When You Find A Picture Taken by You ...

Nick-H

Gosh, I am getting naive in my old age: I hadn't thought of that!

And I think that Mach is spot on with what can be expected as 'compensation'

PeakXV

Some of my vintage/antique pictures that I posted (and own the original albumens/silver gelatons) to the IM Gallery have ended up on Flickr as a part of someone's 'personal collection' .... probably nothing 'legal' in at all but it is always more professional to give credit where credit is due!

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Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

dzibead

Generally I agree. But if the magazine did pay someone for use of the photo, a corrected attribution plus payment of whatever they paid the other "source" would be appropriate. (And they should "blacklist" the other source, too - if there was one - but that's another matter ...)

This is going a tiny bit OT (hey, it's an IM tradition ... practically a requirement, isnt' it?), but folks should be aware that just because you own an original photo or other original work of art doesn't mean you necessarily own the reproduction rights.

In the case of Peak's vintage photos, he may and probably does (at least for all practical purposes) because the photos are probably old enough to be "out of copyright". But I own quite a few original paintings and many of them were sold with an express reservation by the artist of all reproduction rights. Artists who sell their works directly, i.e., not though a gallery, seem particularly inclined to do this. The issue of who owns the reproduction rights get tricky when you buy a work in the secondary or re-sale market - e.g., from a private owner, or even from a gallery -- because the artist's reservation of rights, if any, may not be clearly conveyed to you.

And then there's the whole "artist's moral rights" issue, which (in some jurisdictions) protects the integrity of works of art by statute, regardless of any express reservation of rights by the artist. Under this legal scheme, even if you own a work of art, you can't deface it or change it without the artist's approval.

Nick-H

An Aside...

In UK the copyright continues to be the property of the artist unless it is expressly and explicitly sold, and that sale has to be in writing. There are exceptions such as when an artist is employed to produce artwork, that copyright belongs to the employer.

I used to work for an honest publisher. Sometimes we would trace the heirs of the artist, if the picture we wanted to publish was still in copyright (less than fifty years after the artist's death). They were almost always oblivious that they owned that property, only artists who had worked for publication during their lives tended to explicitly bequeath their rights, so sometimes I would trace through a couple of generations of residual beneficiaries.

As a greeting card publisher we often had to pay two fees: one for copyright, the other for physical access.

Just because the artist has retained the copyright, does not mean they can send a photographer to photograph the painting! If the owner of the painting refuses access: that's it.

Similarly, a painting may be many hundreds of years out of copyright: that does not entitle you to take your camera into the gallery and publish the result.

A reproduction has its own copyright. Monet's Waterlillies maybe out of copyright, but my ex-employer's print of it is very much their copyright. Once upon a time, secret marks were added to such reproductions to catch out those who made prints from prints.

Disclaimer: My knowledge of copyright as it applies to pictures in UK was good and accurate --- but there has been a Copyright Act since then and some details may have changed.

Wanderer22

Hi Peak,

Could you please let me know the URL of that gallery over on Flickr. Wonder if any of my old shots are there as well? PM is OK, thanks.

W22

machadinha

This is all tricky and locally defined fine-print stuff yes. Where I live, a writer (if safeguarded by the proper contracts) will own the copyright to their work, yet s/he explicitly defers the exercise of that right to their publishers, until further notice of & all parties being expected to keep each other informed etc. It's clear how the latter clauses tend to typically screw up somewhere along the line.

Moreover, if the book goes out of print you are entitled to its ownership after a couple of years; but only if you send the publisher notification to this effect. Who are supposed to send you notification to that effect. Which however somehow never happens

And that's about books where the stakes are higher; with magazines, it soon becomes a disaster (btw you may well have deferred the copyright to them -- however because of the hasty nature of the business you may well not have any contract to begin with), and I reckon many cases just aren't pursued because it's just not worth it.

Hey, as the saying goes: No one said it would be easy.

btw Peak, in your place I'd drop Flickr a line and see what happens. In an unrelated case, I had an old bank account with a little money which at some point I figured I could use. Enquiring about it, it was at first difficult to access, then it had simply evaporated. I was young and at that point I had other things on my mind, and I just dropped it. A few years later, I sent the director a letter calling his attention to it and threatening further steps. The money with its due interest arrived next morning or so. I'm still curious to know what happened to the employee in question.

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PLaneMad

Mridula, most you can expect is an apology and a change in the online version(if any). I had my photo from wikipedia pinched by Hindu's frontline for their cover story without credits. After a stiff email, they feigned ignorance of the cc license which i had used. Anyhow they conducted an enquiry and i got this

Settlement if i had sued- $50, Frontline atributing their cover photo to a certain 'planemad' - priceless

Unless you need the money badly for buying ice creams, id say let it go, not worth the legal hassles. congrats for getting your photo in however. you are now part of the elite club who's photos are stolen without credits cause they were too damn good not to publish

machadinha

That's certainly one way to look at it

capt_mahajan

This is all too confusing

I vote for going over to their office and beating the crap out of them

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Outside the machine

PeakXV

You gotta take what you can get(or scam from another site ) in this world ......

Hyderabadi

My take (sadly) is that, when you post pictures, or opinions, such as this on the www, you invite plagiarism, comments, appreciation. etc.

Nut cases / air heads exist, and they will do their part.

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mridula

While I retired for the night this thread grew. Thank you all for your help. I do not want to let this go because then it makes it easier for them to do it the next time too. I am not looking for damages. A change in attribution would be enough for me.

I got a friend who has written for them to get in touch with the editor on my behalf. I hope something should come out of this.

My special thanks to Dzibead for the offer of help.

Thanks Planemad for sharing your story. That was a lovely picture.

Once again thanks a lot to all of you who replied.

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Mridula

Travel Tales from India

dzibead

I think this is the right approach and I'm glad you aren't going to let it go. When something like this happens and you shrug it off and say, "What can you do?" or "They'll just ignore me", as you say, it just makes it that much easier for them to keep doing the wrong thing, and reinforces the idea that they can get away with it or even that this kind of thing is acceptable, which it isn't.

The offer still stands, if you need it.

mridula

Dzibead, if the need be I will definitely get in touch with you.

Nick-H

Great stuff. Yes, threads grow, and they spawn side-stories too (especially if I get in on them )!

I think you're on the right track, and having a contact who knows someone is a good start.