Moving from London to Bangalore?

londongirl9

I can't see that option (maybe I am just being Blonde...)
Also, meant to thank The Londoner for the invite to the London meet up but sadly I am busy this weekend. If there is another one I would love to come.
Thanks again!

The_Londoner

Awww.. that's pity.. It seems it's going to be a fun afternoon having not met a single person before.. Hey, good luck with moving to Bangalore.. I know I can't wait, though my trip is months away..

I believe you may not be able to send a PM until you have sent 10 or so messages.. few more and the options will be available to you..

__________________
Idle mind is a Devil's workshop.

Nick-H

The PM system is not available to blondes.

Sorry, but we had to withdraw it after repeated misunderstanding an misuse... ... ... ...



Err... Seriously, the PM system is available to blondes, after they clock up five posts and fifteen days membership.*

And if you think that's bad, you should see the extra rules for red-heads!




*Actually, it's the same for everyone.

Except red-heads, of course .

__________________
.


Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

The_Londoner

tecolote

Hi, londongirl9.

You can find flats with varying degrees of furniture here. Mine came with TV, fridge, sofa, 2 chairs, coffee table, ceiling fans, bed and a wardrobe. I had to buy a stove.

The furniture is decent, but I did see a couple of places with very dodgy-looking furniture before finding this one.

You can get broadband, the cost with Airtel is INR 995 a month flat rate for the fastest speed. It just might take a while to get it sorted. It was the most complicated and difficult transaction I've had in India so far! But that doesn't seem to be the norm; I think I was just unlucky.

londongirl9

Thanks for all the help.

Ive been looking online at apartments but its very confusing! How easy will I find it to find a nice place. Will it be furnished etc.?

Thanks again

machadinha

I've been wondering about the same. I understand Bangalore is a hip and happening place, but, the actual market value of your particular job and so on aside, wouldn't 50k/month be a handsome sum for Indian standards, and don't whole families who aren't even necessarily poor have to get by on far less? Or is that completely off the mark?

__________________
Reading tips, all picked up at IndiaMike : INDAX's A Comprehensive Guide To India / Dinoj Surendran's Desi Humor / ITHVC on Culture Shock & Travel Health / JetLag Travel Guides For the Undiscerning Traveller / India Travel Links

traveller.1

Guys I think I was the one who first expounded the belief that 50 grand a month in India is not much. Well its like this. In the west housing is all pretty similar, except in really huge cities such as London, Chicago, Philly, NY etc where the differences in rent are great between say manhattan and say jackson Heights. For the most part apartments are clean, airconditioned, have a parking space and refrigerator, microwave, washing machine etc.

In India apartments can be from very nice to hazards to humanity. The price of course is proportionate to the goodness! The problem is that what is average or even mediocre in the West is towards the top tier in India. So if one wants an apartment thats reaonably decent by western stanndards and doesnt have an open sewer in front of it, then they are fairly expensive, and you need to get your own AC, refrigerator and microwave etc which adds to your cost.

Same thing for restaurants. Either you have the really good ones or you have the average(read basic ones, not very clean). The bars where you can get a drink for less than say say Rs200.00 are usually quite seedy and london girl (presumptious of me)is unliely to want to go there, belly up to the bar and make friends. Some people will be fine with it some wont. In the west every one goes to places like TGI Fridays or Mcdonalds or Pizza Hut or the neighborhood bar and its quite fine and affordable. In India those same places are expensive. In Chennai I had a bottle of wine that cost way too much at abot USD40 a bottle. Imagine my surprise the tax on it was 73%. So it actually cost USD70!!

As for night clubs, they are out of sight price wise.

Same thing for transport. Buses are cheap, motorcycles are cheap travel. But can LOndon girl do either. Taxis, Three wheelers on a regular basis are expensive, as is electricity, airconditioning, laundry,phones, internet, etc.

Its one thing to be on vacation hanging out like so many westerners do. But work is different. WE go away for camping during vacations in the States a lot, but it does not mean we are willing to sleep on the floor in our own homes.

And then on her 50 grand she also needs to pay a hefty incometax.

Unless she is young, marginally educated, no responsibilities at home, no mortgage to keep up with in London, no savings plans to pay into, I do not think it is a good deal. Especially because her employer can and shouild pay her more. I do not know about England, but in the US Rs 600000 per year is below poverty line and it entitles one to state assistance. To grab a job that will result in no financial savings,(Yes a great experience)is not very wise. I think the employer should be able to shell out more than he would pay for a similar job in England. Their should be some cost associated with sending an employee overseas, 5000 miles from home. One needs to do better than one is doing at home.

I had a similar stint in India and I was paid considerably more money. Even so I thought that the hotels or the restaurants in them were extremely expensive. yet I went to them because the other bars were really seedy, and the average restaurant was quite dirty.

Sure people get by with a lot less. For an Indian that is a lot, but we are spoilt in the west. WE spend very little on food clothing and shelter. Most of us think of things as necessities while in India they are still luxuries. In the west we eat out at least one meal a day. Most Indians do not. WE have central AC and heat, running hot and cold water. An absence of these things in the US classifies a house as unfit for human habitation. That is what we are accustomed to and that costs money a lot of it in India. Here these are luxuries

So I may be wrong but if it was me I'd want more. I think your employer is really shortchanging you. But to a mind thats made up all counter views become argumentative and all supporting views validate the decision.

And dont send me hate mail about being negative. Im calling it like I see it. I love India and try to come often. All Im trying to do is steer London Girl into asking for a couple more buckaroos!!! Ask and it shall be given unto thee. Just try!! You can thank me when you get it.

mazha

Or trying to keep the "expat margin" high!

To give a different perspective on the west, there are thousands of graduate students living in North America earning around 1000$ a month, which is less than 50k INR. They are not considered to be below the poverty line, and they make do by renting houses together. This includes foreign as well as domestic grad students.

And there are thousands of folks with Ph.Ds (foreign & domestic) working as researchers for 3000$, which doesn't leave a lot of money for wine and eating out, once you pay the rent (usually around 1200, more if you are in big cities), medical insurance and taxes. So having more than marginal education doesn't necessarily ensure big bucks. Moreover, many of these folks with PhDs (of Indian origin) will return to India to take up jobs in academia, which pays 25K a month! I am told now there are even non-Indians interested in teaching jobs, so the expat margin is coming down rather fast!

Eating out in a Chinese restaurant (considered cheap) here costs around 10-15$ per person (400-600), in India there are still places where you can get a full course meal with fish fry for 15 Rs! They may not be clean by western standards, serving food in banana leaves atop rickety benches. Though I would take that any day over microwaved food laced with preservatives! But then, I am Indian.

I would say 50K is a good deal **for India**, regardless of your educational background. Particularly if your objective is just to see India and get experience, and not save/make money.

Nick-H

Maybe you are being negative --- but I'm holding the hate mail!

No... I think you are describing the situation in black and white, whereas the truth is that there are an infinite number of shades of grey. There is accommodation to suit all budgets; it is not a case of choosing between a thatched hut and a five-star hotel. There is food to suit all budgets, in clean restaurants too. Rs50,000 per month is a very good wage in India.

I wonder what's become of Londongirl, and if she has made her decision yet? It would be nice to know!

But on one point of principle I'd absolutely agree with traveller.1: her employers should not be getting her on the cheap. I'd expect an expat deal to be more like 50K, plus the housing paid for, plus a car and driver made available, etc etc.

I suppose it all depends on whether she is a key management person that they need to send here, or whether they are doing her a bit of a favour in putting the experience her way.

Categorically, no-one should accept less pay than they are receiving already, for the inconvenience of being separated from family, home and friends.

By the way: get that house provided, and take the boyfriend with you! You can both live on 50K!

traveller.1

Mazha, a student earning $1000.00 is not considered in poverty, is only because his/her profession is student. He/She is a full time student doing part time work for $1000. Londoon Girl is going to be a full time employee not a student

As for 1000s of PHDs doing research for $30000, they chose what they are getting, just as London Girl is choosing what she is going to get. That is my precise point. Think of your self as worth more and you will be worth more. Jobs are a free trade. Wages are the price of labor. If you undervalue your labor, just as with any product, then the buyer will buy your labor at the price quoted. I am saying quote a higher price. Before the world can place a higher value on you, you must yourself believe you are worth more. Instead of comparing oneself with the underpaid Phds, one should instead compare oneself witrh the millions more who are educated less and earning more. Dare to believe and dare to aim high.

I over the years have hired many many people and i can tell you wages for exactly the same job have varied by as much as a 100%, because some candidates did not think to ask for more.

machadinha

It's pretty much like I thought; Traveller, I won't be hate-mailing you (why would I, I see absolutely no reason to), but speaking for the royal WE in the West, some of us don't live the lifestyle you described out of choice. I realize full well the expat life with all mod cons will cost a dear lot more and will easily rival or even top that in the west, but maybe some of us just don't want it. And, to chime in with Mazha above, I don't mind eating off a banana leaf so to speak, in fact I quite enjoy such settings.

Other than that, I fully agree to check if you're being paid reasonably both to local standards, and to what your company if it's an international-based one can afford or is paying others in similar positions or should reasonably owe you; and to not accept any downpayment just for the "honor" of being sent abroad. I think this was never established in the original or subsequent questions though (if the company is an international one, or what the further set-up might be).

Beyond that, I don't think there's much point in translating an Indian salary to a US one, any more than there is in translating the price of a bread. (To do the latter the other way around though I often found helpful in convincing people I wasn't rich just for being a westerner.)

As Londongirl noted before:

I would presume the same.

mazha

Sure, but my point was that 1000$ is not all that bad even in the US, if you are willing to go for shared accomodation.

Actually, you are worth 1)how much money your employer has and 2) what other people are willing to accept. You cannot ask for more money in research jobs, even if you think you are worth more. Simply because there is less money with your employer, and there are lots of others willing to work for that salary. Again, not because they think they are worth that, but because if you love that kind of work, there is no other option. You could of course move to the industry and make big bucks designing chemicals that improve the sheen of Twinkies or some such thing, but some people prefer not to do that. So acceptable salary depends on what tradeoffs you are willing to make as well.

Londongirl's salary would also depend on the same lines. If there are people willing to work in India for less just for the experience, then obviously they won't pay her more. So you should bargain keeping in mind the larger picture and the trends, not what you think you are worth. And my sense is that the salary trend for expats, including Indian expats, is downwards, simply because there are more people interested in the move.

machadinha

Yes, quite (and obviously loved the Twinkies analogy )

ps I reckon one obvious thing to take into account though is that for want of a local social network or general familiarity with the ways of life there (or perhaps indeed the need for the occasional "comfort food" etc.), as a foreigner you'll always be off living a more costly life by definition, or at least until you're well and firmly grounded, which I imagine and hear can take quite a while. I mean I imagine and as far I know Indians in general have a lot to thank to their extended families and so on, even if they move to work or study in another city (although I hear the latter is extremely hard on many, precisely because of this, it's like losing your safety net, I suppose many members here will be able to attest -- or refute it); as a foreigner you just won't have any of that, other than the occasional call or e-mail home maybe.

In a Bangalore office environment btw I can imagine there'd be peer pressure to join the gang to those tacky bars etc. that you don't necessarily like and can't really afford, which could be another complication. I just don't know about that, never tried and I don't know the city. I suppose your direct colleagues at least won't be any better off than you, but then again maybe they can eat home at mommy's or a friend's next day, or maybe they'll just try to keep up appearances and find other ways to make do.

mazha

Thanks, but this is true. I know of chemical engineering Ph.Ds from IIT working for potato chip companies, earning 6-figure salaries optimizing the crunchiness and the colour and such. Phenomenal waste of India's money, I think. More on Twinkies here:

http://www.amazon.com/Twinkie-Decons.../dp/1594630186

Um, if you are saying that the expat margin is intended to offset some of that relocation pain, I would argue that every Indian student and researcher moving to the west should be paid an equivalent margin, or maybe even double that, for the pain s/he has to go through in adapting to the West! Imagine shifting to McDonald's from home-cooked food everyday! Plus the weird looks, judgmental supervisors, resultant insecurity, the suspicious (and sometimes nasty) customs & immigration folks, cold cold weather, accent issues....