!"..he couldnt believe it...truly India the land of everything under the sun..u name it and we have it..mountains,hills,beaches,de serts,islands...fruits,vegetab les,spices....ocra grows nowhere else in abundance but in india..vasco da gama got really spaced when he landed at calicut in 1498 and checked out the spices in india..truly what a cosmic country..with all the drawbacks like poverty,corruption..still INDIA is a great land..a mystic land...the abode of gods!!
Bharat Mata Ki Jai!!!!

icetea · Aug 15th, 2007, 13:39

Captain, ok, IF we agree that fighting for one's country is the height of patriotism, as opposed to..say...softer acts of patriotism, as refusing a good job/educational offer abroad and staying in the country to improve things, then yes, you might have a point.

However those are relative numbers; India being the size it is, I do expect its navy/army to be the size you say it is! I don't think that's about patriotism. The volunteering part...I think in many parts of the world it happens that way, so again not that much difference.

That being said, I only mentioned "verbally, at least" because that's the level I have encountered, that's all. I'm not sure that joining the army nowadays has much do to with patriotism, even in India. Joining the NDA is certainly a prestige thing (was surprised to see their bold advertisements on TV).

Otherwise, seeing people's genuine pride of being an Indian is very refreshing for me (especially since I come from a place where self-loathing is a national sport among youngsters).

View Poll Results: What keeps India united?
Shared sense of identity	30	43.48%
Extreme form of democracy	10	14.49%
Secular tradition with religious freedom	24	34.78%
The Indian ruling elite	8	11.59%
Or just the sheer differences	17	24.64%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

Aug 14th, 2007, 15:00	#33
karthik_mitta Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 196	Cool .. some very thought provoking lines of thought from IMers here! Besides LonelyAztec's point on "lack of city planners"; which my feeble mind could not assosiate with this thread... its getting interesting! __________________ KM In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds - Martin Luther King Jr.

Aug 14th, 2007, 15:30	#34
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 25,832	It's not that there aren't other countries where corruption in politics is rife, but I do suspect that India, whatever its size, population, etc, would (in fact, I think it does, but I can't give a link) rank very high in this respect. I suspect also that it would rank very high in the number of serving politicians who have outstanding criminal charges/investigations against them or their close family. Since the recent piece of stage management, that includes the president. __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Aug 14th, 2007, 15:59	#36
karthik_mitta Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 196	I agree to Nick's point.. though with a very heavy heart! In fact, becoming a politician is a part of "career growth" for a road side rowdy! However, I dont believe these corrupt politicians are the reason for India to be united.. NO. Its not. Last edited by karthik_mitta : Aug 14th, 2007 at 15:59. Reason: deleted additional word

Aug 15th, 2007, 13:19	#44
livedead Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 12	Happy Independence Day!!! i m so proud to be an indian..i'll tell u an incident...a german friend had come down some time back..we took him to the matunga market where he really freaked out lookin at the variety of spicies and ask us..."is this for the cattle??"..we said..."hey u dud..this if for us!!"..he couldnt believe it...truly India the land of everything under the sun..u name it and we have it..mountains,hills,beaches,de serts,islands...fruits,vegetab les,spices....ocra grows nowhere else in abundance but in india..vasco da gama got really spaced when he landed at calicut in 1498 and checked out the spices in india..truly what a cosmic country..with all the drawbacks like poverty,corruption..still INDIA is a great land..a mystic land...the abode of gods!! Bharat Mata Ki Jai!!!! Last edited by machadinha : Aug 16th, 2007 at 14:13. Reason: merged post

Aug 15th, 2007, 00:34	#40
capt_mahajan (in charge of navel affairs) Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 9,751	I think many countries remain united because of inertia. Just too much effort involved to change things. Imagine if I woke up in the morning and wanted to get a group of people together to declare independence

Aug 15th, 2007, 00:35	#41
flashpacker305 Account Closed Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: England Posts: 5	Swami Vivekanand, in one of his essey says that what unite India is religion, whereas politics unite Europe.

Aug 15th, 2007, 12:37	#42
icetea 'sort of hate India' club member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chennai, via Romania Posts: 917	I think the options give in the poll don't really cover the issue. Religion (as a way of life, not a doctrine), as someone said, is one crucial factor. A common history, quite a heavy one, including the more recent partition. The legacy of the british, including the huge infrastructure network linking the country. In fact it's the britishers who united the country in many ways, and still do, even if only through the use of English. The legacy of Gandhi, who made sure to cover the whole country, from Punjab to TN. Economic reasons, as well pointed out above. And perhaps even the peninsular shape of the country, surrounded by sea and "enemies" at north. Patriotism, I was amazed to see just how patriotic Indians can be (at least verbally..). I guess my vote goes for "a shared sense of identity".

Aug 15th, 2007, 13:39	#45
icetea 'sort of hate India' club member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chennai, via Romania Posts: 917	Captain, ok, IF we agree that fighting for one's country is the height of patriotism, as opposed to..say...softer acts of patriotism, as refusing a good job/educational offer abroad and staying in the country to improve things, then yes, you might have a point. However those are relative numbers; India being the size it is, I do expect its navy/army to be the size you say it is! I don't think that's about patriotism. The volunteering part...I think in many parts of the world it happens that way, so again not that much difference. That being said, I only mentioned "verbally, at least" because that's the level I have encountered, that's all. I'm not sure that joining the army nowadays has much do to with patriotism, even in India. Joining the NDA is certainly a prestige thing (was surprised to see their bold advertisements on TV). Otherwise, seeing people's genuine pride of being an Indian is very refreshing for me (especially since I come from a place where self-loathing is a national sport among youngsters).

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

User Name		Remember Me?
Password