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Moving to Bangalor - realistic or not?


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Old Apr 22nd, 2009, 23:18   #1
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Moving to Bangalor - realistic or not?

Hi IndiaMike-ers,

I need you to help me with your advices and opinions.

I work for IT industry in the UK and me and my family of 5 people are looking forward much to move to Bangalore. My company has an outsourcing office there and was positive about my relocation request. However, they refuse to provide me "expat salary" explaining that nobody would do in time of economic recession (I myself have no idea whether it's true or not). In turn they do provide a good level of local salary in lakhs targeted to similar level of life I have now for my UK's salary.

Everything would seem pretty well if I wouldn't have some UK's loans to repay yet for couple of years, so I'm in doubt whether I can survive by reduced salary for this term. Me and my family are much less than demanding people and flexible enough to cope with decreased comfort, etc but we do have some living priorities which would like to keep in our India life.

Talking with an Indian HR person I've evaluated my monthly net income after deducting rent for basic accomodation (counting it's tax benefits) and then repaying my UK's monthly loan payment. The result turned to be approx 55,000 rupees per month. It's going to be spent for the following life style:

1) School for 3 kids. We're not after prestige at all, so don't mind if 2 younger children would attend local schools as soon as it's in English (I read its possible). Thus, for a while we concern about international school only for the eldest child due to proper GCSE preparation.

2) In accomodation questions we're not after luxury at all but do value generous living space. Central locations are not necessary too as less polluted air is way more important for me than increased travelling time (office's location is somewhere between Karmangal area and airport). In the above calculations the basic accomodation rent was evaluated as 20,000 which I guess is sort of undervaluated because I heard about prices like 30,000 and higher. Another thing is about choosing between 3 and 4 rooms (whichever available and affordable) and also between apartments and bungalous. I myself currently have no idea what options are available in Bangalore, what of them are affordable for my case and what of them are good enough.

3) For meals we tend to consume home-cooking using simple nature ingridients but time to time going for eating out on occasion. We're not fans of any sort of club and night life, pubs/restaurants experiences, etc.

4) We enjoy doing lots of activities of either sports or educational kind (normally spending all our free cash there... :-)), so we look forward to find some of the in India too. However, it's not that mandatory and in case of difficulty we can hold it for some period of time.

I'd appreciate any opinion about what to expect from India life in such circumstances (how realistic is it?) and appreciate any corrections to my possibly incorrect assumtions or incomplete info.
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Old Apr 22nd, 2009, 23:55   #2
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welcome to bangalure jone it,
Here are my answers,
I am giving you the complete break up so that you can understand the education expenses in bangalore
1)MY 2 children are studying in 6th and 8th standard in an english medium school called clarence. Their annual school fees comes to around 40000/= plus a one time admission fees of 8000/= for both of them. Their is annual books fees which comes to around 4500/= and their school van charges are 10000/= per annum.The above expenses exclude their shoes,pens,pencil, etc.
I am spending around 3500/= per child.
2) A 3 bedroom flat in a decent location will cost you around 20000/= to 25,000/= plus electricity bill,common maintance bills which might be around 2,500/= per month. Bangalore posh locations are indiranagar,koramangala, rmv,richmond town and the other decent location are frazer town, richards town, cox town, sanjaynagar, etc. These are just to name a few. Individual houses very from 10000/= t0 3,00,000/= per month.
3)Bangalure is one of costliest cities in india as far as eating outside is concerned and even shopping.
If you require any more information please feel free to post.
with regards,
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Old Apr 23rd, 2009, 19:00   #3
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Hi Jone,

Most Companies are having a relook at their Expat Policy due to the economic recession. I work for a MNC and I manage the Expatriates who move across the Globe and I can very well understand your concerns.

Now let me try to answer some of your questions.

As Kumar has already answered the schooling part in detail, i am leaving it. but just a caution, getting admission in good quality schools is not easy. Are you planning to come to bangalore on a pre view trip ? if yes that would make lot of sense to finalise the schooling and housing hunting front. these are the two major headaches one would face in any relocation.

Just view the link below to get an map view of bangalore.

You can check out apartments in Indira Nagar also as it closer to Koramangla and also the old airport road. Do you intend to look out for houses by yourself and word of mouth or through agents ? In any case for you to have an idea have a look at www.99acres.com and www.magicbricks.com where owners as well as agents advertise for properties and this would give you a fair idea of the real estate scenario.

Since you mentioned that you are very simple living and homely, there wont be much expeenses on that front and bangalore has got lot of eating joints which are not that expensive unless you go to the Leelas. Are you from India basically ? that would help to advise even better in terms of your liking.

You can become a member of a local club or even sometimes your apartment might have a big play area ( badminton or tennis ) and you can continue your sports activity.

You didnt mention about purchase of car as it is definitely required since Blore is more pollutted nowadays
and use of public transport is not recommended. Moreover you are a family of 5 and all the more it is a necessity.

Would you be able to drive the car ? if not then you should look at a SUV kind of thing like a Toyota Innova or a Scorpio or the latest Zylo. Having a driver would cost an extra 7 k

I shall stop now for the moment and take it forward again on hearing from you.

If you have any more questions, pl feel free to ask.

Bye, Raghu
Quote:
Originally Posted by jone_it View Post
Hi IndiaMike-ers,

I need you to help me with your advices and opinions.

I work for IT industry in the UK and me and my family of 5 people are looking forward much to move to Bangalore. My company has an outsourcing office there and was positive about my relocation request. However, they refuse to provide me "expat salary" explaining that nobody would do in time of economic recession (I myself have no idea whether it's true or not). In turn they do provide a good level of local salary in lakhs targeted to similar level of life I have now for my UK's salary.

Everything would seem pretty well if I wouldn't have some UK's loans to repay yet for couple of years, so I'm in doubt whether I can survive by reduced salary for this term. Me and my family are much less than demanding people and flexible enough to cope with decreased comfort, etc but we do have some living priorities which would like to keep in our India life.

Talking with an Indian HR person I've evaluated my monthly net income after deducting rent for basic accomodation (counting it's tax benefits) and then repaying my UK's monthly loan payment. The result turned to be approx 55,000 rupees per month. It's going to be spent for the following life style:

1) School for 3 kids. We're not after prestige at all, so don't mind if 2 younger children would attend local schools as soon as it's in English (I read its possible). Thus, for a while we concern about international school only for the eldest child due to proper GCSE preparation.

2) In accomodation questions we're not after luxury at all but do value generous living space. Central locations are not necessary too as less polluted air is way more important for me than increased travelling time (office's location is somewhere between Karmangal area and airport). In the above calculations the basic accomodation rent was evaluated as 20,000 which I guess is sort of undervaluated because I heard about prices like 30,000 and higher. Another thing is about choosing between 3 and 4 rooms (whichever available and affordable) and also between apartments and bungalous. I myself currently have no idea what options are available in Bangalore, what of them are affordable for my case and what of them are good enough.

3) For meals we tend to consume home-cooking using simple nature ingridients but time to time going for eating out on occasion. We're not fans of any sort of club and night life, pubs/restaurants experiences, etc.

4) We enjoy doing lots of activities of either sports or educational kind (normally spending all our free cash there... :-)), so we look forward to find some of the in India too. However, it's not that mandatory and in case of difficulty we can hold it for some period of time.

I'd appreciate any opinion about what to expect from India life in such circumstances (how realistic is it?) and appreciate any corrections to my possibly incorrect assumtions or incomplete info.
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sahana_kumar@yahoo.com
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Old Apr 24th, 2009, 04:14   #4
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Thanks a lot to all for your detailed answers! N Kumar, can you tell me what type of your schools is? I mean is it local English or some international school? The prices you shown look more affordable than I tried to figure out myself.

So, answering the questions of Raghu Kumar (hoping for more opinions about life options... :-)):

Preview trip is a good idea, of course, but I'm not sure my company would approve it. At least it didn't upon my early request but I'll try again upon finalizing my job conditions.

I'll try to use both ways of finding accomodation, so thanks for the links, will review them.

I don't know what 'Leelas' is but now I do know what to avoid. :-) I'm not Indian neither my wife is, I'm Ukrainian and my wife is from Kyrgyzstan. Apart from countries of our childhood we lived for 10 years in Russia then 10 years in the UK, so I already hope to earn proud title of "serial-expat" after moving to Bangalore! :-)

About a car, we've got an 8-seater mini-van and both can drive, so I'm going to take it with us if nothing would stop me doing than. Buying another car just doesn't fit my company's relocation package but transporting it to India should be much cheaper option. Generally, I'd prefer to drive at least as possible because I do like my bike and my IT job is not healthy enough to like it even more. :-) Now I use bike for travelling to work and we use our car mainly for long-distance travelling (and my wife drives way more than me), so I'd prefer to stick this profile as much as possible.

BTW, what's price for diesel fuel in Bangalore and around?
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Old Apr 24th, 2009, 17:25   #5
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Hi Jone,

Thanks once again for your reply.

Once again, leaving the school query to Kumar.

Pre view trip is good, if the company pays for it. Otherwise it doesnt make sense, the reason being the money you spend on flights, accommodation assuming only you and your wife come can be saved and you can start the house search options on arrival when you finally land with your entire family.

You can stay in a Serviced apartment unitl you finalise the house and till such time your goods arrive from the UK. Regarding importing your car, it doesnot stop with just shipping cost, there is duty payable and also a fine for bringing a used car in to India. The car also should have been in your name for a minimum of two years. Would your company pay for the duty/penalty along with the shipping cost ?

The Bank in which I work doesnt support shipping of motor vechicles and pets and hence you may recheck if your company would cover the same. If your company is meeting the total cost of movement, then you can close your eyes and go for it.

If you need more details about how much will be the duty/penalty, let me know the details of the car and i shall get it for you. While you may post your responses in this forum itself, just mail me only the car details.

The cost of diesel should be around 37 or 38 INR and Petrol should be around 50 INR. its slightly costlier than other states.

Cheers ! Raghu



Quote:
Originally Posted by jone_it View Post
Thanks a lot to all for your detailed answers! N Kumar, can you tell me what type of your schools is? I mean is it local English or some international school? The prices you shown look more affordable than I tried to figure out myself.

So, answering the questions of Raghu Kumar (hoping for more opinions about life options... :-)):

Preview trip is a good idea, of course, but I'm not sure my company would approve it. At least it didn't upon my early request but I'll try again upon finalizing my job conditions.

I'll try to use both ways of finding accomodation, so thanks for the links, will review them.

I don't know what 'Leelas' is but now I do know what to avoid. :-) I'm not Indian neither my wife is, I'm Ukrainian and my wife is from Kyrgyzstan. Apart from countries of our childhood we lived for 10 years in Russia then 10 years in the UK, so I already hope to earn proud title of "serial-expat" after moving to Bangalore! :-)

About a car, we've got an 8-seater mini-van and both can drive, so I'm going to take it with us if nothing would stop me doing than. Buying another car just doesn't fit my company's relocation package but transporting it to India should be much cheaper option. Generally, I'd prefer to drive at least as possible because I do like my bike and my IT job is not healthy enough to like it even more. :-) Now I use bike for travelling to work and we use our car mainly for long-distance travelling (and my wife drives way more than me), so I'd prefer to stick this profile as much as possible.

BTW, what's price for diesel fuel in Bangalore and around?
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Old Apr 24th, 2009, 18:59   #6
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clarence high school is one of the oldest english schools in bangalore run by chirstians. It is at par with any other schools in bangalore and getting an seat is difficult.
Accomodation :
This is a very expensive family job, you will be shelling out roughly 35 to 40 percent of your income as rentand maintance alone and you have to pay a deposit of ten months rent as advance to the landlord. The other option is, if you can lease a house/flat by paying a one time deposit (refundable after the vacating) of 25 to 30 times the rent, you need not pay the monthly rent.
Driving in bangalore ooh my god ???????????
with regards,
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Old Apr 24th, 2009, 19:09   #7
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Thanks Raghu,

I've sent you details of the car by email.

Some time ago I've encountered some Indian gov site in the internet stating that taking exactly one own car is allowed when moving for residency if... (there're several conditions there). Do I really need to pay lots of taxes if I comply to all those conditions for a personal vehicle for residental moving?
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Old Apr 24th, 2009, 19:25   #8
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Originally Posted by n kumar View Post
Driving in bangalore ooh my god ???????????
As I explained, I'm not going to drive much IN Blor, but for making long trips and travelling.

About moving around the city I've collected several opinions so far:

a) driving is a bad idea (crazy trafic, jams)

b) public bus is a bad idea (BTW, why? well, despite of just "normal" issues as pick-pocketing and overcrowding, anything else to consider?)

c) bike (non-motor) is a bad idea too (hot weather, polluted air)

d) riding motor-bike is a bad idea if India is the 1st motorbiking experience (I never tried it before) plus polluted air

e) I really don't like an idea to hire a driver (by personal reasons), plus all jams problems are still in place

So, what is left apart from walking which is not effective in many ways? It seems the city is just immobile at all, that's my conclusion from a)-e). Or any other missing options to escape somehow from such immobility? BTW about jams: do they exist in off-peak time or the peak-time is all round 24hr in Blor? :-)
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Old Apr 24th, 2009, 21:37   #9
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Got your mail and you must have seen my response. Lets await more details on the same.

Reg your query, I am answering the last one. yes traffic is high 24/7 as Blore is getting choked due to the influx of people everyday as everyone feels that Bangalore is a happening place and opportunities exist in plenty. There is a limit whch the city can take the load and then it becomes uncontrollable.

have a good weekend.

Raghu

Quote:
Originally Posted by jone_it View Post
As I explained, I'm not going to drive much IN Blor, but for making long trips and travelling.

About moving around the city I've collected several opinions so far:

a) driving is a bad idea (crazy trafic, jams)

b) public bus is a bad idea (BTW, why? well, despite of just "normal" issues as pick-pocketing and overcrowding, anything else to consider?)

c) bike (non-motor) is a bad idea too (hot weather, polluted air)

d) riding motor-bike is a bad idea if India is the 1st motorbiking experience (I never tried it before) plus polluted air

e) I really don't like an idea to hire a driver (by personal reasons), plus all jams problems are still in place

So, what is left apart from walking which is not effective in many ways? It seems the city is just immobile at all, that's my conclusion from a)-e). Or any other missing options to escape somehow from such immobility? BTW about jams: do they exist in off-peak time or the peak-time is all round 24hr in Blor? :-)
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Old Apr 24th, 2009, 22:31   #10
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Jone,
the traffic snarls in b'lore are legendary. There is a 10-15 minute at each traffic signal. The style of driving is best described as avoid hitting anyone (first/second gear) defensive driving.
I mean you can come here, get some driving lessons for a month and see if you can hack it here. Otherwise get a driver
I'm not sure about expats but the duty on car imports are prohibitive. New car= 125 % duty
old car = i think a 8 % depreciation every year etc just google for all the details.
Plus if you car breaks down, who's gonna repair it ?
The mechanics around here have a hard enough time repairing the cars that are manufactured here, let alone a car they have no idea about.. they are a nightmare to deal with as well.
food is generally very expensive (especially western stuff like olive oil,vinaegrettes, italian herbs etc). Meat is expensive as well.
If you are vegan/vegetarian then there's no issues.
Other expensive stuff include convection ovens, health club memberships etc.
This is all that I can recall right away. Other's please chime in and correct me if i am mistaken in any way.

Last edited by rajnag : Apr 24th, 2009 at 22:33. Reason: spelling
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Old Apr 24th, 2009, 23:32   #11
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Traffic jams are usually at office hours say between 9 to 11 am and again around 5 pm to 7 or 8 pm. The prices of disel in bangalore is 34.85. Repairing a car in bangalore is not a problem. Bangalore is considered as one of the best public transportation system in india or even south east asia. You have buses from cheaper ones to high end aircon buses.
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Old Apr 25th, 2009, 00:36   #12
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n_kumar,
he's talking about a minivan that's not produced locally in India.
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Old Apr 25th, 2009, 02:37   #13
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Originally Posted by rajnag View Post
n_kumar,
he's talking about a minivan that's not produced locally in India.
Correct, it's been produced in Japan and was not easy to repair and get parts in the UK too. I don't know whether India is connected to Japan somewhat better at all (despite of closer location), but if assuming the worst, what option would I have for buying a 7- or 8- seater mini-van in India? Preferrably Japanese one but if it's not an option for some reasons, then from some decent India maker? And I'm not after new car at all, second-hand will go even better.

P.S. Yes, about driving in India I've heard enough horrible descriptions that just heated my curiosity and crazyness beyond measure about mastering the Indian style myself. :-)
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Old Apr 25th, 2009, 14:18   #14
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Jone,
they call 'em muv's out here. Multi utility vehicles. Indians are very pedantic in the way they label vehicle categories.
Off hand the best bet would be Toyota innova. it's a 7 seater that can seat 8 in a pinch. You can get a used one here. They run on diesel, decent mileage. It's a lot cheaper than the honda cr-v. I hope you know how to drive standard trasmission vehicles.
http://www.carwale.com/research/suv_...e-cars/toyota/
Check out these sites as well for reviews and comparisions
http://www.mouthshut.com/product-rev...925048188.html
http://carsinindia.com/innova.asp
http://www.overdrive.in/story-news-mu/tata_motors_revised_muv_sumo_g rande-3751-0.html

Check out team-bhp.com/forum as this is the premier automotive forum in India.

Cheers

Last edited by rajnag : Apr 25th, 2009 at 14:19. Reason: add detail
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Old Apr 25th, 2009, 19:11   #15
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Rajnag,

You're right, I'm yet to master all this terminology (as just a week ago had not even rough idea what are SUVs or MUVs ^_^). And after some research about Indian import rules I concluded that will need to say bye-bye to my lovely minivan and stick to those less spacier and less handy for long travelling SUVs. Thanks for all the recommendations above, will research them soon.
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