Renegade but (hopefully) reformed Indian (now PIO)!

deburn

Hi everyone,

I am so excited about my upcoming trip to India, well, Goa mainly, but hoping to do some side trips if time and money allow.

Sorry about the dramatic title, but this is a major trip for me, and the internet does make it easier to be frank!

So, I grew up in India, Bombay, mainly, and left India in my 20's and that was about 20 years ago. I've since been back many time, but all my trips were to Bombay and I didn't go anywhere else! At the time it seemed like I was 'forced' to visit only Bombay, because of family obligations, but looking back, it seems like so many wasted opportunities!

About 15 years ago, I bought an apartment or flat in Goa. It was supposed to be an investment and in many ways it was because in those days I wasn't very good at saving money - I'm a little bit better now - so I would have spent it anyway.

I've never ever spent even a single night in it; in fact, I've only visited it once, to 'take possession'. Over the years, I've wanted to sell my flat, but many issues, procrastination being one of them prevented me from doing so.

Now, after getting divorced and laid off in the last few years, I really need the money, so I've finally started reaching out to friends who might be able to help with the selling process (I live in the US). I was speaking with one of them about 2 or 3 weeks ago and he said to me: why don't you go down yourself and take care of it personally?

My immediate response was: I'm broke, substantially in debt, actually, how could it make financial sense for me to spend all that money on going down? But as I thought about I realized that apart from the air ticket, the cost of living is fairly low, certainly much less than daily living expenses in the US.

And thanks to being laid off and the economy, I certainly have the time! Though I haven't been to Goa for about 15 years, there was a time when my friends and I would go there regularly and I have so many great memories of those years. I know Goa has changed significantly since then, but I'm sure some aspects are still the same and I'm looking forward to finding out what's new and what's not!

So I was really excited about the prospect of this trip and the more I've read about India and Goa in particular, the more excited I've become!

skk

Welcome ! Your frankness will get you far in this forum methinks.

Re: selling property in Goa; dunno how the buying process was for you but the selling was worse for me,in Pune, a decade ago, before the full bubble :-) ; you encounter snakes, and robbers,charlatans and harlots and things that go bump in the night - it exposes things about people _within_ your family you wish you'd never found out. I agree with your friend - go and do it yourself, I'd add "WITH the help of a good lawyer" - especially since you have the time now.

re: US debts - First of all, debt, properly taken on and properly offered is a CIVIL matter; walking away from it is a serious decision but absolutely nothing to be ashamed about - the freakin' US entreprenurial system is based on the ability to walk away from debt and start again. Do make sure you understand about unsecured and secured debt, assets that can't be encumbered ( 401Ks, homesteading in FL) and assets that can be encumbered to satisfy secured debt etc. Absolutely ignore any 'advice' that the debt holders give you, like "well, can't you borrow against your 401K", or "we'll do a short sale if you write a promissory note" - not surprisingly they are interested in just getting their money back, not what your legal position is regarding the money owed.

Sadly MA, last I checked isn't a non-recourse mortgage state, so you can't do "jingle-mail" to meet any mortgage debt-so it seems, you'd better double-check on that - but interesting court cases are going through surrounding the fact that with the securitization of mortgages, documentation supporting who lent the money, who owns the note etc has been quite shoddy and courts notice this and do NOT give debt-owners leeway - "Prove it they say" check: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/bu...gret.html?_r=1 , with a critique of it at: http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/20...uptcy-and.html

I am no lawyer of course and luckily or whatever I'm not personally confronted with these issues - but I have enormous empathy for those who do.

Look forward to your posts.

-skk

namaste_cat

deburn - welcome to IM, and welcome back to India
Hope you have a great time in Goa with your friends. Cost of living is definitely more reasonable there than in Boston I'd think. With your housing paid for, that should help a lot. If I lose my job, I'd definitely consider it as well since I own a flat/apt in Goa too.

One of my cousin's kids is currently living in it, and paying me rent, which gives me walking around money when I visit India. I'm dreading selling that flat because buying it was enough of a nightmare and I was an Indian citizen at the time! Maybe I'll never sell it and just leave it to my kids (who will both have OCI status soon)

deburn

Hi skk, thanks for your reply. That's good advice about a lawyer. Any advice on how to go about finding a good one (apart from asking friends etc)?

I am one of the few people in the US who bought a place well within my means and my debt is not mortgage-related but more to do with asset division and taxes related to my divorce. I havent thought of walking away from it, and hopefully won't have to!

The buying process was painless, partly because I had people to help me out at the time and I bought directly from the builder, GKP Cconstructions in mapusa who were very good to deal with

deburn

skk and namaste_cat, thanks a lot.

skk, I wrote a fairly long response to your post from my phone, but it didn't go through - hate when that happens!

So my new, condensed response: getting a lawyer is a great idea - I hadn't thought of that - any suggestions on how to go about finding someone trustworthy (apart from asking friends etc?)

I am one of the few (it seems like!) in the US who bought sensibly, so my debts aren't mortgage but related to getting divorced and laid off over the last year or so.

namaste_cat, I'm now thinking I should be open towards going the rent option too, given all the difficulties there seem to be with selling, so any suggestions in that area would be appreciated as well.

The building does not have a swimming pool, but is in a great location, a couple of blocks away from the junction of the road leading to The Tourist Hotel (which I assume is still there?!) and the road to Baga, and quiet too.

skk

I aimed for the usual approach - get three quotes.

You have to be clear in your own mind what you want of course - no faffing about; but yeah people are pretty clear in India, IMO, with people who are pretty clear with them. I chose the lawyer I got from the last approach.

-skk

deburn

that's certainly an unusual approach, but definitely worth trying

That's an interesting view point. I've been to India several times but almost all those trips were very short and very specific so I didn't get much opportunity to get an in depth experience of how people have changed; and how they haven't.

That's one of the things I'm really looking forward to. That and the food of course! And reliving some very, very nice memories

skk

You'll have an interesting time - I can't tell from your name - being Hindu or NOT will matter IMO - IM me ( this isn't an appropriate forum for that discussion) - ( or with your permission I'll IM and then email you ) and we can go to somewhat depth about that - as much as needed and no more.

-skk

deburn

I'm Catholic - yes, please PM me

Nick-H

In India? Or in Goa?

About Goa, I know nothing, never been there, might never go, but doesn't it have a substantial christian population?

About forums... well, so many times, when people talk about Indian ways and Indian customs, they are making an assumption that it will mean "Hindu" to everybody. Like when people ask about being invited to an "Indian" wedding.

The city and state in which I live is certainly majority Hindu --- and yet one cannot turn many corners without tripping over a church, and, as you bounce back, you will knock right into a mosque. It is a hugely mixed society.

skk

done

-skk

rebeccam

Hi Deburn, from the Left Coast of the USA!

First, welcome! You've gone through quite a bit in recent yrs: divorce, job layoff, worries over debt. Aaaarrrggghhhh! So, congratulations on planning this wonderful trip which will put calming and fun salve on your crazy last few yrs' experiences, and will hopefully be the light at the end of the tunnel for you!!

I've no specific knowledge of Goa or selling in India but here are a couple "throw 'em out there" ideas. Forgive my presumption, as you may well have already considered these options.

You " bought directly from the builder, GKP Constructions in Mapusa who were very good to deal with." As you had a good experience with them--is there any way you can contact anyone you worked with at the time? Are they still in business, or did any of the agents at the time move on? Perhaps you can check your original sales document, to see who you worked with. Even if GKP is no longer there, perhaps some of the individuals who helped you still are, in other capacities, and you could look them up from here via Google, or once there in person.

What about contacting someone at your local Remax real estate office? There is a Remax India Real Estate network. Perhaps if you went through a Boston branch for a referral, there'd be a slight referral commission for the local (USA) person as well. That might give extra encouragement to them in helping you find a good sales person in Goa.

Good luck and may your new "reformed" self have a great and successful (in every way) trip!

deburn

Nick, one of the things I say about Goa, is it's hard to figure out which are more prolific: bars or churches! Maybe they're even, which seems appropriate

Thanks so much, rebeccam - I tend to be very hard on myself and I need to remember - and be reminded - what I've gone through and to give myself a break.

Anyway, I'm so so excited about this trip I feel like stopping strangers on the street to tell them about it! And it's getting very hard not to monopolize conversations with friends too I can only imagine what it's going to feel like once it starts getting cold over here.

Those are great ideas for selling the place (funny I got no responses to my thread where I specifically asked for advice on selling my flat, but I'm getting it here, so I guess it all evens out ).

I had thought of contacting GKP and your post is a good reminder for me to look them up online. I didn't know ReMax was in India. I'll give them a call - nothing like a little cash to motivate people :-)