Orissa temple bars Dalits' entry

greenchutney

right..and manu smriti was written in hindi right?

dude..we have a shit load of texts..and lots of portions of them have been lost. and contradictions abound at every turn. pashu (cow) should be beaten and worshipped eh?..thats why we worship the cow eh?

when was vedas written ?

when was the other texts written?

and sure manu would have said that.. nobody is denying it. but go read the background on manu smriti....and the research on it it...also its not the be all and end all of sanatana dharma....aka or also tortured and put everyone and everything in one bucket called a hinduism.

go read how many people disown manu smriti....a significant portion of the sects of sanatana dharma do..

nomad

may be lot of good things were also written.
but what matters is what we are following and how we are treating sections of our own society.

research on manu smriti, why??? i won't even pee on that. those who quote from that text and implement it like the priest of orrisa tample should figure out what it actually means.

will i get a fatwa for this from shiv sena??

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greenchutney

wise men in your village...hmmmmmm.....arent so wise after all.....are they now?

sure they will prove their point, but they will also end up in jail with the domestic violence act...and manu smriti or whatever smriti aint going to be your excuse honey in our court system.

pah!...if my family priest quotes this, first his dhoti will be pulled by the women in my house, and then he will be thrown out of the house with the choicest of the words...

yeah..teachers are teaching this...please tell me which one?...

nomad

few days back RSS proposed that its time to eliminate the caste system from society. they said that to start with we should start excepting dalit priests in temples.

i am not sure how much support they will get but i am with them on this move

greenchutney

research..because its not complete, and. because its been intreperted by western and british to their own means, because its been bastardized and circulated by the missionaries to achieve their goals.... it is part of the of our ancient texts and deserves to be researched as much as research into vedas and what not......and its important to understand the perspective and relevance in todays times.

you peeing on it or whatever is your call. ....please dont do on the road is all i say or ..smallsquirrels (a IM member who has been victim) house walls....

i agree that we need to adapt to the times....and i support the RSS in this initiative. i also think we already have laws against discrimination. in fact so much so thats its positive dicrimination in many areas. and i could be screaming that i (being a non dalit) dont have a legitimate chance to enter many of our colleges with the way the reservations have been set up...

vmehra24

But you are mistaken--Shudras are not the same as Dalits. (The Shudras correspond roughly with OBCs).

nomad

[quote=greenchutney]

you peeing on it or whatever is your call. ....please dont do on the road is all i say or ..smallsquirrels (a IM member who has been victim) house walls....

QUOTE]

i won't.

crvlvr

In which case, they are discrimnating against the poor, not the dalits. I stick to myy opinion, that it is almost impossible to discriminate caste based on appearance. there are temple, like shabarimalai, that do not allow women. Obviously that rule is a little more enforceble.

Manusmriti was (supposedly) written by Manu, the first man, hinduism's version of Adam. It was never really considered an important text, and has been superceeded by a number of other religious texts that came after it. Almost any scholar agrees that it is outdated. Only people with a vested interest will point to it and misinterpret it.

from wikipedia

nomad

lets keep the reservation debate away else it may get ugly. all i want to say is that its dangerous for the society if oonly a part of the society is making progress. political consequences of that we have seen in bihar where progress/low and order/being good or bad was not at all a issue in the election when lalu won the election twice in a row. people were happy that they can at least vote because of lalu.

mayawati did nothing for them but they still vote for her, as no one does anything for them, at least she talks about them

sirensongs

Interesting logic. Why would black American students want to attend prestigious (white) universities or other schools where they were "clearly not wanted"? Thank all the gods that they did challenge that system and that these dalits and others continue to do so.

"Why do they want to be part of a system and tradition that treats them so poorly?" is something I have wondered often. The answer is, many do not and are (and always have been) converting to other religions that offer them more dignity. One major temple (Tirupathi) is now offering bribes to "the poor" to keep them Hindu (after criticizing other groups for offering bribes to the same people for conversion).

The Hindu establishment never seemed to mind losing them, till they realized they were losing numbers...now they're in a mad scramble to "reclaim" the dalits and tribals they were losing.

HYDERABAD: Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams (TTD), which runs the richest temple in the country, will hand out one gram of gold to poor families to keep them from converting to other religions....

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Oilerman

There are movements in India to bring about the mass conversions of low caste Hindu's and bring them into the folds of Sihkism, Chritianity and especialy Buddism. Buddism's birth place is infact India and many Indian's want to re-establish India as a Buddist country as they see Hinduism as nothing but relgious and social slavery. I've heard it said that any low caste Hindu who is educated could not possibly remain a Hindu. This is why many people beleive lower castes are either denied education or are prevented from recieving aid that would make education affordable. The most telling thing that really shows the real story in India is laws passed this year in two states (I can't remember off the top of my head which ones but quick search should yeild more info) where Buddism was made a branch of Hinduism under law. There-by any Hindu converting to Buddism was still a Hindu under law. This makes as much sence as claiming all Catholics are Jews because Christ was a Jew, or by saying all Muslims are actully Christian. It is nothing but a ploy by the powerful to keep the weak surpressed. This has far reaching effects for the low castes regarding education, health, work and worship.

My point is in India the caste system is still widely supported by powerfull Brahmins in villages, cities, bussiness and government. The world for the large part does not know the full story and its sad.

sirensongs

I thought the only state to do so was Gujarat.
Yes, it comes as quite a surprise to the Dalit Buddhists, who intentionally left Hinduism to escape this oppression, that they are now summarily declared "Hindu"! The Vishwa Hindu Mahasangha (HQ in Kathmandu) have a really convenient formula whereby Buddhists are all Hindu...but the many "foreign" Buddhist are somehow *not* Hindu, and can never be (according to a personal interview with their president, Bharat Kesari Simha). It's full of contradiction, opportunism and politics through and through.

Also, the east Asian Buddhists are "Hindu" when politically convenient (when counting numbers that is - their secretary told me "Hindus are one-third of the world population" - because he is counting, among others, all the Chinese Confucian Buddhists and Taoists) but are not good enough, or "Hindu" enough, to be given admission into Pashupati or other major Hindu temples.

sirensongs

Oh, you must have the wrong translation - one that was purposely mistranslated by the Brits/MaxMueller/pick your scapegoat. The real, authentic translations says you should only beat your women and slaves on Thursdays and Sundays!!!

nomad

thats my own translation

i have noticed similar kind of stupidity in other religions also. if you start digging they are all the same. i mean they are all dirty. all the religious documents are actually political documents in disguise.
i may get fatwa again.

pope is the biggest politician of them all. i have heard that he does not wash his ass in the morning till gets the news of 1000 new conversions in Africa.

one more fatwa

imamams, rabbis, pandits, pope, beny hinn ... $%^%$^&^#^$#%#$

one more fatwa


SO... lets not discuss which religion is good and which one is bad, lets discuss what dalits in orissa are doing and why its a chane towards better society.

batistuta

Manu smriti is not the authorative book in Sanatana Dharma.It was in all probability written by a High caste Brahmin to preserve the authority of his own caste.As with all the scriptures of India the origins of this book and time is not Knowm and only be surmised.The Importance of this book should be judged by the fact on hOw many people go by this book and not on wht it says.It is argued by many missionaries that this book is law book of Hindus and they as usual use every oppurtunity to sling mud on Hinduism ,but run for cover under the garb of religions minority when challenged for a debate.
Merchant ,your comment on dalits not having anything else to wear is ridiculous .The general category are the oppressed people to a certain extent as the students have to be very good to get themselves a decent education which is not the case with dalits or OBC castes as they can get in with mediocre grades.