The Trouble of Kashmir

the_choker

this is fairly long, but stick with it as it has useful stuff, concerns with the common Delhi touts trying to get you to go to Kashmir. In this case the experience was mostly overpriced and forced buying of products, but the place is amazing and there are ways of getting the best out of it and it would be great if these were commonly known. for me it was the place I had felt most restricted in my month trip.

If there was ever a time that I was susceptible to a scam or a bad decision, it was on the 20/10/5. I had just arrived at New Delhi Station by train from Jaisalmer, a short 20 hour ride. With the remnants of my recent severe bout of food poisoning, wasn't in the best state already.

Anyways, the plan was to get on the afternoon Shatabdi Express to Amritsar, with about 3 hours to spare.

Not much luck at the station, firstly as the reservations building appearred to be demolished and they were building another (maybe could have checked the other platforms but didn't occur to me at the time). After discovering a large number in the waiting list of Reservations, my final chance was to go to the tourist office where I might fit into the Tourist quota.

Get sent to "CENTRE TOUR & TRAVELS", N-9/1 Cannaught Pl, Middle circle.

Unfortunately no chance of my train.....however, a great option could be to go to Srinigar (capital of Kashmir), stay in a houseboat single deluxe rooms for 3 nights, including the flight there (no return ticket) for a price. All this plied with the promises of how safe it was(backup newspaper clippings), no troubles anymore, ease of travel to other places etc...

Anyways, combination of tiredness and sense of adventure (didn't know anyone who had been there before) got me in. Plus, really wanted to be out of Delhi that day.

after the cash taken, advice not long after that no flights available today, go tomorrow (alarm bells here), but they put me up in their "guest house" (actually their house) for the evening and flew the next day.

they place I was booked in was "DILSHAD GROUP OF HOUSE BOATS"on Nageen Lake.

On arrival and waiting around at the cooks boat for a good while and a walk, I am finally advised that there is no boat available for me that night, I could stay at their house.

This is the bad bit now. Isolated, purposely no chance to talk to any of the other guests, the owner takes advantage of this situation by selling you his tours plus his skills at organising the rest of your trip for you. My offer was this: 2 day trek, a boat tour of the lake, a visit to the Mughal gardens - all for the bargain price of $400US - My arse.

By this point in time I had been travelling for 2 weeks solo, so I had the confidence that I could certainly organise these things by myself, for A LOT cheaper.

The lies and threats started here. Points like: not allowed to leave the houseboat by self at any time as it is way too dangerous, no one else will organise treks, threats to leave me in the middle of town at night to fend for myself, the tourist office has been burnt down(this one appeared true, from the signage and location), effectively had me as a hostage.

end of the day, I wanted a trek and a chill out, I bought a trek for way too much.

Starting the next day, everything changed.

Got a room in a boat, shared room, but got time to share stories with the other travellers there, everyone appeared to be in the same boat. Also the stories changed, lots of soldiers around but it was safe to walk around, and the owner was certainly quick to point this out along with the opportunities to stay much longer for no extra cost, and especially HOW SAFE IT WAS.

Positive note, while the trek wasn't exactly as promised(definitely nowhere near the value), the scenery in Sonamarg is amazing.

Lies and Misconceptions (Delhi):
Lodging Details Deluxe - Actual shared standard one night
Can swim in the lake - not a chance anywhere near the boats
Can go today - try the next day
Phone call to other visitors - use this time to ask as many questions as possible, likely to get a good hint that everything is not ok
Travel from Srinigar - There is no train station, either you will need to leave by plane (between $100-$150US), organised jeep (10 hours), bus (12 hours)or your own way. Most Jeeps and Buses go to Jammu Tawi, a fair ride south.

Lies, Misconceptions and Sales techniques(Srinigar):
Availability of room - ha!!
Safety - felt safe to walk around, but see note at bottom
No war here - Everyday in the paper there were stories of the Indian army and clashes with the Kashmir rebels
Trek - In justifying the cost, you are told that you will be trekking to your camp, and hence a few horses are required - not always the case, generally will stay at the camp where the jeep drops you.
Abuse - you are accused of being untrustworthy, lying and cheating - a real case of the pot and kettle here!!!!
Women - Reports from some of the female "guests" at the time indicated some relatively poor, suggestive behaviour from the staff directed at them (this is other people stories here, and not my place to detail as it happened to others)
Sales traps - you can't lock you boat so the boat salesmen - shawls, silver etc all have access to you at any time - expensive prices also
Treks - There seemed to many other people doing treks, organised by other organisations

A final note, 2 days after I left by plane, we read in the paper that a bomb had gone off on the major road to Jammu from Srinigar, killing 10. While none of my friends had been on the road at the time, several had passed through within the 24 hours preceding. this was about 3 days before the Delhi bombings.

If you are considering going to Kashmir, make sure you are well aware of the political and violence situation before you go, but also be aware of how you plan to leave (good idea to book before you go) and who and where you staying with.

You can safely assume that I do not recommend the people mentioned above.....

th3_saint

Interesting post!

I was wondering about the Kashmir situation myself recently and was going to post asking for peoples experiences. You beat me to it!

Sounds very much like I expected, despite hopes otherwise. From another travellers reports it sounds like she had a similar experience.

I'm being presured by a 'friend' here in Delhi from Kashmir to go with him, find other travellers to come with me, all buddy buddy like. But there is a feeling that all is not well and I'm being wary because of this.

Would seriously love to see the place but not organised by someone else and not in the current socio-political climate!

Anyone else have experiences to tell?

Be interested to hear similar or opposing experiences... Surely not all bad!!

somnath

Hi Choker,
I am sure you are in India for the first time . Kashmir is not a regular tourist spot on earth and definitely is not for the first time travelers in India.

It is recommended not to stay in a houseboat directly. I’ll advice (I am recently back for Kashmir area) to check in a hotel first and then select a houseboat to get the rare experience . Doesn’t sound practical isn’t it? But ask anyone who had been to Kashmir will be agree with it. Choker, you didn’t visit Gulmarg or Pahelgam?

Best of luck for rest of the tour.

- Somnath

somnath

Though it was a different kind of tour but I cant say 'bad'. I'll go once again.

A trip to Heaven on Earth.

- Somnath

jyotirmoy

Somnath has given the right advise. I had been to Kashmir 3 years back & I was very lucky as it was a buyer's market then. We stayed at a hotel the first night in Srinagar & went house boat hunting the next day. Fixed up one & came back to hotel to check out.
We had a very nice family as a host in Nagin lake. The first day lot of Peddlers in Shikara came & probably by night fall message had been relayed to all that these people wont buy anything so from next day no more peddlers.

the_choker

Thanks all,

All good advice.

Would really love the place to become truly open for foreign tourists, both for costs for the traveller but for the economy.

Is truly beautiful.

th3_saint

Hi guys.

I've been talking to a few travellers around Delhi who have been up there... The short answer goes like this:

The people who went up independantly, booked own flights, found accommodation when there etc... Had an amazing time!

The people who organised (or were bullied into) an all inclusive tour from somewhere like Delhi... Had an awful time! Including being touted, harrassed, held prisoner... And other fun activities all tourists have on their 'To do before I die' list.

So independant travel seems to be the way to do it!

Will read your account another time Somnath. My hour is up and I need some scran!

AvidTrekker

My sister and family had visited Kashmir in 1989. For fifteen days. Just before the terrorism stopped everyone from going there.

Same scams were rampant. She being a seasoned traveller, did not cave in. They enjoyed the trip. But were very wary of Kashmiri people after that. The organized shikara stays used to be the biggest racket.

Seems it has started all over again. What was latent has now become patent.

Still, Kashmir is still worth going to. Its beautiful, just simply beautiful.

Just don't commit yourself monetarily to pre-pushed packages and treks.

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The Universe is an ellipsoid?... or a Spheroid?? If the sphere smiles... it becomes an ellipse. This IS Creation.

somnath

On the other hand I have received positive reaction from very satisfied travelers went to Kashmir with tour operators of Kolkata (I can tell you the names but afraid it may be against the policy of IM). So it is very tough to make any decision. There are couple of distinct advantages in case of organized trip especially in Kashmir. Anyway, it is a personal choice. But Kashmir is such a beautiful place, one thing is assured, you will be mesmerized and at the end of the tour you will forget all the complains (if any).
My pleasure.

Dr Funkenstein

If I lived in an area that had been subjected to 17 years of civil war, I'd be eager to wring every last rupee out of the visitors, too.

The advice about doing it independently above is sound. I booked my houseboat in Jammu and was very pleased with it - it was the same one as I'd seen in the agent's photo album and was in great condition.

I only booked one night at first so I could see how it was before I committed to anything and gladly booked it for 10 days. It was an extremely reasonable Rs. 400 a night including all meals.

To be honest, I would've gladly paid twice this amount if the family who owned it would've then just left me alone. The sales-pitch was totally relentless - I couldn't even sit out on the veranda and enjoy the sunset without one of the family trying to sell me a trek to Sonamarg / some pashmina shawls etc etc. They also had a really irritating habit of frightening off any shikhara-guys I chose to speak to as they wanted me to use their guy (and get some commission, I guess).

In the end I did a runner after 5 nights (despite having paid for 10) just to get a bit of peace ! Pretty funny now that I look back but a major pain in the arse at the time, believe me.

Still, it didn't wreck my trip to Kashmir - it's a truly incredible place that I'll definitely return to one day. Next time, I'll pick my houseboat when I get there and I'll pay on a day-to-day basis so I can always leave if things don't go to plan.

But like I say, these are people who are desperate for business and have had to resort to pretty desperate measures. They've now had the earthquake to contend with, too. Not good.

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Out There Somewhere : My Travel Blog.

Dr Funkenstein

That sums up how I felt about it exactly.

davyd

I crossed hurriedly Kashmir and Jammu on my way from Leh back to Delhi in the middle of october and think that both regions are very beautiful but difficult to roam around. First, a lot of checkpoints. Sometimes driver can slip through saying this is a foreign tourist who lonely sitting in jeep but sometimes it felt like in Second World War movies - get out of jeep, hands up, soldiers opening your bags by rifles and making personal checkout. Sometimes soldiers were just jumping on all seats in jeep to get a lift till their checkpoint. Soldiers were standing right from Kargil after every 100 metres and did not look well on me making fotos. Because there are 400,000 indian soldiers in Kashmir (according to indian press) almost everything except Dal lake considered military sensitive - soldiers and BSF jawans are virtually everywhere and checking checking checking. The life for Kashmere people is not easy but I do not want to say that there are no terrorists. Kashmir question is complicated matter and hardly worth considered here. I just hope that tourism will return to the Vale because Kashmir is really beautiful and its people are very friendly.

scrap2244

Seems this scam is alive and well. I'm in McLeod Ganj at the moment and the place is teeming with backpacker refugees from Kashmir! Same story everywhere - tourist office in Delhi, no trains (their excuse in my case was Diwali - which I was inclined to believe), only way to get out of Delhi. I went by bus (26 comfortable hours; at least for the old man who kept falling asleep on my shoulder) and I only paid for three nights, a one day trek and a city tour. This still set me back almost Rs.12000. Some poor suckers had been forced into a 2 or even a 4 week tour.
They're doing pretty well out of us - watch out for "Ali" - a smooth individual with an English accent and a nice car who'll soften you up with a trip to the cinema and a couple of beers in Delhi.
Spread the word!

anar

my experience was so totally different from most of the above. I went for ten days - organised the flight myself on deccan air (very reasonable if booked in advance), had a kashmiri friend pick me up at the airport, taken by taxi to a houseboat he had pre-booked on my behalf on dal lake. it was alright - a bit steep at rs1500 a night - the walls are wooden and paper-thin (i could hear every bit of conversation from the room next door and presumably, vice versa). spent a day just being paddled around dal lake (this was memorable, in hindsight) and another, visiting the mughal gardens (a must for garden lovers like me). left srinagar after two days for pahalgam by car - again, organised by kashmiri friend and his family (very decent, kind people). sure, the army checks at every other place made it slightly unnerving but my kashmiri friend was with me and that helped (maybe it was merely psychological support but it is what was needed). i took photos but nowhere around soldiers - that would have been foolhardy. stayed at brown palace hotel (basic but so genuinely friendly). went for walks, stunningly beautiful place. also 'discovered' a gem of a place - island resort - across the river from brown palace run by a very cultivated couple (spotlessly clean tent-style accommodation, inexpensive). on return to srinagar, made the mistake of staying at shahenshah palace on boulevard road (filthy, overpriced hotel), overlooking dal lake. but didn't know anywhere else with availability and it wasn't for long. taxi to airport, oganised by the hotel. back safe and sound, with some wonderful memories and photos of my time in a truly beautiful part of the country.

i think my visit would have been very different had i not had my local kashmiri friend and his family to rely on.

Shark

Choker maaaaate.....you've heard they saying in Oz "they saw you coming".....in this case "they sent for you". Some detailed research before believing anyone would have saved you a whole lot of hassle. Anyway you have had an Indian experience that you will be able to reflect on for many years to come. The moral is learn from it.