Best Vehicle for Hills?

Nick-H · Aug 20th, 2008, 15:12

My feeling is that Innova is what is called 'a people carrier', ie a car built to carry more people than an ordinary saloon. I don't regard it as an SUV --- ie a vehicle built to handle rougher terrain, if not actual off-road conditions.

Do check the thread I mention in post 10 before buying a Tata. There is a maxim that what matters is not so much never getting things wrong, but how a company handles them when they have gone wrong, that matters.

puchoo · Aug 20th, 2008, 15:12

Slightly bigger tires and that problems goes as well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shashank.aggarwal

Hills can be handled by all cars. Four wheel drives are required when you want to do actual offloading. But otherwise the SUVs are good for higher altitudes because of higher ground clearance, and thats it. There is absolutely no difference between your normal car and a 2X4 SUV, except for the ground clearance.

shashank.aggarwal · Aug 20th, 2008, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

I don't regard it as an SUV --- ie a vehicle built to handle rougher terrain, if not actual off-road conditions.

It comes under the category of Multi Utility Vehicle (MUV), like, Sumo, Tavera, Qualis etc.

Dilliwala · Aug 20th, 2008, 20:05

Gypsy is out because -
runs on petrol. Fuel economy also includes economy of sale-price. As someone who has regularly spent between 5000-7000 on diesel bills for any longish trip, I KNOW I don't want to be spending another 50% on petrol, specially when there are other costs also on any trip. Plus in extreme situations, you can sometimes find diesel hours away from the nearest pump, at a roadside shop. This won't happen with petrol.

Scorpio is out because -
A1 choice, but more expensive than the others without commensurate performance/economy in other areas to offset.

Innova is out because -
Another A1 choice, excellent for the plains, but I really wud want those 2 inches of extra ground clearance that it doesn't have.

Safari is out because -
I was going to say it's a toss-up between it and the Bolero, but Nick has disqualified it. brownboy66 was/is very happy with it though for city and surroundings, hasn't taken it into the hills. He may be along shortly with more comments.

That leaves -
the Bolero. Scores on everything - fuel-type, average (decent), engine power, ground clearance, seating.

Others -
Sumo Grande? NDTV gave it a so-so report, neither good nor bad. Yet to see one on any road, and haven't heard any real-life reports till date.

Ford Endeavour? How come no one ever says good things about it? Is it the price? Fuel consumption? Quality and costs of service/repair? What? I haven't a clue.

Tavera? Same prob as Innova for one - ground clearance.

Qualis? Very good, diesel version available, but somehow those wheels don't convince me!

Nick-H · Aug 21st, 2008, 00:04

A diesel engine is so much more relaxed too, even if it is a little more noisy about it.

It is not the cheaper of the two main fuels everywhere in the world (more expensive than petrol in UK) but it still works out cheaper per mile. Here in India, I think it is going to remain cheaper than petrol, although after the next election there may be a move away from subsidised fuel, and the prices could rise substantially.

puchoo · Aug 21st, 2008, 13:43

I personally love diesel , and i love diesel cars especially the ones rolling out today. I used to drive a Tata Estate at one point during college and have a comparison on what they were like then and now...

ks_bluechip · Aug 21st, 2008, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilliwala

That leaves -
the Bolero. Scores on everything - fuel-type, average (decent), engine power, ground clearance, seating.

Dilli: I am getting more and more convinced about Bolero. Particularly since you are so convinced about it (after plenty of Himalayan driving experience on it, personally).

What do you think would be the Total Landed Price of a new Bolero (configuration say as reqd for GHiRT)?

And what do you think its Resale Value would be after say 1 Year and 20,000 Kms usage?
.

Nick-H · Aug 21st, 2008, 16:40

Ravel seemed to like his --- and it has maintained its value for decades!

ks_bluechip · Aug 21st, 2008, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

Ravel seemed to like his --- and it has maintained its value for decades!

Ravel?

praks · Aug 21st, 2008, 17:25

Prices of the Bolero range from about Rs.4,75,000 for the basic model to about Rs.6,00,000 for the top end version.
After about a year and 20000 kms. usage, and depending on the vehicle condition, the value will depreciate by about 25% to 30%.

Arrange a test drive and get actual user feedback before you decide to buy it, especially for your Himalayan roadtrip.

Dilliwala · Aug 21st, 2008, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by ks_bluechip

Dilli: I am getting more and more convinced about Bolero. Particularly since you are so convinced about it (after plenty of Himalayan driving experience on it, personally).

What do you think would be the Total Landed Price of a new Bolero (configuration say as reqd for GHiRT)?

And what do you think its Resale Value would be after say 1 Year and 20,000 Kms usage?

Prices vary from state to state, so best call your local dealer. Praks's figure must be the Maharashtra price for the basic one - without a/c /heater, stereo, power windows and central locking. It MAY be without power-steering too, but I can't confirm that (there is a model without it too).

What you DEFINITELY need - power steering, a/c (you cud do this on your own and save some cash, but Mahindra a/c's are generally very good and trouble-free so I think it's worth it to go for the inbuilt one).
Subject to budget/convenience factor, hence optional - central locking, power windows, stereo (cud be bought from open market also if desired).

Resale??!! Hell, if I were you I'd sell the Indica instead, but after a year and 20k kms Bolero's resale price wud still be "good".

Quote:

Originally Posted by ks_bluechip

Ravel?

Trust Nick to inject (non-CRDI of course) a bit of traditional English wit into a motoring thread!

Sir, just google for "Ravel's Bolero".

Quote:

Originally Posted by praks

Arrange a test drive and get actual user feedback before you decide to buy it, especially for your Himalayan roadtrip.

After many, many trips I assure that it is actual user feedback on my part.

I have to point out again though that the Scorpio is also a very good vehicle - I ruled it out on price only, which was one of the OP's criteria.
And the Innova loses out on ground clearance, otherwise I hear very good things about it too.

praks · Aug 21st, 2008, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ks_bluechip

Ravel?

Perhaps, like me, you prefer the Bo Derek one?

praks · Aug 21st, 2008, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilliwala

After many, many trips I assure that it is actual user feedback on my part.

Don't you feel that it is a little underpowered? With a full load I found it to be quite sluggish.

Nick-H · Aug 21st, 2008, 19:39

Ravel's bolero: particularly good low end torque, causing it to pick up nicely. He hardly ever had to change down, even for hills

.

Terribly embarrassing if the orchestra does stall in the slow passage at the beginning, though.

Dilliwala · Aug 21st, 2008, 19:41

Only in the non-4wd sense, praks. The really few occasions I needed the extra power was in real 4wd situations - I seriously doubt that even a Scorpio 2wd (the only practical vehicle I know of with more engine-power than the Bolero) wud have helped in those situations.
Of course, I've had a full load of passengers AND baggage (without roof-load) AND tough gradients only on very few occasions. But I don't recall any real sluggishness outside of 'natural limits'.

View Poll Results: Best Vehicle/Car for the Hills & Beyond...
Tata Safari	7	15.91%
Mahindra Scorpio	16	36.36%
Mahindra Bolero	12	27.27%
Toyota Innova	4	9.09%
Othes (Please Mention)	5	11.36%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Aug 20th, 2008, 15:12	#16
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,203	My feeling is that Innova is what is called 'a people carrier', ie a car built to carry more people than an ordinary saloon. I don't regard it as an SUV --- ie a vehicle built to handle rougher terrain, if not actual off-road conditions. Do check the thread I mention in post 10 before buying a Tata. There is a maxim that what matters is not so much never getting things wrong, but how a company handles them when they have gone wrong, that matters.

Aug 20th, 2008, 20:05	#19
Dilliwala Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: 28N 077E / दिल्ली Posts: 4,798	Gypsy is out because - runs on petrol. Fuel economy also includes economy of sale-price. As someone who has regularly spent between 5000-7000 on diesel bills for any longish trip, I KNOW I don't want to be spending another 50% on petrol, specially when there are other costs also on any trip. Plus in extreme situations, you can sometimes find diesel hours away from the nearest pump, at a roadside shop. This won't happen with petrol. Scorpio is out because - A1 choice, but more expensive than the others without commensurate performance/economy in other areas to offset. Innova is out because - Another A1 choice, excellent for the plains, but I really wud want those 2 inches of extra ground clearance that it doesn't have. Safari is out because - I was going to say it's a toss-up between it and the Bolero, but Nick has disqualified it. brownboy66 was/is very happy with it though for city and surroundings, hasn't taken it into the hills. He may be along shortly with more comments. That leaves - the Bolero. Scores on everything - fuel-type, average (decent), engine power, ground clearance, seating. Others - Sumo Grande? NDTV gave it a so-so report, neither good nor bad. Yet to see one on any road, and haven't heard any real-life reports till date. Ford Endeavour? How come no one ever says good things about it? Is it the price? Fuel consumption? Quality and costs of service/repair? What? I haven't a clue. Tavera? Same prob as Innova for one - ground clearance. Qualis? Very good, diesel version available, but somehow those wheels don't convince me!

Aug 21st, 2008, 00:04	#20
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,203	A diesel engine is so much more relaxed too, even if it is a little more noisy about it. It is not the cheaper of the two main fuels everywhere in the world (more expensive than petrol in UK) but it still works out cheaper per mile. Here in India, I think it is going to remain cheaper than petrol, although after the next election there may be a move away from subsidised fuel, and the prices could rise substantially.

Aug 21st, 2008, 13:43	#21
puchoo Maha Guru Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Delhi & Himachal Pradesh (Shimla) Posts: 5,411	I personally love diesel , and i love diesel cars especially the ones rolling out today. I used to drive a Tata Estate at one point during college and have a comparison on what they were like then and now...

Aug 21st, 2008, 16:40	#23
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,203	Ravel seemed to like his --- and it has maintained its value for decades!

Aug 21st, 2008, 17:25	#25
praks Senile Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 409	Prices of the Bolero range from about Rs.4,75,000 for the basic model to about Rs.6,00,000 for the top end version. After about a year and 20000 kms. usage, and depending on the vehicle condition, the value will depreciate by about 25% to 30%. Arrange a test drive and get actual user feedback before you decide to buy it, especially for your Himalayan roadtrip.

Aug 21st, 2008, 19:39	#29
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,203	Ravel's bolero: particularly good low end torque, causing it to pick up nicely. He hardly ever had to change down, even for hills . Terribly embarrassing if the orchestra does stall in the slow passage at the beginning, though.

Aug 21st, 2008, 19:41	#30
Dilliwala Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: 28N 077E / दिल्ली Posts: 4,798	Only in the non-4wd sense, praks. The really few occasions I needed the extra power was in real 4wd situations - I seriously doubt that even a Scorpio 2wd (the only practical vehicle I know of with more engine-power than the Bolero) wud have helped in those situations. Of course, I've had a full load of passengers AND baggage (without roof-load) AND tough gradients only on very few occasions. But I don't recall any real sluggishness outside of 'natural limits'.