Visiting the Tribal Areas

beanie

Hey travellers. I've been reading about Orissa and the tribal areas sound fascinating. I feel conflicted however, and clearly know far too little about the dynamics and social situation of the region... does a tour around the tribal area (either independently or with an agent) lead to zoo like gawking and exploitation of minorities?

A snippet of this discussion appeared on this thread:

Want to travel to Orissa

Pafzumes

hi beanie
i went to orissa around a quarter year back....mesmerizing one!
stayed with a tribal family for 2 days, Nothing like zoo gawking,only if you wish.
try non-naxal hit zones(you can get list from District govt office)if you want safe tribal expirience
Tribal people of orissa are really poor but they want to get out from their miseries..show of discontent against govt is carried out in form of naxal movements
...note few things before you explore the naxal dominated tribal areas...
>company of a known local guide becomes essential as areas are naxal hits
>people are really very poor so if you plan to stay at tribe home,please pay your due in monetary or goods term,coz family will insist for meal,though they may starve for the day
>Tribals want their conditions to be heard,they dont hesitate discussing their miseries
>u never know who is associated with naxals(i actually encountered couple of them)avoid negative talks about naxals with anyone

This happens to be my personal experience...govt officials were helpful providing info about region, and please, dont neglect police warnings
these are just precautions when being in naxal hit tribe region
Orissa is beautiful,vast,lonely,soulful. ..This Ashoka Dynasty is mysterious

you can help tribals there by contributing to NGOs(most of them are located in Bhubhaneshwar, Puri & cuttack)

newislander

pafzumes, that was an excellent post. You seem to understand the situations quite well and I wonder if you can give me some more advice.

I am cycling through Orissa over to Chhatissgarh via Jeypore. As a cyclist I will not be on a tour or using a guide, though I thought I might employ a guide at least once so I can pick up so good advice.

My route plan is to turn inland from Gopalur-on-sea and then if I think i have time and inclination head up to Balangir over the hills viaTatapani, and Baligurha. Otherwise I will skip those areas and head straight over to Koraput.

Just how dangerous is the area with regards to wildlife and rebels. I am not convinced the rebels would want to kidnap me or kill me. What do you think. I say this becuase I spoke to another cyclist who met some. Although maybe it comes down to individual circumstances.

It would be good to get a map of known whereabouts of the rebels.

who do you think would be the best authorities in Orissa to consult. I am a little wary that authorities often make things out to be more dangerous than they really are. But in general I try to head warnings. I mean what is dangerous for the police and even maybe local tourists may not be dangerous for me.

When I am there I am going to visit the museums and try to find out more about the tribals - about dealing with them - for the purposes of my trip so that I don't upset them.

What would be a good amount to give them for food and accommodation If they offer me hospitality. I think this is a good idea and thank you for suggesting it. Is there anything else I could have on hand to offer them that they might need?

Cheers

lorrius

hi newislander,

great to hear that you plan to cycle around Orissa. That is exactly our plan as well. We will start at the beginning of December. When do you start?

The best map we could find was Google Earth/MAp and we have planed our trip there.
Would be great if we could share some information.

Cheers, lorrius

vonkla

Do you know the maps of Nelles http://www.nelles-verlag.de/ . In the Netherlands the are available in the better book stores.

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newislander

Lorrius

I agree with vonkla, get your nelles maps in switzerland. They are the best for india. I used them for my last trip. Drive on the small white roads when possible but i am not sure of the condition of the roads in Orissa. So you will have to check that for yourselves. In India, the yellow roads (on the map) highways are always too busy and dangerous and not so scenic so avoid as much as possible. But maybe you have cycled in india before. I have cycled over on the Western side.

You should take a guidebook in my opinion. LP provides the essential information about tribes and then just keep scouring the web and asking for more info. I have seen some nice videos on youtube. I just looked at your google map. You seem to have found out enough places to explore. Where will you go after V. in the South. Do you continue on to Chennai.

Also see what P. Sainath has to say. Be very careful how you go pointing your camera at tribal peoples. Take the advice regarding tribals seriously. They are a delicate people in a delicate state and you can get yourself into awkward situations by disregarding the advice of those in the know - this i understand from stories I have read about on the net. Also for your own safety and comfort. Though I understand that the tribals are not at all dangerous to us. But you should do some research about the Naxalites just so you understand what that's all about. But maybe you already know.

I will be riding into Orissa from Kolkata in early January. My intinerary looks much like yours except that I am heading over to Chhattisgarh after Orissa.

I would be interested in your experience if you want to include me in your emails stories to friends or if you have a blog. I will pm you my email address.

Are you starting in Varanasi? Where are you before then? Is this your first cycling in India? How long do you expect to be on the road? As usual we are always curious about each other. Last trip I only met one other cyclist on my route until I got to Kerala where I met another couple. If you are on the coast road, you will probably meet more.

newislander

Actually Lorrius as you haven't got PM yet, can you pm me your contact details and I can reply by email if you are up for it. I don't want to put my email address in a public post. I don't have a blog myself so email is the only way to communicate. I am leaving home this saturday. Landing in Mumbai on Sunday.

machadinha

New members do not have the PM (Private Messaging) function yet, neither to send nor receive. It takes a certain nr. of posts + period of membership.

You could create a free disposable webmail address for the purpose, then post it here. Or discuss what you need on the board. Be aware anyone could contact you on that address pretending to be the other. Posting your private email address is not advised, for all the obvious reasons.

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labrol

Rs100 for food and the same for accomodation each day.More if you wish. It is more appropriate to give the money in the hands of the youngest child in the house, in full view of the adults. If there are many children, you could divide in parts or even put the money by the side of an infant while placing your hand gently on the head of the child. This way it is a blessing from you as an elder rather than a payment. Receiving payment for hospitality is generally not considered respectable. It is a matter of honor to feed the guest even if the hosts have to sleep hungry.

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newislander

I know this will sound odd but 100 for food sounds like a large amount, out of proportion with what is given. Once I was given breakfast at a farm. I had already had breakfast but the women invited me to come in and then insisted I eat something with them. It wasn't a feast by any means. Is the 100 rupees you suggest for food meant to be a gift out of proportion to the meal or is it meant to reflect the monetary value of the meal?

newislander

Well of course I am not going to put my private email address on the thread. I am confident that Lorrius is who she says she is.

labrol

It is not the monetary value and it is not for one meal. I have mentioned it per day. In any case it ought to be either out of proportion or not at all. The 'not at all' option I would never take unless it has been just a cup of tea.
If the family is running a paying guest facility and has been 'touristified', then the price would already be fixed and would be much higher.While if you are there for the experience and because you want to be of help and the family has not solicited you to be a customer, then better be prepared to 'give till it hurts'. If Rs 100($2) per day for meals hurts, I must be from a different planet.

Of course this is my belief/opinion and I do not profess it to be correct for everyone and in every context.

Aishah

newislander - with the exchange rate around 41rupees for the Australian dollar, how could you think 100 rupees out of proportion for a meal and hospitality? I agree with what labrol is saying here.

You pay more than the 100 rupee for just a cup of coffee in Oz!

Considering that the daily overall budget of many travellers here, and which has been mentioned on the forum previously, anything up to 1500 rupees a day can be expected for accommodation, food and travel expenses. Sometimes slightly more even. I think the 100 rupee suggestion of labrol's is perfectly reasonable, and you will look a bit stingy with less.

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machadinha

<cross-posted with Aishah>

That's about the best and at the same time very practical advice I've ever seen on a potentially sensitive issue like this. (And typically perhaps, the monetary quote was the least that immediately sprung out to me here. The general approach though: Chapeau, hats off, here's someone who knows and understands the issues that may be looming around corners not immediately, or never, seen to you even.)

Yes; my message above was a standardized one, one of the very few I have, to answer some questions I found myself typing out the answer to too often.

Whether or not Lorrius is who they say they are, I wish you good luck in determining whether it is they when receiving an email from thingumajig at blah dot com. Experience teaches that notably women, or those who are perceived to be, who are looking for anything on any web boards like these can expect (quite) some unwanted attention. But work it out for yourself.

With the combination of your plans and your blatant unwillingness, nay, even adamancy regarding any suggestions on those that don't seem to remotely fit your expectations, I wonder how one would successfully go about such plans really. It would take an open mind and a certain natural interest in one's surroundings, and in (widely) differing views, if anything you'd think.

But, and as always: it's your trip, not mine. You might do well to make a bit more effort to acknowledge some obviously knowledgeable and otherwise sympathetic people's responses around here though. Or then if you already know it all anyway, then why even ask, one might wonder. People may soon stop answering.

It is a pity, in that there is in fact quite a vault of collective knowledge available here that might in fact help you in your plans. But then whose loss is it really; yours, one can only reasonably surmise.

(You may notice I am, or now am no longer, diplomatically avoiding the question of you expecting to be put up by some people you don't know and who may have very little, and mostly on the merits of them being exotic to you it would seem, then focusing on will your recompensation literally match their efforts. I'm not calling to just throw your Rupees about under such circumstances btw (one could arguably and conversely overdo it even); but,

Yes, cough, that is arguably the least that might be said of it.

You'll realize most anywhere save for in the real middle of nowhere you'll find a guesthouse of some sorts, right? While that may seem a little boring or bourgeois to some of us, paying for the service normally relieves you from any worries of what is expected of you in turn, other than the money one has already paid, of course.

Even bicycling around, I'm sure one could try and plan one's trips around these, if only to pose the least of possible burdens on one's surroundings.

May I ask this question: What good reason should some poor Indian farmer or dayworker or somesuch, let alone of "tribal" designation even (I hope you realize most tribals you won't even recognize as such unless you're really in the know. In Mandu this year I was told the area is about 90% tribal; apart from people and then obviously mostly in the lower social strata tending to dress a little colorful, you really wouldn't immediately say so), have to put up and feed some absolute alien whom they can't even understand? The fact that most will in fact do so notwithstanding. I think in their place I'd know who to spear (or preferably gun down), and then yet we react with horror when that is what in fact sometimes happens (very rarely if ever in India, it should be added, or not directed against foreign tourists anyway).

Savages! The lot of them!

machadinha

btw And as another afterthought,

I would agree one can eat out very cheaply in India, and so this might strike me as a little high at first. (Note Labrol now specified he meant it for a full day though.)

A simple eatery will naturally have less overhead though, and so will bring costs down. Serving out the same meals on an assembly-line basis really isn't very costly. I've worked in some Western "people's kitchens" myself (where food is served on a cost basis, not for profit), it works because it follows the same idea. Except of course that working there, our intention was not to live off it. (I do think say the cheap all-you-can-eat thali-cum-meals concept must stem from similar lines. Except here of course a form of profit is figured in. Nothing strange about that; if you manage to sell hundreds of identical, or practically identical, meals, you could be looking at quite an interesting profit margin. Of course, this has no bearing on how the average family gets by.)

I was a little astounded to speak to some hotel folks (at arguably the budget end) and such this year who told me they earned Rs. 100 a day. So that's a decent job, I'm sure one could fare a lot worse. (They were not the managers but the keepers even, I'm sure the "boys" -- grown men, more often than not --- below them earn quite a bit less.)

They weren't the kind who were trying to get anything out of me either; it just came up in conversation, and I feel reasonably sure they were telling the truth.

At the same time, I was a little shocked to see how prices for everyday goods have gone up. You know, the kind of stuff that is pre-priced and so doesn't get haggled over. A piece of soap here, a candle there. Rs. 10 here, Rs. 30 there. With very simple stuff veering towards the Rs. 30 spectrum rather.

So thinking of having yourself and a wife and two children at least to feed on Rs. 100 a day (one of these guys and my hotel keeper indeed had an adult child with by now a military career, and having seen some action too, and presumably tuition needed or until that stage at least, and another very young child. Don't tell me he was bullshitting me please, I ate chapati in his house (one-room shack, rather) and asked him for permission to comfort his wife when she couldn't help but cry over some stuff that beset her), and having to find yourself lucky and keeping up that cheerful appearance all day... Walking around in your crisp uniform that I'm sure you have to buy and maintain yourself... Brrr, (wo-) man, it just gives me the creeps.

And then I don't even know, nor think in this respect I would want to know, what a sack of rice, of lentils, various spices, etc. goes by.