Auroville

Nick-H · May 25th, 2008, 00:10

Colds come from viruses, not fans.

But... Mrs. N loves to sit in the draught of the fan, or the cold air from the AC --- and then complains that she has muscle pains. I cannot convince her that the two are related, though I'm convinced they are!

andyanderson · May 25th, 2008, 00:25

On a cold note, in Canada we have the same debate regarding forced air heating. By some coincidence, when winter arrives and we turn on the furnace, everyone catches a cold. Curious.

atala · May 26th, 2008, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

Colds come from viruses, not fans.

Colds come from cold times,

, the viruses can be there all the while, if no cold air makes the body susceptible for their proliferation, the cold will not develop. According to Traditional Chinese Medicine there are two spots between the shoulder-blades which when touched by cold air-draft long enough can trigger the onset of a cold. Careful self-observation at times of exposure to cold air can reveal a significance with this. There are probably other triggers as well like cold feet (plus the viruses).

Nick-H · May 27th, 2008, 00:56

There is religion, and there is science.

And both consists of theories!

atala · May 27th, 2008, 01:51

That is a good point; but: both rely on belief also.

mr_rush · May 27th, 2008, 03:56

From the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...nt/7417864.stm

Quote:

Local concerns over Indian utopia

Auroville sounds like a throwback to the 60s, advocating no rules and leaders and promising peace and harmony, but Rachel Wright hears claims of exploitation and abuse at the southern Indian community.

Some call it the giant golden golf ball, and the description is just right. The Matrimandir - literally the temple of the Mother - is a huge eight-sided almost-spherical building.

It is surrounded by carefully manicured lawns, something of an achievement in arid southern India, and visitors are allowed in only by special appointment.

I joined a group of tourists, mainly Indians, who were being shown around by a middle-aged Frenchman called Gilles. It struck me as a little strange that a European was showing Indians round a town in their own country.

But then Auroville is a strange place. Gilles, who has lived there since the early 1980s had helped build the Matrimandir.

He enthused about the symbolism, about the symmetry, and about a woman known as the mother, while we stood under an enormous banyan tree, sheltering from the blistering south Indian sun.

The mother was a French woman called Mirra Alfassa, who lived in nearby Pondicherry, a former French colony.

She was a disciple of a well-known Indian philosopher called Shri Aurobindo, who had moved to the town after he was imprisoned under the British Raj.

Pixie dust

Shri Aurobindo believed that evolution was not at an end. The mother decided that Auroville would be where that evolution could continue, a universal town where people from around the world could live together in harmony and unity, without having to worry about food and shelter.

A place where there were no rules, no leaders and no money.

She proclaimed that at its centre would be the Matrimandir, the soul of Auroville. It was only finished this year, in time for the 40th anniversary.

Gilles took us inside. Everything was completely white; the carpets on the floor, the marble on the walls, even the socks we were given to wear so we would not dirty the floors.

We ascended a walkway to the upper chamber, and opened the door to see what was said to be the largest crystal in the world, lit by a single shaft of sunlight.

As my eyes adjusted to the gloom, specks of fluff rose up from the carpet twinkling like pixie dust.

We all sat down on mats in front of white pillars that did not actually connect to the ceiling.

Cushions were handed out to protect the columns from being marked when we lent against them. We sat in silence for 15 minutes.

The idea is not necessarily to pray, but rather to be quiet in a holy place.

As we walked out into a wall of heat, Gilles explained that the building of the universal town was going very slowly.

When they began in 1968 the plan had been for a city for 50,000, 40 years later there are only 2,000 people living there, two thirds of them Westerners.

I asked my French guide whether he thought the ideals of the mother had been realised.

Ideal society?

"For an ideal society," he replied, "you have to have ideal people, and we don't have ideal people."

"So how do you make them ideal?" I asked.

Well, the answer is, according to the philosophy of Auroville, through practising yoga. Later I asked Gilles whether there were some residents here less ideal than others.

"I'd get rid of half of them," he told me conspiratorially. Aurovillians receive a small maintenance grant, partly funded by the Indian government. In exchange they are supposed to volunteer for a few hours work every day, "the rest of the time they are seeking the divine", supposedly.

Actually, they are also in the business of making money, there are at least 120 commercial enterprises operating here, making incense, clothes, silk paintings and so on.

Under the rules, they can keep two-thirds of the profits and pay no tax.

The locals think it is not fair. They are the ones who work full-time, and often for less than the Aurovillians get in maintenance grants.

"I feel like a slave," one of them told me.

It's like being back in the days of the British Raj
Worker at Auroville

"Of course they do provide us with jobs," he said, "but it's very difficult for us local Tamils to become members."

"It's like being back in the days of the British Raj," said another.

Abuse claims

"They are allowed to get away with whatever they like, including paying our children to have sex with them, and we are powerless to complain."

To be fair Auroville does do a great deal for the local community; it employs 4000 people, runs schools for local children and has reforested an enormous area that was once a barren landscape.

But even the Aurovillian authorities admit that the community did in the mid-90s include a convicted paedophile.

They say they have strict procedures in place to deal with any incidents that might arise in the future.

Auroville is certainly a strange sort of place, but some way short, I would say, of being an ideal society.

ashakasha · Jun 19th, 2008, 00:25

I've been in regular contact with a handful of Aurovillians for the past 2 months. My husband has been asked to help build a 16 room apartment building, and I have been asked to work in the fundraising department. We have committed to at least one month, but made clear that we would be willing to stay as long as needed. All seemed find and dandy, until we started to try to secure accommodations. I knew we would have to contribute financially, and I explained that we would need to stay within 200 US dollars per month.

The least amount we have been quoted for a basic, communal accommodation is US $ 970 per month!!!!

Is it just me, or does this sound a little much?

How can your concept be that no money will be exchanged, yet working visitors must pay such an exhorbitant amount of money- and help build the community?

Seems like an elitist few have found a clever way to exploit others in order to achieve a laid-back, nice lifestyle for themselves

Never heard of a slave having to PAY to be a slave.

I'm trying to fight these negative feelings and impressions, but...just can't ignore the blatant contradictions.

Can someone explain to me how this is fair or reasonable? Maybe I am just missing something

grikoo · Jun 19th, 2008, 00:41

I think your impressions are right on.

It's one thing for a volunteer based charity to charge volunteers, as this is often one of their main sources of income for ongoing projects. As long as the money is going into those projects, and the projects are legitimate, no problem.

It's a completely different thing to charge volunteers outrageous sums to help build your own house, community center, etc. The people organizing the volunteers are directly benefitting from their work and money. A questionable practice in my opinion.

I've always had a similar vibe about it.

atala · Jun 25th, 2008, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashakasha

The least amount we have been quoted for a basic, communal accommodation is US $ 970 per month!!!!

Prices for a guest room per day in Auroville vary between about 250-500 Rupees a day, according to the standard that you desire. Which makes per month about 300 Dollars per person; if taken for two people, it might come to 600, but not always: there are places, like nice beach-huts, where double occupancy is not automatically double price. Your 970 probably results from a mid-range priced place, where room rent is around 550 Rupees per day. Auroville is expensive, no doubt about that. But if you go on your own search, you get cheaper and more fun places.

You are also talking about a communal place, it therefore probably includes the food (around 60-100 Rs per day).

Have you been to AV before? If not, go there without committing to volunteer, check it out for yourself first, find your nice place to stay. If it is not in the heavy tourist season X-mas to March, you find places easily. If you then find you want to contribute with work, decide on the spot, after reviewing the situation.

Even Newcomers, let alone visitors, have to pay their way the first two years. That is just a reality. Otherwise AV would just end up attracting the whole world to hang out there. Their side has to be seen too. And visitors cannot contribute that much work, given the local circumstances and the sort of problems everyone confronts (climate, culture, communication, technical possibilities etc.)

Again, go there to explore, then decide.

ashakasha · Jun 30th, 2008, 00:38

"Have you been to AV before? If not, go there without committing to volunteer"

But then, who would do all the work and pay all the bills?

Sorry, but I don't think there is any shack in India worth $970 USD a month. My family and I live quite comfortably in our own place with our own bathroom and organic food in the US for less than that.

"Otherwise AV would just end up attracting the whole world to hang out there."

Isn't it a "universal community" where all men are welcome to come and live? Long ago when it was founded, it was meant to be a community of 50,000 from all over the world. Today, it has a community of 2000- mostly white westerners (apparently RICH WHITE WESTERNERS).

"And visitors cannot contribute that much work, given the local circumstances"

I have come to understand that the men and women of Tamil Nadu are brought in to do cheap labor and farming, yet are not able to become members. The government gives Auroville financial grants to pay their compensation. But the people of Tamil Nadu claim that Auroville keeps a portion of this money. The legal complaints are available on the internet.

I don't mean to speak harshly, and definitely not towards you, Atala. I just think folks should really consider what they are actually paying for when they go there.

I could be wrong, but I have spent some time talking with Aurovillians and researching as much as I can about the place. These impressions are just what naturally arose in me.

If we ever go there and pay those prices, we will definitely not be doing ANY work. We will ride horses, frolic on the beach, meditate, do yoga, twiddle our thumbs, take long naps, etc.

As I wrote to you in the PM: a traveler wrote that the beach huts are actually on Tamil cremation grounds and that they would come "home" to people burning right next to their hut. Doesn't sound like a pleasant scenario for either party. Certainly not a nearly thousand dollar experience

Also, folks I have been corresponding with are on vacation from Auroville (in France, Switzerland, etc.)- so perhaps those huge financial contributions pay for their holidays- OUTSIDE OF INDIA.

I think we will go throw our money around in Kerala instead

atala · Jun 30th, 2008, 19:47

For the sake of interested other readers (some info gathered from a PM):

The price quoted is for 3 people, and is simply what every tourist pays for about a month, visitors or volunteer (almost anywhere else in India too)

Auroville is not a place specifical for volunteering; that is like expecting to go and volunteer in Goa or anywhere else where it is nice.

There are several communities on the beach in AV. The one I refered her to is not near a cremation ground.

The locals are not cheap labor: AV is a major work-provider for many in the region, and educates people to become independent and more skillful.

ashakasha has not been to India before.

ashakasha · Jun 30th, 2008, 23:09

"ashakasha has not been to India before."

Precisely why I am trying to be as informed as possible before going there.

Another perfect example of the grandiose "I've been to India and you haven't, nanny nanny boo boo" mentality

So, once I have been, will I finally get accepted into the know-it-all-about-everything-in-the-world club???

capt_mahajan · Jun 30th, 2008, 23:15

Quote:

So, once I have been, will I finally get accepted into the know-it-all-about-everything-in-the-world club???

Nope. For that, you should be qualified to contribute to THIS thread.

The litmus test. After that, you are king (or queen, as the case may be)

atala · Jul 1st, 2008, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashakasha

"ashakasha has not been to India before."

Precisely why I am trying to be as informed as possible before going there.

Another perfect example of the grandiose "I've been to India and you haven't, nanny nanny boo boo" mentality

So, once I have been, will I finally get accepted into the know-it-all-about-everything-in-the-world club???

I did not intend to sting you. It is just a basic info for other readers, actually would have been important for myself too. Your researching online is well and fine, but it would all be quite obvious to you if you would see for yourself what the place is about. This is not some intentional community with "sharing" and all, where you can volunteer and are welcomed, it is not even a commune really in any way, people and interests are much too diverse for that. I have lived there long enough to see its complexity, and that takes a number of years to really understand and see.

As to your money point that enraged you initially, you will see that you won't get very far for 330 Dollars per person per month in India, staying as a tourist. At good places in Kerala you can easily use that much or more for a week.

I am no defender of Auroville, I see its pitfalls better than anyone here, I do not share its values and ideals, I just know the place and can advise people who wish to go there, that's all.

May you find your place and be happy wherever it is.

May 25th, 2008, 00:10	#31
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,763	Colds come from viruses, not fans. But... Mrs. N loves to sit in the draught of the fan, or the cold air from the AC --- and then complains that she has muscle pains. I cannot convince her that the two are related, though I'm convinced they are! __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Jun 19th, 2008, 00:25	#37
ashakasha Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Asheville, North Carolina (USA) Posts: 83	my experience, thus far I've been in regular contact with a handful of Aurovillians for the past 2 months. My husband has been asked to help build a 16 room apartment building, and I have been asked to work in the fundraising department. We have committed to at least one month, but made clear that we would be willing to stay as long as needed. All seemed find and dandy, until we started to try to secure accommodations. I knew we would have to contribute financially, and I explained that we would need to stay within 200 US dollars per month. The least amount we have been quoted for a basic, communal accommodation is US $ 970 per month!!!! Is it just me, or does this sound a little much? How can your concept be that no money will be exchanged, yet working visitors must pay such an exhorbitant amount of money- and help build the community? Seems like an elitist few have found a clever way to exploit others in order to achieve a laid-back, nice lifestyle for themselves Never heard of a slave having to PAY to be a slave. I'm trying to fight these negative feelings and impressions, but...just can't ignore the blatant contradictions. Can someone explain to me how this is fair or reasonable? Maybe I am just missing something

Jun 30th, 2008, 00:38	#40
ashakasha Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Asheville, North Carolina (USA) Posts: 83	The whole world's hang out "Have you been to AV before? If not, go there without committing to volunteer" But then, who would do all the work and pay all the bills? Sorry, but I don't think there is any shack in India worth $970 USD a month. My family and I live quite comfortably in our own place with our own bathroom and organic food in the US for less than that. "Otherwise AV would just end up attracting the whole world to hang out there." Isn't it a "universal community" where all men are welcome to come and live? Long ago when it was founded, it was meant to be a community of 50,000 from all over the world. Today, it has a community of 2000- mostly white westerners (apparently RICH WHITE WESTERNERS). "And visitors cannot contribute that much work, given the local circumstances" I have come to understand that the men and women of Tamil Nadu are brought in to do cheap labor and farming, yet are not able to become members. The government gives Auroville financial grants to pay their compensation. But the people of Tamil Nadu claim that Auroville keeps a portion of this money. The legal complaints are available on the internet. I don't mean to speak harshly, and definitely not towards you, Atala. I just think folks should really consider what they are actually paying for when they go there. I could be wrong, but I have spent some time talking with Aurovillians and researching as much as I can about the place. These impressions are just what naturally arose in me. If we ever go there and pay those prices, we will definitely not be doing ANY work. We will ride horses, frolic on the beach, meditate, do yoga, twiddle our thumbs, take long naps, etc. As I wrote to you in the PM: a traveler wrote that the beach huts are actually on Tamil cremation grounds and that they would come "home" to people burning right next to their hut. Doesn't sound like a pleasant scenario for either party. Certainly not a nearly thousand dollar experience Also, folks I have been corresponding with are on vacation from Auroville (in France, Switzerland, etc.)- so perhaps those huge financial contributions pay for their holidays- OUTSIDE OF INDIA. I think we will go throw our money around in Kerala instead

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May 25th, 2008, 00:25	#32
andyanderson Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Vancouver Canada Posts: 24	On a cold note, in Canada we have the same debate regarding forced air heating. By some coincidence, when winter arrives and we turn on the furnace, everyone catches a cold. Curious.

May 27th, 2008, 00:56	#34
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,763	There is religion, and there is science. And both consists of theories!

May 27th, 2008, 01:51	#35
atala Senior Member, 8 yrs in India Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Switzerland, just back from India 2008 Posts: 691	That is a good point; but: both rely on belief also.

Jun 19th, 2008, 00:41	#38
grikoo Disclaimer- He who knows not what he speaks of Join Date: May 2008 Location: Here Posts: 463	I think your impressions are right on. It's one thing for a volunteer based charity to charge volunteers, as this is often one of their main sources of income for ongoing projects. As long as the money is going into those projects, and the projects are legitimate, no problem. It's a completely different thing to charge volunteers outrageous sums to help build your own house, community center, etc. The people organizing the volunteers are directly benefitting from their work and money. A questionable practice in my opinion. I've always had a similar vibe about it.

Jun 30th, 2008, 19:47	#41
atala Senior Member, 8 yrs in India Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Switzerland, just back from India 2008 Posts: 691	For the sake of interested other readers (some info gathered from a PM): The price quoted is for 3 people, and is simply what every tourist pays for about a month, visitors or volunteer (almost anywhere else in India too) Auroville is not a place specifical for volunteering; that is like expecting to go and volunteer in Goa or anywhere else where it is nice. There are several communities on the beach in AV. The one I refered her to is not near a cremation ground. The locals are not cheap labor: AV is a major work-provider for many in the region, and educates people to become independent and more skillful. ashakasha has not been to India before.

Jun 30th, 2008, 23:09	#42
ashakasha Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Asheville, North Carolina (USA) Posts: 83	"ashakasha has not been to India before." Precisely why I am trying to be as informed as possible before going there. Another perfect example of the grandiose "I've been to India and you haven't, nanny nanny boo boo" mentality So, once I have been, will I finally get accepted into the know-it-all-about-everything-in-the-world club???

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