Is it necessary to change one's name while converting into Hindu?

#31 Oct 21st, 2011, 12:25
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#31
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Originally Posted by federica View Post ADS = Attention Deficit Syndrome
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Originally Posted by Aerials View Post I do not know what ADS is.

Documenting your religious journey? Document yourself praying in a temple? Document eating prasad? Doing yoga? Doing head wobble? Hain-ji? Nonsense!!


That's the problem. It has to set a process. With multiple marriage laws and religion based reservations, this is very much needed. It cannot reach an arbitrary verdict in each case.
The court in the cases you mention, made it clear in what it will accept as evidence. In absence of it, case law will prevail. Multiple marriage laws argument is a red-herring; while a unified civil marriage laws exist in many countries, the religious ceremonies are merely obligatory.

Courts give reasons for reaching a decision if here is a hearing. One man's justice is other man's injustice.

The two cases you illustrate were essentially brought as 420s
#32 Oct 22nd, 2011, 00:00
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#32
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Originally Posted by nycank View Post The court in the cases you mention, made it clear in what it will accept as evidence. In absence of it
What is this evidence supposed to be?
#33 Oct 22nd, 2011, 08:40
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#33
Interesting... so if you are a foreigner of undeclared religion from a foreign country, (My Canadian passport doesn't have a place for religion. For all intents and purposes, I'm a Hindu) what religion are you legally in India? (In most western countries, religion is irrelevant to law.)

My thinkiing is that in Indai there may be a place on legal forms like birth certificates, and 'no religion' may not be an option. No wonder they call it red tape.
#34 Oct 22nd, 2011, 13:06
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#34
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Originally Posted by Aerials View Post I still think that there is no legal way to convert
I asked a question that nobody wanted to answer!
Any temple or Arya Samaj can conduct Shudhikaran ritual and issue a conversion certificate.

I am not interested to discuss how legal the very practice of issuing such conversion certificates is.
I am asking why some temples (or Arya Samaj) require a change of name into a Hindu name, while other temples don't require it.

If you don't know anything regarding this matter, don't hijack my topic, ok?
#35 Oct 22nd, 2011, 18:16
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First of all, there is such thing as conversion in indian religions. The concept is fairly new. That means any temples or organizations can create their own conversion laws and clauses. That means you have to abide by their rules or no deal. If they say you need a name change, then you pick a different name ASAP. If they don't ask you to change, good for you.

BTW, what is this urge you have to marry according to the arya samaj temple only? I don't understand. You seem to like your existing name. Why go through HMA at all when we already have the special marriage act?

My advise to you, register marriage as per special marriage act. It won't ask you to change your name. Your marriage will be legal under the state. Problem solved. Sorry for hijacking your thread.

*Correction:
there is NO such thing as conversion in indian religions
Last edited by JuliaF; Oct 22nd, 2011 at 23:08.. Reason: merged posts
#36 Oct 22nd, 2011, 18:57
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#36
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Originally Posted by gayatri990 View Post I am asking why some temples (or Arya Samaj) require a change of name into a Hindu name, while other temples don't require it.

Simple answer of Why: Because they can !

Because there is no central arbitrator of correct and incorrect. The local priest and local customs and rituals are relatively free to do as they want. Unlike abrahamic religions, there is no preachy, pontificaty sermony dictat.

Vedic hermeneutics is not illuminating or guiding light on praxis and ritualistic transformations; and very difficult to deconstruct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerials View Post *Correction:
there is NO such thing as conversion in indian religions
Huh ? Sikhism, Buddhism, all have conversions and grew out of conversions
#37 Oct 22nd, 2011, 19:12
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#37
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Originally Posted by nycank View Post Huh ? Sikhism, Buddhism, all have conversions are grew out of conversions
They didn't convert. It is not dogma.

All indian spirituality does is to try and maintain the "status quo" of free thinking indians not bound by dogmatic doctrines. It means they can take what they already have or start from scratch altogether.

Conversion is logical in dogmatic religions. But it is an alien term in indian religions.
#38 Oct 22nd, 2011, 19:46
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#38
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Originally Posted by Aerials View Post *Correction:
there is NO such thing as conversion in indian religions
Not really true, but yes that is the common knowledge. I carry a conversion certificate, (not Arya Samaj) and it was certainly accepted as proof to enter the Madurai Meenakshi temple. But it was the priests and temple management who decided, not a court of law. Regarding law, I have no idea. Certainly people can convert out of Indian religions into Christianity, although that's changing in some places. Perhaps all these conversions were illegal by law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycank View Post Simple answer of Why: Because they can !

Because there is no central arbitrator of correct and incorrect. The local priest and local customs and rituals are relatively free to do as they want. Unlike abrahamic religions, there is no preachy, pontificaty sermony dictat.
Totally agree.
Last edited by JuliaF; Oct 22nd, 2011 at 23:09.. Reason: merged posts
#39 Oct 22nd, 2011, 22:01
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@Eastern Mind
I do not have much to say about politics in religion. India's history is difficult. I find your compulsion to get a conversion certificate very ridiculous. However, it that gives you access to some indian temples then consider it as a short-cut in overcoming tainted histories.
#40 Oct 22nd, 2011, 22:19
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Originally Posted by Aerials View Post @Eastern Mind
I do not have much to say about politics in religion. India's history is difficult. I find your compulsion to get a conversion certificate very ridiculous. However, it that gives you access to some indian temples then consider it as a short-cut in overcoming tainted histories.
Not a compulsion at all. It was entirely on my own volition, and a natural outcome of a process. There is no need whatsoever for anyone to follow suit. My personal view was just 'if it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, thinks like a duck, then it should probably be called a mallard or merganser, not a mango. I'm not personally big on certificates of any kind, but we still have to hold birth certificates, marriage certificates, university degree certificates, passports, etc.
#41 Oct 23rd, 2011, 03:17
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just to clarify the conversion issue wrt sikhs. what a non sikh can do is be initiated into the khalsa panth.

It is also the duty of every sikh child to prepare themselves to be initiated in the same way and to follow the code of conduct laid down for amritdharis.

Also this ceremony has been around almost as long as Sikhism has existed since this was started by the 10th guru.

AFAIK nor is a certificate issued nor will one be accepted (even if you some how obtain one) as proof that one is a sikh or a khalsa.

Its the physical appearance that identifies one as a sikh (the unshorn hair, the turban for men or keski for women and any other of the 5k's that they want to sport) and the presence of the 5K's is the identity of a amritdhari khalsa.
meh...
#42 Oct 23rd, 2011, 07:06
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#42
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Originally Posted by gayatri990 View Post I asked a question that nobody wanted to answer!
Any temple or Arya Samaj can conduct Shudhikaran ritual and issue a conversion certificate.

I am not interested to discuss how legal the very practice of issuing such conversion certificates is.
I am asking why some temples (or Arya Samaj) require a change of name into a Hindu name, while other temples don't require it.

If you don't know anything regarding this matter, don't hijack my topic, ok?
I'm gonna give this another shot. I think the name change goes hand in hand with the ritual. In most Arya Samaj temples, the conversion is actually back to Hinduism after someone had converted over to Christianity by what the Arya Samaj would have considered an unethical conversion. In that case they may or may not have changed their name to a Christian one. I am not at all familiar with any group or temple that does conversion without a change of name. Certainly in the more well known conversions to Islam in the west (Muhammad Ali, Kareem Abdul Jabbar) there is an accompanying change of name.) So can you give us the name of the other temples you know that don't require it? Here's a link that might help. http://aryasamajthane.com/conversion.html
#43 Oct 23rd, 2011, 08:50
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#43
Gayatri990, on a forum (at least), you get what you pay for.
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