Let's Get Leh'd June 07

hitanshu · Feb 28th, 2007, 09:07

Tentative itinerary:

Date ETD ETA Place 1 3am 7pm delhi-Marhi/Gulaba/Kothi 2 6am 3pm Marhi - pang 3 8am 4pm Pang - leh 4

leh 5 6am 7pm Leh-nubra-leh 6 6am 8pm Leh-Pangong/Marsimek 7 5am 6pm Pangong-Chushul-Nyoma-Hanle 8 6am 5pm Handle Nyoma Tso Moriri 9 6am 4pm Tso moriri-Tso Kar-Debring -Sarchu-Darcha 10 5am 8pm Darcha-Koksar-Kaza 11

Stay at Kaza 12 5am 6pm Kaza-Tabo-Chitkul/Sangla 13 9am 7pm Sangla-Narkanda 14 8am 7pm Narkanda-delhi

Stay at Kaza 12 5am 6pm Kaza-Tabo-Chitkul/Sangla 13 9am 7pm Sangla-Narkanda 14 8am 7pm Narkanda-delhi http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pyGEEmv2RaGrWxWX93jb4P g is the spreadsheet. Your kind comments please.

AMS aside (which can hit anytime), rest my bigger koshun is that ifff I'm willing to ride out of Leh at 4am, cross Khardungla by 6am, and _*touch*_ Panamik/Hunder and come back by 8pm, then tell me the way/specific pitfalls/nullahs as well.

I love night riding, and ain't afraid of doing it solo. Will potter back at 30 kph if situation demands, or take shelter if some blizzard hits.

I just want to outline and plan the worst case scenarios and see how best I can attack it. If I stop for evening by 2-3pm, then I will go mad. I can't sit still in one place for that long ever

Plus, its just a plan. If bike screws up (like last time) or some shit happens, then i'll army /truck hitch & bike load and come home

that's the worst na?

Tell me the worst that can happen/that I will encounter, and tell me how to endure it

kolobar · Feb 28th, 2007, 19:43

It is not true that AMS can hit anytime. But it will most certainly hit you if you go from Delhi to 5000m in 2 days. That is definitely the worst that can/most probably will happen.

hitanshu · Feb 28th, 2007, 23:20

Quote:

It is not true that AMS can hit anytime. But it will most certainly hit you if you go from Delhi to 5000m in 2 days. That is definitely the worst that can/most probably will happen.

Given that I plan to stay on day one around 25-3000m (pref marhi-3250m). and day two I would be at sarchu (+1000m). Even pang is similar. Thus, I reckon it should not be *all that bad*.

Rather, let's put it this ways. If I take enough rest/liquids/garlic or any other recommendation that y'all tell me, can it be done?

See, common sense tells me its pretty much over the top and infeasible with potential AMS hazards. Plain ole obstinacy instead wants to find out a way

Is there something you'd recommend?

AvidTrekker · Feb 28th, 2007, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitanshu

Given that I plan to stay on day one around 25-3000m (pref marhi-3250m). and day two I would be at sarchu (+1000m). Even pang is similar. Thus, I reckon it should not be *all that bad*.

Rather, let's put it this ways. If I take enough rest/liquids/garlic or any other recommendation that y'all tell me, can it be done?

See, common sense tells me its pretty much over the top and infeasible with potential AMS hazards. Plain ole obstinacy instead wants to find out a way

Is there something you'd recommend?

Seems you are not in a mood to listen. Kolobar really gave you good advice.

Experience is the best teacher.... so... experience it

Remember that the wise man learns from other people's bad experiences...

sunilg · Mar 1st, 2007, 01:37

AvidTrekker: Problem with us is that we bikers usually don't have enough time/leaves in our hands, and we have to be a little stubborn at times to achieve those 'ambitious' goals..

and I guess that 'stubborn' attitude is an integral part of biker's profile.

.

p.s.: Just my two cents, Hitanshu would be the best person to answer this.

Quote:

wise man learns from others' bad experience.

fully agree

kolobar · Mar 1st, 2007, 04:55

On day two before you reach Pang you will also be at 5.060m Lachalang la.
There is nothing - no liquid, garlic, ginseng, diamox or ignorance - that can replace adaptation of the body to altitude. It can only ease its side effects, but when we are talking AMS, side effects are not your main problem. You should also consider that between Baralacha la and Taglang la you are stuck at 4000+ altitude with no easy escape to lower altitude in case of emergency.
To Sunilg:
I could not care less about some bikers (self) mistifications. I am sure people have done even more stupid things than biking from Delhi to Leh in 3 days and get away with it. It is not some achievment to be proud of to rush into danger like an idiot and hope sheer luck will help you out. I just hope there is some dady - a high army officer in the background who can provide emergency helicopter rescue.

sunilg · Mar 1st, 2007, 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolobar

I could not care less about some bikers (self) mistifications. I am sure people have done even more stupid things than biking from Delhi to Leh in 3 days and get away with it. It is not some achievment to be proud of to rush into danger like an idiot and hope sheer luck will help you out. I just hope there is some dady - a high army officer in the background who can provide emergency helicopter rescue.

Kolobar: Neither was I encouraging Hitanshu to go for it and nor i am puzzled enough to ignore the dangers that he might face during it. Knowing him personally and his tight leave schedule (and somehow being in the similar situation myself) I just wanted to explain what is the basic reason behind his plan; and by doing this, I was trying to make situation more clear to get some better tips, ideas. Hope this clears everything.

and yes, everybody has different definition of 'achievement' and 'stupidity'. There are people on this forum itself who have done Delhi-Leh-Delhi in around 5 days, on bike of course. He pulled it out successfully, you might call an achievement; he'd have looked stupid, if it wasn't the case. So, there is no harm in trying (of course, not crossing that thin line between stupidity and bravery).

Peace.

Dr.Barai · Mar 1st, 2007, 19:15

Does traveling means covering the distance between two places? Just reaching from one place to another in the least possible time depending on the mode of transportation at disposal? If it is so, then the sumo drivers of the leh-manali road are probably the greatest travelers of all!!!!!!

hitanshu · Mar 2nd, 2007, 04:21

a. Kolobar, your points are completely valid. However, having seen evidence to quite the contrary let's just say that I will tempt my luck.
http://torquetravels.blogspot.com/ - Manali then Sarchu and Leh. All of three days.
2200kms to Heaven and back. -two days a side

http://www.bcmtouring.com/forum/view...t=138&start=60
http://www.yogeshsarkar.com/trips/ladakh05/ladakh.htm

My point is simple - i've seen enough guys do it. Almost every other google link tells me that the AMS possibility is high, etc etc. I'm here because I believe there are ways to be better prepared.

Moreover, current route is highly optimistic, but is being reworked. Another thing I was hoping was route feedback with specific info on route conditions and pitfalls/nullahs/... to avoid!

PS: Sunil is correct. Leaves aren't plentiful.

PPS: Doc Barai, i remember you posting some distances from Karu (some green over the road signage you had posted). Could you repost it please?

hitanshu · Mar 2nd, 2007, 04:53

Revised tour pilaan

ETD ETA Place Notes Mileage Total 3am 7pm delhi-Marhi/Gulaba/Kothi
580 580 6am 3pm Marhi - pang
280 860 8am 4pm Pang - leh
220 1080 leh (rest to preapre for next MAD days)
30 1110 6am 7pm Leh-Panamik
170 1280 5am 6pm Panamik-Deskit/Hunder-Leh
200 1480 6am 8pm Leh-Pangong-Leh
300 1780 7am 4pm Leh-Nyoma
170 1950 5am 6pm Nyoma-Hanle-Nyoma
160 2110 6am 5pm Nyoma Tso Moriri
180 2290 6am 4pm Tso moriri-Tso Kar-Debring -Sarchu-Darcha
280 2570 5am 8pm Darcha-Koksar-Losar Stop at Koksar if things get tough 170 2740

Losar- Kaza-Tabo (Rest) 105 2845 5am 6pm Tabo--Powari-Chitkul/Sangla
170 3015 5am 10pm Sangla-Delhi
610 3625
Comments on the *route*

Dr.Barai · Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:39

i guess repost is not allowed. but i can mail u the distance chart hitanshu. r u planning Marhi to Pang in 9 hours? well we have regular traffic congestion on rhotang pass and it generally clears only after 1pm.last june i was cought in a traffic jam and to my misfortune it was raining/snowing too. I consider myself lucky to escape frostbite but did lose sensation over few toes permanently.So plan carefully.

kmalik · Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:46

Hey -

I am no expert, but if AMS-risk was the driver for your modifications - you did not accomplish it. Apart from the issues riding through high passes - your biggest exposure comes from the overnight stay in Pang (much higher than recommended - way too quickly). The way to reduce it is by overnighting in Keylong (i.e. lower sleeping elevation). AMS often strikes at night...

You'll perhaps not like that as it does not suite your time line. While there is no way to counter anecdotes and real-life experiences of those that have done it without difficulty, the AMS - when it happens - can be rather deadly. As they say - your mileage may vary. So, at the very least - look at something like: http://www.ismmed.org/np_altitude_tutorial.htm to educate yourself.

kolobar · Mar 2nd, 2007, 18:23

I dont think there is any sense to advise these guys. They are abusing this forum for showing off their "madness", "dareness", "stuborness" and a crap like that. It has nothing to do with sharing useful informations about travelling in India. They just want to make impression and draw attention. But I am afraid the only one who is impressed are themselves.

Yogesh Sarkar · Mar 3rd, 2007, 04:53

Kolobar stubborn, kind of, most of us bikers are. But the fact is plans are just that, a plan. The real stuff happens when a person saddles up for the ride and leaves the comfort of his home behind. Most of the time these plans change on the fly, destinations are dropped, riding plans and speed changed etc.

Regarding doing Delhi - Manali - Leh in three days, well I did that last year, Delh - Manali - Sarchu - Leh. That was done without once pushing myself or my bike and guess what I didn't get AMS. But I agree, staying in Pang isn't a good idea. In fact it doesn't makes any sense since even if he is staying at Sarchu he would reach Leh by evening, at the max three hours late than if he was staying in Pang.

Hitanshu all of the people replying here and at BCMT are doing so because they care, some time it is better to learn from others experiences. Also if I remember correctly you have Asthma, under the above circumstances you can get in trouble, that is not to say the plan isn't doable. But like Sunil said there is a thin line between bravery and stupidity and often the line is too thin and overlooked.

kolobar · Mar 5th, 2007, 05:41

You definitely are stubborn. More I am explainig I am not impressed, I dont care... more you are persistent with your self glorifications. You guys obviously desperatly need affirmation.
So as less stubborn I am quiting this debate.
Before I am finished with you I would like to point out an attitude which is highly dangerous and iresponsible. You seem to be proud of the fact that you did not get AMS. Guess what, I can assure you it has nothing to do with your fitness, intelect or stamina. It is a pure luck. But it seems this accidental fact is an inspiration for other people. Yogesh Sarkar did not get AMS so we can forget about doctors, medical sciences, sound advices. We will just follow Yogesh Sarkar example and we will be fine.
I spend a lot of time each year on high altitude. I figure out that I am acclimatizing relatively quick and easy. But when advising other people about acclimatization I follow very conservative rules. I have seen bad cases of AMS (also on Manali-Leh road) and I dont want to be responsible for another one.

I know jeep drivers from Manali and Leh who plight Manali-Leh road in a day few times a week, starting at 3 a.m., arriving in Leh at 7 p.m., I have seen public bus drivers who drive from Kullu to Tabo continuously in 20 hours (1 driver for the whole ride). And they dont do it for affirmation but for meagre payment. Therefore you have to figure out something more intelligent, skillful, sophisticated to impress me and I guess most of contributors to this forum.

Feb 28th, 2007, 09:07	#1
hitanshu Renegade Killer Bee Join Date: May 2006 Location: Delhi/Mumbai Posts: 209	Let's Get Leh'd June 07 Tentative itinerary: Date ETD ETA Place 1 3am 7pm delhi-Marhi/Gulaba/Kothi 2 6am 3pm Marhi - pang 3 8am 4pm Pang - leh 4 leh 5 6am 7pm Leh-nubra-leh 6 6am 8pm Leh-Pangong/Marsimek 7 5am 6pm Pangong-Chushul-Nyoma-Hanle 8 6am 5pm Handle Nyoma Tso Moriri 9 6am 4pm Tso moriri-Tso Kar-Debring -Sarchu-Darcha 10 5am 8pm Darcha-Koksar-Kaza 11 Stay at Kaza 12 5am 6pm Kaza-Tabo-Chitkul/Sangla 13 9am 7pm Sangla-Narkanda 14 8am 7pm Narkanda-delhi Stay at Kaza 12 5am 6pm Kaza-Tabo-Chitkul/Sangla 13 9am 7pm Sangla-Narkanda 14 8am 7pm Narkanda-delhi http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pyGEEmv2RaGrWxWX93jb4P g is the spreadsheet. Your kind comments please. AMS aside (which can hit anytime), rest my bigger koshun is that ifff I'm willing to ride out of Leh at 4am, cross Khardungla by 6am, and _touch_ Panamik/Hunder and come back by 8pm, then tell me the way/specific pitfalls/nullahs as well. I love night riding, and ain't afraid of doing it solo. Will potter back at 30 kph if situation demands, or take shelter if some blizzard hits. I just want to outline and plan the worst case scenarios and see how best I can attack it. If I stop for evening by 2-3pm, then I will go mad. I can't sit still in one place for that long ever Plus, its just a plan. If bike screws up (like last time) or some shit happens, then i'll army /truck hitch & bike load and come home that's the worst na? Tell me the worst that can happen/that I will encounter, and tell me how to endure it

Mar 3rd, 2007, 04:53	#14
Yogesh Sarkar Maha Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Delhi (India) Posts: 1,094	Kolobar stubborn, kind of, most of us bikers are. But the fact is plans are just that, a plan. The real stuff happens when a person saddles up for the ride and leaves the comfort of his home behind. Most of the time these plans change on the fly, destinations are dropped, riding plans and speed changed etc. Regarding doing Delhi - Manali - Leh in three days, well I did that last year, Delh - Manali - Sarchu - Leh. That was done without once pushing myself or my bike and guess what I didn't get AMS. But I agree, staying in Pang isn't a good idea. In fact it doesn't makes any sense since even if he is staying at Sarchu he would reach Leh by evening, at the max three hours late than if he was staying in Pang. Hitanshu all of the people replying here and at BCMT are doing so because they care, some time it is better to learn from others experiences. Also if I remember correctly you have Asthma, under the above circumstances you can get in trouble, that is not to say the plan isn't doable. But like Sunil said there is a thin line between bravery and stupidity and often the line is too thin and overlooked. __________________ My Travelogues \| My Blog \| Ladakh Travel Guide

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Feb 28th, 2007, 19:43	#2
kolobar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: beside a lake Posts: 155	It is not true that AMS can hit anytime. But it will most certainly hit you if you go from Delhi to 5000m in 2 days. That is definitely the worst that can/most probably will happen.

Mar 1st, 2007, 04:55	#6
kolobar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: beside a lake Posts: 155	On day two before you reach Pang you will also be at 5.060m Lachalang la. There is nothing - no liquid, garlic, ginseng, diamox or ignorance - that can replace adaptation of the body to altitude. It can only ease its side effects, but when we are talking AMS, side effects are not your main problem. You should also consider that between Baralacha la and Taglang la you are stuck at 4000+ altitude with no easy escape to lower altitude in case of emergency. To Sunilg: I could not care less about some bikers (self) mistifications. I am sure people have done even more stupid things than biking from Delhi to Leh in 3 days and get away with it. It is not some achievment to be proud of to rush into danger like an idiot and hope sheer luck will help you out. I just hope there is some dady - a high army officer in the background who can provide emergency helicopter rescue.

Mar 1st, 2007, 19:15	#8
Dr.Barai Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Lucknow Posts: 313	Does traveling means covering the distance between two places? Just reaching from one place to another in the least possible time depending on the mode of transportation at disposal? If it is so, then the sumo drivers of the leh-manali road are probably the greatest travelers of all!!!!!!

Mar 2nd, 2007, 04:21	#9
hitanshu Renegade Killer Bee Join Date: May 2006 Location: Delhi/Mumbai Posts: 209	a. Kolobar, your points are completely valid. However, having seen evidence to quite the contrary let's just say that I will tempt my luck. http://torquetravels.blogspot.com/ - Manali then Sarchu and Leh. All of three days. 2200kms to Heaven and back. -two days a side http://www.bcmtouring.com/forum/view...t=138&start=60 http://www.yogeshsarkar.com/trips/ladakh05/ladakh.htm My point is simple - i've seen enough guys do it. Almost every other google link tells me that the AMS possibility is high, etc etc. I'm here because I believe there are ways to be better prepared. Moreover, current route is highly optimistic, but is being reworked. Another thing I was hoping was route feedback with specific info on route conditions and pitfalls/nullahs/... to avoid! PS: Sunil is correct. Leaves aren't plentiful. PPS: Doc Barai, i remember you posting some distances from Karu (some green over the road signage you had posted). Could you repost it please?

Mar 2nd, 2007, 04:53	#10
hitanshu Renegade Killer Bee Join Date: May 2006 Location: Delhi/Mumbai Posts: 209	Revised tour pilaan ETD ETA Place Notes Mileage Total 3am 7pm delhi-Marhi/Gulaba/Kothi 580 580 6am 3pm Marhi - pang 280 860 8am 4pm Pang - leh 220 1080 leh (rest to preapre for next MAD days) 30 1110 6am 7pm Leh-Panamik 170 1280 5am 6pm Panamik-Deskit/Hunder-Leh 200 1480 6am 8pm Leh-Pangong-Leh 300 1780 7am 4pm Leh-Nyoma 170 1950 5am 6pm Nyoma-Hanle-Nyoma 160 2110 6am 5pm Nyoma Tso Moriri 180 2290 6am 4pm Tso moriri-Tso Kar-Debring -Sarchu-Darcha 280 2570 5am 8pm Darcha-Koksar-Losar Stop at Koksar if things get tough 170 2740 Losar- Kaza-Tabo (Rest) 105 2845 5am 6pm Tabo--Powari-Chitkul/Sangla 170 3015 5am 10pm Sangla-Delhi 610 3625 Comments on the route

Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:39	#11
Dr.Barai Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Lucknow Posts: 313	i guess repost is not allowed. but i can mail u the distance chart hitanshu. r u planning Marhi to Pang in 9 hours? well we have regular traffic congestion on rhotang pass and it generally clears only after 1pm.last june i was cought in a traffic jam and to my misfortune it was raining/snowing too. I consider myself lucky to escape frostbite but did lose sensation over few toes permanently.So plan carefully.

Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:46	#12
kmalik Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 459	Hey - I am no expert, but if AMS-risk was the driver for your modifications - you did not accomplish it. Apart from the issues riding through high passes - your biggest exposure comes from the overnight stay in Pang (much higher than recommended - way too quickly). The way to reduce it is by overnighting in Keylong (i.e. lower sleeping elevation). AMS often strikes at night... You'll perhaps not like that as it does not suite your time line. While there is no way to counter anecdotes and real-life experiences of those that have done it without difficulty, the AMS - when it happens - can be rather deadly. As they say - your mileage may vary. So, at the very least - look at something like: http://www.ismmed.org/np_altitude_tutorial.htm to educate yourself.

Mar 2nd, 2007, 18:23	#13
kolobar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: beside a lake Posts: 155	I dont think there is any sense to advise these guys. They are abusing this forum for showing off their "madness", "dareness", "stuborness" and a crap like that. It has nothing to do with sharing useful informations about travelling in India. They just want to make impression and draw attention. But I am afraid the only one who is impressed are themselves.

Mar 5th, 2007, 05:41	#15
kolobar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: beside a lake Posts: 155	You definitely are stubborn. More I am explainig I am not impressed, I dont care... more you are persistent with your self glorifications. You guys obviously desperatly need affirmation. So as less stubborn I am quiting this debate. Before I am finished with you I would like to point out an attitude which is highly dangerous and iresponsible. You seem to be proud of the fact that you did not get AMS. Guess what, I can assure you it has nothing to do with your fitness, intelect or stamina. It is a pure luck. But it seems this accidental fact is an inspiration for other people. Yogesh Sarkar did not get AMS so we can forget about doctors, medical sciences, sound advices. We will just follow Yogesh Sarkar example and we will be fine. I spend a lot of time each year on high altitude. I figure out that I am acclimatizing relatively quick and easy. But when advising other people about acclimatization I follow very conservative rules. I have seen bad cases of AMS (also on Manali-Leh road) and I dont want to be responsible for another one. I know jeep drivers from Manali and Leh who plight Manali-Leh road in a day few times a week, starting at 3 a.m., arriving in Leh at 7 p.m., I have seen public bus drivers who drive from Kullu to Tabo continuously in 20 hours (1 driver for the whole ride). And they dont do it for affirmation but for meagre payment. Therefore you have to figure out something more intelligent, skillful, sophisticated to impress me and I guess most of contributors to this forum.

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