Would you go for dual citizenship? Why?

crvlvr

From the US Sttae Department Website:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1753.html

While the oath is not law, by swearing to it, the US citizen is pledging his/her allegience to the US interests.

dzibead

You have to read more of the material you just quoted from the State Dept site; for example:

"The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship."

The situation I was referring to was nadreg's, where he apparently intends to become a naturalized U.S. citizen and will be required to swear the Oath of Allegiance. It was not a general discussion of the broad concepts of dual nationality or dual citizenship.

The sentence from the quote above that "U.S. law does not ... require a person to choose one citizenship or another" refers to the kind of situation where, for example, a person is already a U.S. citizen and acquires another citizenship by operation of another country's laws. A person in that situation does not have to affirmatively choose one citizenship or the other.

From India's point of view, nadreg's naturalization as a U.S. citizen may or may not cause him to lose Indian citizenship. That's what the language quoted above is referring to when it says,"or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth" - the birth country may continue to consider the individual a citizen of that country, unless it, like the U.S., has laws saying that if you intentionally seek naturalization elsewhere and renounce your allegiance to the birth country, you lose your citizenship there.

Also when the language quoted above says, "Also, a person who is automatically [emphasis added] granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship," that refers to a situation where, say, another country grants you citizenship if you do certain things even if you don't do those things with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship. For example, if the country of Lower Slobovia (made up, obviously) has a law that says every person who invests 10 million kroners in Lower Slobovia's jute industry will automatically be made a citizen, that wouldn't automatically divest a U.S. citizen who did that of his or her U.S. citizenship.

Another good example of this is a country that confers automatic citizenship on anyone who just happens to be born there, regardless of the parents' citizenship status. The child of U.S. citizen parents who happens to be born in a foreign country is automatically a U.S. citizen regardless of having been born abroad -- but may also automatically be a citizen of the other country, too, IF that's what the other country's laws provide! And vice versa! Many people who are in the U.S. illegally have kids who were born here - and under the U.S. Constitution, the kids are U.S. citizens merely by virtue of where they were born, regardless of their parents' nationality or the legality or illegality of their presence in the country. There's a move afoot in some circles to change this, so that at least one, or maybe both parents have to be at least legally in the U.S. - or maybe even be citizens already - in order for the kids to be U.S. citizens. I fear that there may be lots and lots of technically "stateless" kids here if such a Constitutional amendment passes.

In contrast, a person who deliberatly seeks the citizenship of another country that, like the U.S., requires one to swear allegiance to the new country, is considered to have become a citizen of that other country by choice, not automatically, and is therefore considered by the U.S. Govt to have relinquished his or her U.S. citizenship, and will not be considered to have dual citizenship or dual nationality.

I don't know what you mean when you say, "While the oath is not law, by swearing to it, the US citizen is pledging his/her allegience to the US interests." You seem to be implying that taking the Oath of Allegiance has no legal impact on one's citizenship status. But it is taking the Oath of Allegiance that is the final act the confers citizenship on a naturalized person. A person seeking naturalization has to go through the application process with the U.S. Govt and has to be "granted" naturalization by the U.S., but it is not that grant or approval that actually confers citizenship. It is the person's taking of the Oath that accomplishes that. As such, the Oath is considered what is referred to in the law as a "verbal act" - in other words, not merely a "statement," but the legal equivalent of an action -- just as the words forming a contract are not merely a statement, but are a "verbal act" also.

Wow, I REALLY have to stop doing this, cuz I have REAL legal work I need to be doing, for which I might actually get PAID!

crvlvr

dzibead... The point is the US does not require one to give up their citizenship from another country -- that was what my response related to. I have quoted your statement" contrary to what crvlvr..." in my response -- and my reponse specifically related to that, nothing else. I still stand by my statement -- US law does not make its citizens give up their citizenships from other countries. Here is another link: http://immigration.about.com/library...y/aa102599.htm

Regarding the oath, here is my analogy to help with the explanation.. Its like agreeing to abide by the posted signs when you get your driver's license. then you start driving and you exceed the speed limit. Are you breaking the law, Yes. Will your driver's license be revoked? No. Similarly the US govt doe no make you give up your US citizenship when you obtain another country's citizenship. India, on the other hand requires that you turn in your Indian passport if you become a citizen of another nation.

dzibead

Oh, now I see your distinction, and yes, you're right about Indian law. If you become a naturalized citizen of another country, that automatically terminates your Indian citizenship. That's under the provisions of Article 9 of the Indian Citizenship Act. There's an interesting Wikipedia article on this issue, by the way, but I don't have the URL and am too lazy to look it up.

But nadreg, it looks like as far as the Indian Govt is concern, you're out of luck in trying to have dual citizenship. Fortunately for you, when you become a U.S. citizen, it'll be a heck of a lot easier for you to get a visa to go back than it is for an Indian citizen to get a visa to come here! Or you can always make sure to get your PIO card after you become a U.S. citizen so you don't have the visa bother!

eater

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H I hope not, at least for the next year or so as (married to an Indian) I qualify for PIO, but not for OIC.

Nick-H, I think if your spouse is a citizen of India (Born in India, or parents born there)then you as spouse would qualify for OCI, No?

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biswassb

Do you want democrats back in the office, busy under the table, so that Al qaida can grow and Pakistan-Iran-N. Korea can make lots of nuclear bomb? Who knows, Bangladesh could be joining the nuclear club soon; they need the prestige of nuclear bomb too!!

Nick-H

No. Read carefuly the bit that says something like "...if they otherwise qualify".

I read it as I can't

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phobal

If I were eligble, my only concern would be mandatory military service if shit were to hit the fan.

capt_mahajan

methinks that if you take citizenship of a country, you should be prepared to fight for it.

indians have faced similar issues in singapore with compulsory military service.

my idle question to the indian diaspora has always been "if the us (or canada, or uk or whatever country an indian takes citizenship in) was at war with india, which side would you prefer fighting for?"

yet to get a convincing answer either way.

this rhetorical question may be farfetched, but is a basic one.

phobal

Sounds kinda far-fetched. Like a Palestinian getting Israeli citizenship.

crvlvr

what if you believe in non-violence?

capt_mahajan

then you can try the conscientious objector thing.

can tell you you wont get far in singapore with it, though.

phobal

Then you can draft dodge and claim refugee status in a third country...

phobal

and then when you claim refugee status, that gets shot down to the ground when politicians (except the green party) and the immigrant and refugee board say that refugee status is for people that actually deserve it. and then you take it to the supreme court thinking that the highest court of the land that you cowered to actually cares about you
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/276771

the end.

the opoponax

Just in case this whole issue isn't resolved yet, yes, you most certainly can continue to be the citizen of another country after becoming a naturalized US citizen (and can remain a US citizen after becoming a citizen of another country).

I know MANY people with dual citizenships. Some of whom have had both statuses from birth, some of whom were citizens of the US who later gained other citizenships, and some of whom were citizens of other countries who later became US citizens. It seems to work in any direction you choose.

A close friend of mine is in the process of establishing dual citizenship for his infant daughter (her mother/his wife is Dutch). Why would he go through with that if it was just a formality, or the Dutch passport would just be a souvenir?