Visas for entrepreneurs (company subscribers)

dusterio · Oct 22nd, 2009, 16:11

After spending 1 year in India, and going through many boring bureaucratic challenges, I clearly realized that there is a little "bug" in the Indian legislation as related to the foreigners:

From one side, any foreigner is now allowed to start a company in India. Moreover, company can be 100% owned by foreigners, and no approval from the RBI is required in many areas.

But from another side, there is no type of visa that fits such enterpreneurs. Many embassies/consulates cannot even advice you what type of visa you should apply for. Imagine that you need to enter the country to incorporate your company - since the company is not here yet, how are you going to get a visa? You cannot get an invitation letter from a non-existing enterprise. Of course, you can get a partner - a CA company, but you are not obliged to!

Then, let's say you did open a company, and you became both a subscriber and a managing director (even persons not residing in India can be directors, which is amazing). Sounds like you qualify both for business and employment visa - you are both a businessman and an employee. But your employment contract will be signed by you from both sides - I'm quite sure the embassy/consulate won't accept such paper.

For business visas, FRRO requires "undertaking letter" - how do you make one if you are your own boss?

So the funny thing is that now, as a company owner, I can employ other people and they will get long-term employment visas, but I cannot even make myself a good visa!

Are there any other enterpreneurs in this forum? Would like to hear some stories...

Nick-H · Oct 22nd, 2009, 16:21

I think this is a topic which affects many --- it will be interesting to know of the experiences of others.

Mira4x4 has posted quite a lot of stuff about his experience of starting a company here; I don't know if he covered this aspect.

Haylo · Oct 23rd, 2009, 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusterio

For business visas, FRRO requires "undertaking letter" - how do you make one if you are your own boss?

Photographers who are travelling to India purely for tourism must supply a letter of undertaking which states that they will not be engaging in their profession while in India.

Self employed photographers must write this letter of undertaking themselves, on their own company headed paper. I don't know, but it would not surprise me if this is handled in the same way.

dusterio · Oct 23rd, 2009, 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haylo

Photographers who are travelling to India purely for tourism must supply a letter of undertaking which states that they will not be engaging in their profession while in India.

Self employed photographers must write this letter of undertaking themselves, on their own company headed paper. I don't know, but it would not surprise me if this is handled in the same way.

That's a different thing I guess. The undertaking letter I'm talking about is the standard form given by FRRO's. It says something like: "I promise to send that guy back at my expenses if something goes wrong, la la la". Letter must be signed/stamped either by Indian company or Indian individual.

Today I was at the Mumbai FRRO, and there was a French girl who works for the French consulate in Mumbai. She had a letter of undertaking from the consulate - I saw the consul's signature and stamp myself, by the FRRO officer (well, a lady at the reception) rejected it - she said "it must be signed by Indian person", she was even surprized that there are no Indians working at the consulate!

Nick-H · Oct 23rd, 2009, 17:13

Oh, yes... I remember that! Not just for employment only --- My wife had to undertake to send me back to the UK if I don't behave.

(It's some sort of double whammy that she would have to use my money to do it, I suppose

)

sibasis · Oct 24th, 2009, 04:02

I am an Indian guy, who is working in Montreal. My boss (who is a Canadian) and I, want to open up a company in India. I initially thought the process to get the Indian Business visa for my boss would be easy. But after visiting the Visa office in Montreal today, I realized the same obstacles as to how to get an invitation letter, when the company has not yet been registered!! Amazing policy they have.

Now my question to you guys, I will get the invitation letter somehow. But my boss is planning to take his wife along and three school going kids, who were supposed to go to an International school there. But now the Visa office here says, the wife and kids cannot travel and they will need separate visas and the kids can go for student visa. But til we visit the school, give the test, etc etc, how can they get the admission letter to show for student visa?

Any helpful hints as to how my boss can bring his wife and kids with him? Because if a person is going there to start a company, shouldn't he be allowed to bring his family with him? Please do help, if any one of you has ANY idea about this. Please do reply.

kmalik · Oct 24th, 2009, 05:14

I do not know all of it, but the children can get provisional student visa for 6 months to find the school. See link.

sibasis · Oct 24th, 2009, 05:40

Thanks for the info. But I have something to add here. I just spoke the Indian Visa office helpline numbers in Canada, and they said, in the case which I mentioned, what normally they do is, the husband will get the business visa, and the wife and kids can apply for Entry visas, which are also valid for 6 months- 5 years. I am yet to fill up the visas and submit, and do not know how it will work out, but this is what they told from the official visa helpline number here. So, best bet is it should work. Will keep you all posted on whatever I get.

Tozzi · Oct 24th, 2009, 07:58

I have the same problem.
My CA said the correct thing to do would be an Employment Visa, but since the Goan authorities have no clue what that is, I should apply for Business.

Well, right now I am denied both (see other thread) because I formed the company while still on Tourist visa. Go figure.

I probably have had enough now. I most likely will transfer (gift) all my company shares to my indian partners.
I've tried hard, but have got no energy left.
Luckily, I did not invest too much so far. It hurts, but can still be filed as "expensive lessons".

GoanCanuck · Oct 24th, 2009, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tozzi

I have the same problem.
My CA said the correct thing to do would be an Employment Visa, but since the Goan authorities have no clue what that is, I should apply for Business.

Not really. There are many people from European countries in Goa on employment visas. If you are setting up a tourism related business then you do not need any Indian partners.

dusterio · Oct 24th, 2009, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tozzi

I probably have had enough now. I most likely will transfer (gift) all my company shares to my indian partners.
I've tried hard, but have got no energy left.
Luckily, I did not invest too much so far. It hurts, but can still be filed as "expensive lessons".

I start feeling the same

But got so many "lock-in" rental contracts - cannot just leave India now. I cannot stay comfortably, and I cannot leave - what a great situation

a_f_d · Oct 29th, 2009, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tozzi

I have the same problem.
...Well, right now I am denied both (see other thread) because I formed the company while still on Tourist visa. Go figure...

a reply on the 'other thread', from someone who's done it, states that it is OK to form a company on a tourist visas (no other sort being available!) but you must get a B visa before you trade.
Unless you can convince HCI/MHA that only you are qualified to be the MD of your company (i.e. there are no suitably qualified Indians) then you won't get an E visa. If you get a B visa you are not supposed to 'work' - and you have to leave every 180 days.

AndyD 8-)#

Some clarifications have been published by the MHA - it has some helpful points, I hope they have been passed on to the HCI/CGI

Tozzi · Oct 29th, 2009, 20:14

Thanks for the link, Andy!

I meanwhile got my passport back, stamped "Visa applied for", along with a letter, saying my application has been referred to the "appropriate Indian authorities" and that they will get back to me.

dusterio · Oct 29th, 2009, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_f_d

Unless you can convince HCI/MHA that only you are qualified to be the MD of your company (i.e. there are no suitably qualified Indians) then you won't get an E visa. If you get a B visa you are not supposed to 'work' - and you have to leave every 180 days.

AndyD 8-)#

Some clarifications have been published by the MHA - it has some helpful points, I hope they have been passed on to the HCI/CGI

Thanks for the link, they finally clarified the situation!! So it seems that shareholders/directors of Indian companies should go for business visas.

Btw, I don't think that you have to convince them that there are no suitable Indians for MD position - MD is a highly-qualified job.

And regarding the leaving every 180 days - that's not true. I got a B visa and I can stay any amount of time before my visa expires. If I want to stay more than 180 days - I just have to get a residential permit at the local FRRO.

a_f_d · Oct 29th, 2009, 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusterio

....And regarding the leaving every 180 days - that's not true. I got a B visa and I can stay any amount of time before my visa expires. If I want to stay more than 180 days - I just have to get a residential permit at the local FRRO.

Congratulations - all the other people (Brits)I have met with B visas had the 180 day stamp.

AndyD 8-)#

Oct 22nd, 2009, 16:11	#1
dusterio Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Mumbai, India Posts: 32	Visas for entrepreneurs (company subscribers) After spending 1 year in India, and going through many boring bureaucratic challenges, I clearly realized that there is a little "bug" in the Indian legislation as related to the foreigners: From one side, any foreigner is now allowed to start a company in India. Moreover, company can be 100% owned by foreigners, and no approval from the RBI is required in many areas. But from another side, there is no type of visa that fits such enterpreneurs. Many embassies/consulates cannot even advice you what type of visa you should apply for. Imagine that you need to enter the country to incorporate your company - since the company is not here yet, how are you going to get a visa? You cannot get an invitation letter from a non-existing enterprise. Of course, you can get a partner - a CA company, but you are not obliged to! Then, let's say you did open a company, and you became both a subscriber and a managing director (even persons not residing in India can be directors, which is amazing). Sounds like you qualify both for business and employment visa - you are both a businessman and an employee. But your employment contract will be signed by you from both sides - I'm quite sure the embassy/consulate won't accept such paper. For business visas, FRRO requires "undertaking letter" - how do you make one if you are your own boss? So the funny thing is that now, as a company owner, I can employ other people and they will get long-term employment visas, but I cannot even make myself a good visa! Are there any other enterpreneurs in this forum? Would like to hear some stories...

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Oct 22nd, 2009, 16:21	#2
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,180	I think this is a topic which affects many --- it will be interesting to know of the experiences of others. Mira4x4 has posted quite a lot of stuff about his experience of starting a company here; I don't know if he covered this aspect.

Oct 23rd, 2009, 17:13	#5
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,180	Oh, yes... I remember that! Not just for employment only --- My wife had to undertake to send me back to the UK if I don't behave. (It's some sort of double whammy that she would have to use my money to do it, I suppose )

Oct 24th, 2009, 04:02	#6
sibasis Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Montreal Posts: 2	I am an Indian guy, who is working in Montreal. My boss (who is a Canadian) and I, want to open up a company in India. I initially thought the process to get the Indian Business visa for my boss would be easy. But after visiting the Visa office in Montreal today, I realized the same obstacles as to how to get an invitation letter, when the company has not yet been registered!! Amazing policy they have. Now my question to you guys, I will get the invitation letter somehow. But my boss is planning to take his wife along and three school going kids, who were supposed to go to an International school there. But now the Visa office here says, the wife and kids cannot travel and they will need separate visas and the kids can go for student visa. But til we visit the school, give the test, etc etc, how can they get the admission letter to show for student visa? Any helpful hints as to how my boss can bring his wife and kids with him? Because if a person is going there to start a company, shouldn't he be allowed to bring his family with him? Please do help, if any one of you has ANY idea about this. Please do reply.

Oct 24th, 2009, 05:14	#7
kmalik Maha Guru Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 672	I do not know all of it, but the children can get provisional student visa for 6 months to find the school. See link.

Oct 24th, 2009, 05:40	#8
sibasis Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Montreal Posts: 2	Thanks for the info. But I have something to add here. I just spoke the Indian Visa office helpline numbers in Canada, and they said, in the case which I mentioned, what normally they do is, the husband will get the business visa, and the wife and kids can apply for Entry visas, which are also valid for 6 months- 5 years. I am yet to fill up the visas and submit, and do not know how it will work out, but this is what they told from the official visa helpline number here. So, best bet is it should work. Will keep you all posted on whatever I get.

Oct 24th, 2009, 07:58	#9
Tozzi Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 9	I have the same problem. My CA said the correct thing to do would be an Employment Visa, but since the Goan authorities have no clue what that is, I should apply for Business. Well, right now I am denied both (see other thread) because I formed the company while still on Tourist visa. Go figure. I probably have had enough now. I most likely will transfer (gift) all my company shares to my indian partners. I've tried hard, but have got no energy left. Luckily, I did not invest too much so far. It hurts, but can still be filed as "expensive lessons".

Oct 29th, 2009, 20:14	#13
Tozzi Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 9	Thanks for the link, Andy! I meanwhile got my passport back, stamped "Visa applied for", along with a letter, saying my application has been referred to the "appropriate Indian authorities" and that they will get back to me.