Moving to bangalore - Please help me make a decision

ajrulez

True :-) I guess that's one advantage India has over other Asian countries - almost all work is conducted using English as medium of communication.

On the money! My main motivation to move to Bangalore is just to see what's going on in that place 'cuz it's always in news. I just want to be a part of all this coolness we hear about Bangalore.

Hmm I don't have a very flashy lifestyle - lol doesn't mean I don't go out with the boys for some beers haha. I mean to say it's pretty average lifestyle that I have, so I end up with decent savings...something in late 20K range.

I do want to try it because 10 years later I don't want to say, "Wish I tried it man"

Thanks for your comments, man.

ajrulez

Traveller, before I even reply to your comments, I just want to say that your opinion pretty much reflected my inner voice, my real thoughts.

Man, are you lucky or what? I would love to get a job where I work 6 months in India, and the other 6 in the US - even if I don't get paid American salary for the time I am in India although I won't complain if I do get an American salary in India

Do you have a similar job for me...maybe you can hook me up with a similar deal...hehe just kidding.

Totally man. Wealth is indeed relative and no matter how much you make in a job, if you don't like that job and that place, it's not worth it - Not saying I don't like Chicago...I love this flippin' city!!
I am not thinking about coming to India and making a lot of money for my future. You earn more, you spend more - for example, I just spent about $6,000 on minor dental work...I am sure in India I would have got an entire new set of teeth (with a new jaw bone as a bonus) for that much lol.

I also did some calculations of my own (based on some stuff I read on Google, Jayanna's post, and other people's opinion),..and any which way you calculate, I don't see more than INR 50,000 in my hand per month after taxes, rent, and car payment. Now, no matter what I do, I'll spend at least 15,000 - 20,000 from that on food, misc. things leaving me with a paltry 30,000 per month to save...doesn't sound very good

Yes, your assumption is correct. My family is in the US...they actually never moved to India, it was just me and my brother who grew up in India due to family issues I guess with that kinna money, my 2 months' savings will be spent just on air ticket to the US. At least financially this is a very hard move to make

I agree to the tax savings part in the US. I am not fully aware of tax saving mechanism in India...and have scheduled a call with Bangalore HR to discuss that aspect.

My current job is safe until at least 2011-2012. We already have work that we are doing which is supposed to be released in 2011-2012 time frame. I am just concerned about long run however, because we see so many companies almost minimizing their US operations to Zero just like what IBM did couple months back. Maybe it's a case of paranoia, but I don't want to be in a position where say I get married and have a kid or two in next 5-6 years and then find myself without a job
This thought is actually one of the reasons that made me think about applying to this job initially. I know it is absurd, and even unhealthy to assume how things are going to be in future

You bring up a very good point here. I think the reason(s) to do something is more important than the fact that you are doing it.

Here are my reasons (and believe me, most of them are real kiddish)
1. I have heard, read, seen so much about Bangalore - I just think it will be cool for me to be a part of this coolness.

2. I probably am afraid that if I don't go there, then my career will die half way, because all the jobs are going there. And I'll be too old to get a job in India by the time that happens

3. I am bored with my job (I won't say I dislike it), so I am thinking this move to Bangalore might prove to be something refreshing, something that'll give me some new experience.

4. I don't see much growth these days in the US...I mean career-wise, and I think (another assumption probably) that India provides great opportunity for career growth. I mean I could be wrong, but that's what I think.

The project\department that I am going to be in (if I go) is pretty much the Indian equivalent of what I do here. I am just hoping that once I get there, I can find something else after couple of years...within the company or outside - since there are so many companies in Bangalore...I'll be like a kid in a candy shop.

I have any feelings of love or dislike about one or the other place. Once you are at any given place and you make good friends there..and you have a decent job, you start liking that place...I think

Anyways, thanks man...your comments have been more than helpful. At least it made me ask myself some questions about the move.

ajrulez

Your assumption is correct - I am aware of the financial impact of this move. If only I was going to be on an expat contract...haha. But what I do is nothing very unique or specialized...I guess that's why I am getting 11 lakhs and not 50 lakhs unlike expats. Mortgage etc is, like you said, not even on my list of concerns.

That is one of he primary reasons I even thought of applying to this job. Let's not kid ourselves, it's pretty likely that in next 10-15 years all Software jobs will end up in Bangalore, and at that time, I'll be too old for someone to offer me a job.

I also think there might be come growth potential (career wise) in Bangalore, which is totally missing in the US (in the company where I work, don't want to generalize US as a whole).

Well, I did some calculations (see like 3 posts before this, if you are interested). This 11 lakhs is inclusive of flexible benefits the company offers. This benefit package includes rent allowance, car payments, PF+Gratuity, and gas for the car (upto INR 50,000 per year). So the HR chick said all this money will be deducted to get to my taxable income.

Assuming 1,20,000 per year each for rent and car payments and INR 90,000 per year (PF+Gratuity) - my taxable income becomes just 7,70,000 and tax on that amount is close to 1,45,000. I'll have close to 6,25,000 for other expenses - food, cable, internet, going out with friends (I'm sure I'll make some lol), misc. All in all, I'll end up with close to 3 lakhs per year in savings (best case scenario lol).

ajrulez

I totally appreciate your opinion, and also that of LilBoyBigTown's - not the discussion that you two are having mutually, but the opinions expressed regarding my situation.

I just wanted to have an open, no-strings-attached discussion on my situation, and I thought this was an ideal platform to do so. If I ask my family or friends, they of course are in some way attached to me so their opinions may be biased one way or the other.

I agree it's pretty decent money here. I certainly think it's better than a majority of people my age & experience make here (barring places like NYC, Bay Area). I mean of course there are people my age or younger who have their MBAs from Wharton, Harvard and other top Business schools and they make like two-times or three-times this money. Ohh and how can we forget those damn lawyers and doctors...crap lol just thinking bout them makes me depressed and makes me feel I am poor.

ajrulez

Thanks for the link you posted in the original post for tax calculation. That link was indeed helpful.

My biggest concern (let's say 70% weightage) was of course to find out whether or not the offered salary is commensurate with my experience - which it seems, it is.

Like I said, every one's comments are helpful to me...some made me question why I want to even move, some made me think what I'll gain, some made me think what I'll lose...so it's all cool I think :-)

Cheers

thejag

i sincearly believe youre going about this the wrong way.

when your job is guaranteed until 2011/12 and you know what you do is not so specialised... and youre worried about not having a job after that. Id say stay on in the US if you can, upgrade your skills... learn new things... get better prospects.

If i was in the same position as you id do the same....

One question: how is your typical workday? regular hours? do you leave the office at the same time everyday?

ajrulez

Hmm I want to do the same, i.e. get more exposure, learn new things...which is why I was thinking of going to Bangalore. I gotta admit though, I already know they do similar work in the department that I am being offered a job in. Just hoping that one thing would lead to another and then I might end up doing some new, cool, challenging work. Hard to find anything cool in the US these days, and I have been in this group since last 2.5 years, so I am not learning much these days.

My typical work day is pretty cool..I don't really mind going in to work unlike most people, and I hate to admit it, sometimes look forward to it - if I am in the middle of something that I didn't finish. I don't have fixed hours, and usually managers and leads don't try to butt in to my work.

So let's see...
10:00 AM - 10:45 AM - Get in to work
10:45 AM - 12:30 PM - Work (answering questions that guys on my team have, checking emails, designing\writing code, joking around with my buddies at work, meetings)
12:30 PM - 1:30 PM - Lunch, Smoke
1:30 PM - 3:30 PM - Work
3:30 PM - 4:00 PM - Smoke, Coffee, Take a walk
4:00 PM - 6:00 \ 7:00 PM - Work .. and then take off sometime between 6:00 and 7:00 PM.

Hmm so yeah that's pretty much my day at work. Any specific reason you wanted to know? Or were you just curious?

So I would say more or less I do leave work at same time, sometimes I am there till 8:00 - 9:00... or I work from home at night to meet a deadline. Sometimes I go in on weekends to take care of stuff.

thejag

Thats what i wanted to know..... i know that at higher levels this doesnt happen but whats routinely mnetioned by folks that have experienced both indian and american workcultures is the stickiness to work timings. you mentioned doing routine work (as in non specialised) so thought maybe you stick to timings and all but you dont... so i guess youll fit in here... might wanna expect a few extra late nighters...

I understand what youre saying... everytime i felt stagnated id start itching to move on too.... gained a lot of experience that way but missed several opportunities that would open up right after id just moved on too... though in your case i think the move makes sense. theyre likely to bring newer work to india before the US with the differing cost structures...

Sandeepsharma

Hi.
I have moved back to India a few years ago and 11 Lac is jut not enough, if you are coming for the expirence then its fine for a year of two, I have the following expences and you can take it from there.

Rent : 25,000.00 ( Two bed roon nice with all facilities)
Car Loan : 17,000 ( for INR 500,000 for 3 yars)
Driver : 6000.00 per month
Internet : 1000.00 per month
electricty : 2000.00 per month
Food : 10,000.00 per month ( Home food)
Maid : 1000.00 per month
weekends : 10,000.00 per month ( 2500 per weekend)
Cloths : 4000.00 per month ( i shirt, 1 pant and i casual ware)
Misc : 7000.00 per month

You spend about 83K a month to live well and about 70 K if you compromise. I have not discussed taxes at all and travel with friends within India, gifts a birthday parties, dating etc....

Like is said its great for expirence not for the money.

ajrulez

Hi Sandeep,

Thanks for the break down of expenses that you provided...this is some info that I was looking for :-)

To begin with, I HATE myself for counting every small expense, cuz that's not how I live...even other people in US or India or anywhere "decent" don't live like that...I mean who counts cost of each meal anywayas? But I guess since this is such a big, serious move, I'd rather be doing this than feel sorry later.

I sure as hell am gonna need a driver,; at least for first few months until I get used to driving in India (I can drive on an empty road very well lol...but unfortunately that's never gonna happen ) I heard the company has it's own bus for the employees, but I am not used to a fixed schedule, especially waking up early in the morning to catch a bus.

And since I am single and have no family in Bangalore, home food is not something I'll be able to get my hands on. So I'll be eating out for the most part - lunch is free in the company cafeteria though That being said, if guys in my team are going out for lunch and ask me to accompany, I will definitely tag along...

And again, since I am single I sure will have some dating expenses haha..or at least I can hope\pray I will, can't I ?

Also, once I go out drinking, I easily blow up 2000 a night...and that potentially could happen every Friday and\or every Saturday provided I get some company there. So even the expenses you mentioned for a weekend apply to me.

Not to mention, I'll also need to fly back to US once every year to see family, so that's gonna shave off my savings by another 1 lakh.

But OMG..I didn't count or think about electricity bills being close to 2000 a month... I was thinking more along the lines of 200 lol..guess I was wrong biggggg time.

So I guess here's my break down after reading your post:

Rent : 10,000.00 - One-bedroom with medium level of comfort (don't need to live like an expat when I am not paid like one). Even PG is fine with me..I am cool with trying different things...besides it's an additional bonus if they have a 24-29 year old, cute daughter ). Just kidding man...I haven't even thought that far.

--> 1,20,000 per year

Man that's a lot...that almost comes same as what I used to pay for my Acura here (5 year payment period though).
But OMG, so over 3 years that almost comes to a total of 6,15,000. Crap..do they really have like a total of 23% in interest over 3 years totally .

What car is that by the way...if you don't mind? How much does hmm a Swift cost? I have heard from my cousins Swift is a cool car I'll settle for a 4 year payment, and pay around 10,000 per month

Could you also tell me how much it costs per month for car insurance?

--> 1,20,000 per year (Plus Insurance)

I'll need one too - at least for 6 months.

--> 36,000 (for 6 months)

I cannot breathe without internet, so a broadband is anything but a necessity.

--> 12,000

How much for cable TV or Dish TV? I'll need American channels too..like History, Travel, CNN, Discovery.

This, like I said, was a total shocker for me. I didn't think it would be this high...it might be 1,000 for my lil 1-bedroom..maybe not cuz I'll always my air conditioner runnin...even in Winters (cuz I like it at around 60 degrees).

--> 12,000 per year (a little on the low side, but lets just go for this)

I'll eat out usually (gulp gulp..unhealthy!!!) in my estimates I put like 250 per day on weekdays - cuz lunch is free, and I don't think I'll eat at 4-stars or even 3-stars. Butter Chicken, Dal Makhni and Naan from a Punjabi Dhaaba or a Masala Dosa from Dosa shops across the street or food from a Chinese Van etc are just fine with me.

So I'll say 5,000 Max for food (just counting weekdays).

--> 60,000 per year

Ohh yeah, I will need a maid to clean around the apartment.
I think I might get one for 500 for a small 1-Bedroom , just to dishes and laundry.

--> 6,000 per year

Hmm I'll say 1500 per weekend is going to be more than enough for me, as long as I stay single anyways. If I start dating..err..then I dunno..maybe I'll go bankrupt or find a second job, cuz that's like an easy 5000-6000 per weekend then.

--> 48,000 per year (assuming a quiet, no-dating life)

--> I am going to bring clothes for at least next 2 years - don't get me wrong....not that India doesn't have nice stuff (lol even US stuff is made in India), but because I am used to certain brands here that we don't have in India. Plus although I am an (proud)Indian, I am not typical Indian size

--> 0 per year

Hmm mabe I won't spend this much...I hope...let me just go with a low, conservative 4,000

--> 50,000 per year
---------------------------------------------------------------
4,65,000 (give or take)

Now, even if this number is padded, massaged..what have you..it's still a minimum 4 laks

11 laks salary includes roughly 85,000 in PF+Gratuity, so that's not something I'll get in hand.

--> In hand (before tax): 10,15,000

(since my car payments and house rent are going to be deductible from taxable income, my taxable income would be - 7,75,000)

--> Tax: 1,50,000 (roughly)

--> Money to spend (after taxes): 8,65,000
--> Expenses (from above): 4,65,000 + 48,000 (gas) + Car Insurance (??) + Cable\Dish TV (??)

--> Maximum\Best Case Savings: 3,30,000 - 3,50,000

And God bless me if I take annual trip to US or buy a big budget item (like a flat screen LCD TV, a new computer, pimp my ride, a home theater)

So 2-3 more questions:
1. Cost of a Swift in India?
2. Cost of Car Insurance (per year)?
3. Cost of Cable\Dish TV (per year) including American channels?


Thanks,
AJS

traveller.1

AJ :
mark Twain once wrote, "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
I think you are now massaging the numbers to fit the box.

take it from a guy who knows both life styles intimately. Stay put.

thejag

errr... its not as simple as that.

car payments are not deductible for computing tax

tax exemption for house rent is only for the lowest of 4 different values computed in different ways... since your salary is a lot higher than mine ever was.... you may be able to get a deduction for all of it. infact i think yes you will be able to get a rebate for it but not the car payments...

check out carwale.com.... for prices and www.icicilombard.com for car insurance rates. just fill in indicative rates to get an idea...

thejag

i second this...

ajrulez

Hmm I think you are right I was indeed trying to come up with numbers that "sound" comfortable to me. I don't need to stray down that path :-)

Ohh and yah, I am giving weight to your opinion for the same reason that you mentioned - you have seen both sides of the coin. This probably is a perfect case of grass appearing to be greener on the other side
Maybe I should spend time to get more experience, and perhaps go back to school...and see where I end up at.

Thanks man!!

ajrulez

Hi dude, thanks for chipping in with your comments too - much appreciated.

I don't want to defend myself regarding what I said about car payments being deductible. Also, I am not writing this to once again massage the numbers and try to make them comfortable for me.
Maybe this information will help you in getting your salary structured in a way you get most of it.

The way my salary is structured by the company is kinna weird, especially for someone who has always worked in the US. Here, our offer letters just have our base salaries, there is no concept of CTC (in fact I wasn't even aware of this term until I got an offer from the company).

So in my case, only close to 40% of this 11 lakhs is base salary. Remaining portion of this 11 lakhs is what the company calls "FBP", or Flexible Benefit Plan. This benefit plan lists things like:
FBP: All amounts are paid annually. An employee may use these benefits up to the maximum limit as listed below. Any unused amount for each category will be paid to the employee as taxable income.
* HRA\Company Leased Accomodation (CLA) - 2,65,000
* Company Acquired Vehicle (CAV) - 2,70,000
* Fuel - 40,000
* Vehicle Maintenance - 15,000
* LTA - 55,000
* Medical - 25,000
* Birthday Allowance: 5,000

So I asked the HR chick about this FBP, since this is comething we don't have in the US. She told me - verbally, and also sent me some policy documents - the following:

1. For Company Leased Accommodation, the company will pay the landlord a total up front cost not exceeding 11-months rent. Then this money will be deducted from my pay check before taxes each month.

2. For Company Acquired Vehicle, I will have an option to get into a 3 year, or 4 year, or 5 year payment plan. I can buy any car as long as it is not imported, and as long as I don't exceed my maximum per year pay out. So even in this case, the company will deduct a monthly car payment from my pay check before taxes.

3. Fuel for the car and car maintenance is applicable only if I go for company acquired vehicle. If I decide to buy my own car registered to my name, then I will not receive these benefits. But if I do go for a CAV, then even fuel cost and maintenance cost up to those maximum limits will be deducted from my paycheck. The company will pay for those costs on their account, and later deduct it from my salary.

4. I am sure you are aware of other things I listed like LTA, Medical etc etc.

So yeah, this is why I was excluding my car payments from taxable income...not to make the proposition look better than what it is :-)

Cheers