Visa Surgeries

Albertstan · Oct 10th, 2006, 13:43

My partner and I have booked for Goa in a months time. It is to be our first visit to India and obviously we require a visa. As we were travelling to Spain last week we could not send our passports off to the embassy as we required them for travel to Spain. The ideal solution was one of the “surgeries” that are held every so often at various venues around the country. As we live in Yorkshire, Bradford was the most suited and they had a surgery last Saturday. We arrived at 9.00am with our documents, pictures, cash (which we were told would not be accepted as we needed postal orders, which I had to purchase while my partner remained queuing). The queue stretched all around the building. Two hours later a woman came around and posted a notice to say that only 400 visas would be issued that day. As we didn’t know how many had already been issued or how many were in front of us we remained in the queue. At 12.30pm we had reached the inside of the building and could see the “administration desk”. At this point the “powers that be” decided that 350 visas had been issued and that was enough work for the day! The queue still stretched around the block. No-one was informed officially that “visas were not us” by the officials and chaos ensued.

We had to come away after queuing for 3 ½ hours without our visas and a very bad taste of Indian officialdom in our mouths. If it hadn’t of been for the fact that we have already purchased our flight tickets I would have told them to stuff it and booked somewhere more hospitable. As it is now I have sent off the passports to the commission in London in the hope that they are returned in time for us to fly.

What is it with in Indian Authorities? Don’t they want to encourage tourism? The fiasco on Saturday was definitely Third World. It didn’t have to be like that. A little organisation and thought could have prevented a lot of wasted time and effort. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that this sort of behaviour will deter tourism and I would have thought that India could do with as much foreign tourism as possible.
The other farce about the “surgery” system is that it costs you another £10 per application (in separate postal orders) for the privilege!!

greenchutney · Oct 10th, 2006, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albertstan

The fiasco on Saturday was definitely Third World. It didn’t have to be like that.

er~ can you explain the meaning of the word third world?...curious minds here would like to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albertstan

I would have thought that India could do with as much foreign tourism as possible.

and why would you think like that? as much as foreign tourism as possible?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albertstan

If it hadn’t of been for the fact that we have already purchased our flight tickets I would have told them to stuff it and booked somewhere more hospitable.

oh dear! might i suggest Bangkok or Ibiza instead...

welcome to IM

icetea · Oct 10th, 2006, 14:29

Albertstan, sorry to hear about that experience. But if you can't cope with that kind of behavior then I doubt that you will cope with Indian traffic, for example, or really enjoy India at all. India is NOT an organized country, that's why people love it it in the first place.

Nick-H · Oct 10th, 2006, 16:28

The only thing I can say is... just try getting into UK as a non-UK passport holder. The day I queued up for over an hour with my Indian wife while people were interogated, shouted at, staff disapeared from the desks for long intervals, I wondered why any business person/investor/tourist would want to visit our country.

The Indian High Commision in London is very efficient and, in my experience, polite. People have posted good experiences about the 'surgeries'.

That said, and I sympathise with you for your experience. Crap service is crap service wherever it is found.

Dealing with Indian beaurocracy in UK, however, is no more than a greatly diluted version of dealing with it here in India. Hopefuly, as a tourist, you will never have to do that!

As to "third world", well, it is an expression that has gone out of fashion. Maybe what you should have said is The fiasco on Saturday was definitely Developing Nation. Means the same thing, just it is more politically correct

kullukid · Oct 10th, 2006, 16:34

Wow, sounds like you've had a taste of the "Third world" before you've even got there, i'm jealous!

Seriously though Alberstan, i live in Leeds & went to a visa surgery in Bradford earlier this year & had exactly the opposite experience: Here's what i wrote about it on "Another India Forum"

well, i'm back complete with valid visa. Got to the surgery at 9.30am all completed by 11.15am waited in a hall with about 80 Indians & believe it or not about 20 Angrezi (English), i didn't think that many English new about it. It was a bit like sitting in an Indian bank with everything been done in triplicate & 5 people doing the job of 1 except it takes them 5 times longer, you know the one!!!
But the best bit of all was THE SMELL! you know what i'm talking about.
It was that smell of India, but without the really bad bits (one day someone will bottle it & make a fortune out of suckers like me!)
The reason for the smell was because the room next door contained the temple & there was lots of incense being wafted about & the local Indian wives had spent the night before making refreshments to raise funds for charity. They were serving 1 big very fresh samosa with a portion of pakora & raita for £1 & a delicious chana masala, so i got 2 portions of each to bring home for lunch, i said to the woman kitne £s & couldn't believe it when she replied "AS YOU LIKE" anyway it's lunchtime now so i'm off to stuff my face & i think i'll definitely use the visa surgeries from now on! KK
Here's a link to the full story: http://www.theindiatree.com/forum2/i...showtopic=1330
Whereabouts in Yorks are you Alberstan? KK

Albertstan · Oct 10th, 2006, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenchutney

er~ can you explain the meaning of the word third world?...curious minds here would like to know.

Well curious minds would already know!
The subjective terms First World, Second World, and Third World, can be used to divide the nations of Earth into three broad categories. Third World is a term first coined in 1952 by French demographer Alfred Sauvy to distinguish nations that aligned themselves with neither the West nor with the Soviet Bloc during the Cold War.
What is your point?

and why would you think like that? as much as foreign tourism as possible?

Because foreign tourism brings in much needed Foreign currency, jobs, construction etc. which is essential for a "developing nation"

oh dear! might i suggest Bangkok or Ibiza instead...

You can suggest what you like - it's a free country

welcome to IM

Thank you greenchutney

Albertstan · Oct 10th, 2006, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

The only thing I can say is... just try getting into UK as a non-UK passport holder. The day I queued up for over an hour with my Indian wife while people were interogated, shouted at, staff disapeared from the desks for long intervals, I wondered why any business person/investor/tourist would want to visit our country.

That doesn't make it acceptable Nick.

The Indian High Commision in London is very efficient and, in my experience, polite. People have posted good experiences about the 'surgeries'.

That said, and I sympathise with you for your experience. Crap service is crap service wherever it is found.

I say as I find it Nick. It was crap service and I suggest that all it would take to improve the situation was to go through the queue with the raffle tickets and issue them to the first 350 (or 400 depending how how they feel) applicants. This way it would avoid people queueing for over 3 hours without a cat in hells chance of obtaining a visa.

Dealing with Indian beaurocracy in UK, however, is no more than a greatly diluted version of dealing with it here in India. Hopefuly, as a tourist, you will never have to do that!

Hopefully

As to "third world", well, it is an expression that has gone out of fashion. Maybe what you should have said is The fiasco on Saturday was definitely Developing Nation. Means the same thing, just it is more politically correct

Point taken sorry

Nick-H · Oct 10th, 2006, 17:24

No, it is not acceptible... especially as thet £30 is just a tax on tourism.

I never knew that third world was a political division rather than an economic one.

Bigzero · Oct 10th, 2006, 17:55

I find the surgery term slightly weird - as if those applying for visas will come home with some body part missing.. or...

OP, sorry to hear about your experience. Hope that wont dampen your spirit to travel. Also hope it is a one-off incident rather than the regular routine.

Helen · Oct 11th, 2006, 14:28

Hi Albertstan

Don't worry too much about sending your visa application off by post. I was in the same position as you and was travelling at the time when, in an ideal world, I would have been sending in my visa application. (And as I am on a teeny weeny rock in the Channel, Visa Surgeries are not an option!) I posted the application on Monday 25th September by special delivery, enclosing a stamped, addressed special delivery envelope for the return, and everything came back safely on 6th October, so two weeks and everything is sorted. I always worry when sending passports and stuff in the post, especially to embassies of famously bureaucratic countries, but everything went very smoothly.

anar · Oct 12th, 2006, 00:31

shame that you had to go through the unnecessary aggravation, albertstan. having been brought up in india, i just take it (the bureaucratic muddle found in any government-run 'enterprise', from post-offices to banks to land-registration offices) as part of the process - grit your teeth and hope for the best. here's hoping you and your partner have gone through the worst, and that your time in india will be a hassle-free one!

crvlvr · Oct 12th, 2006, 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albertstan

[
What is it with in Indian Authorities? Don’t they want to encourage tourism?

as it is the case with govt employees all over the world, Indain govt employees are lazy too.

As Nick has pointed out, if this has ticked you off, traveling in India will too -- in a much greater way. Be prepared.

Whats with the font?

Merchant · Oct 12th, 2006, 06:22

Those surgery things are just to save you a trip to London. Plus, there are plenty of South Asian people who need to meet face to face with consular officials in order to get their visas (they are Pakistani, Kashmiri, etc.). Tourism really isn't the point of this system. For that, you can just post your passport to London.

Oddly enough, Indian officialdom is trying to make it easier for people to visit to India by extending their services to the countryside. Obviously, it's a popular initiative.

adhikariindia · Nov 1st, 2006, 18:01

Hi Albertstein
I Am From India..i Understand Your Problem And I Will Speak To The Corect Department Here In India.. Indian Officials Are Corrupted Enough To Eat Anybodies Mind..be It Foreigners , Or Be It It's Own Nationals.. Specially The Embassy Personnel Are Really Bad. They Harass Public Purposefully..we Regret On Behalf Of Them..
Samridh India

cyberhippie · Nov 1st, 2006, 18:21

A simple explanation would be that they were simply overwhelmed by the scale of the people who turned up wanting visas.

Though there is no excuse for keeping people waiting around for nothing!!
I bit of information to the punters goes a long way to calming people down a little. That's not really the Indian way though!!

Oct 10th, 2006, 13:43	#1
Albertstan Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 9	Visa Surgeries My partner and I have booked for Goa in a months time. It is to be our first visit to India and obviously we require a visa. As we were travelling to Spain last week we could not send our passports off to the embassy as we required them for travel to Spain. The ideal solution was one of the “surgeries” that are held every so often at various venues around the country. As we live in Yorkshire, Bradford was the most suited and they had a surgery last Saturday. We arrived at 9.00am with our documents, pictures, cash (which we were told would not be accepted as we needed postal orders, which I had to purchase while my partner remained queuing). The queue stretched all around the building. Two hours later a woman came around and posted a notice to say that only 400 visas would be issued that day. As we didn’t know how many had already been issued or how many were in front of us we remained in the queue. At 12.30pm we had reached the inside of the building and could see the “administration desk”. At this point the “powers that be” decided that 350 visas had been issued and that was enough work for the day! The queue still stretched around the block. No-one was informed officially that “visas were not us” by the officials and chaos ensued. We had to come away after queuing for 3 ½ hours without our visas and a very bad taste of Indian officialdom in our mouths. If it hadn’t of been for the fact that we have already purchased our flight tickets I would have told them to stuff it and booked somewhere more hospitable. As it is now I have sent off the passports to the commission in London in the hope that they are returned in time for us to fly. What is it with in Indian Authorities? Don’t they want to encourage tourism? The fiasco on Saturday was definitely Third World. It didn’t have to be like that. A little organisation and thought could have prevented a lot of wasted time and effort. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that this sort of behaviour will deter tourism and I would have thought that India could do with as much foreign tourism as possible. The other farce about the “surgery” system is that it costs you another £10 per application (in separate postal orders) for the privilege!!

Oct 10th, 2006, 16:28	#4
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,701	The only thing I can say is... just try getting into UK as a non-UK passport holder. The day I queued up for over an hour with my Indian wife while people were interogated, shouted at, staff disapeared from the desks for long intervals, I wondered why any business person/investor/tourist would want to visit our country. The Indian High Commision in London is very efficient and, in my experience, polite. People have posted good experiences about the 'surgeries'. That said, and I sympathise with you for your experience. Crap service is crap service wherever it is found. Dealing with Indian beaurocracy in UK, however, is no more than a greatly diluted version of dealing with it here in India. Hopefuly, as a tourist, you will never have to do that! As to "third world", well, it is an expression that has gone out of fashion. Maybe what you should have said is The fiasco on Saturday was definitely Developing Nation. Means the same thing, just it is more politically correct __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Oct 10th, 2006, 17:55	#9
Bigzero back to my old ways Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,464	I find the surgery term slightly weird - as if those applying for visas will come home with some body part missing.. or... OP, sorry to hear about your experience. Hope that wont dampen your spirit to travel. Also hope it is a one-off incident rather than the regular routine. __________________ miles to go.... Bigzero's Photo Gallery

Oct 11th, 2006, 14:28	#10
Helen Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands Posts: 7	Visa by Post Hi Albertstan Don't worry too much about sending your visa application off by post. I was in the same position as you and was travelling at the time when, in an ideal world, I would have been sending in my visa application. (And as I am on a teeny weeny rock in the Channel, Visa Surgeries are not an option!) I posted the application on Monday 25th September by special delivery, enclosing a stamped, addressed special delivery envelope for the return, and everything came back safely on 6th October, so two weeks and everything is sorted. I always worry when sending passports and stuff in the post, especially to embassies of famously bureaucratic countries, but everything went very smoothly.

Nov 1st, 2006, 18:01	#14
adhikariindia Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: kolkata ,, india Posts: 3	i feel the pain... Hi Albertstein I Am From India..i Understand Your Problem And I Will Speak To The Corect Department Here In India.. Indian Officials Are Corrupted Enough To Eat Anybodies Mind..be It Foreigners , Or Be It It's Own Nationals.. Specially The Embassy Personnel Are Really Bad. They Harass Public Purposefully..we Regret On Behalf Of Them.. Samridh India

Oct 10th, 2006, 14:29	#3
icetea 'sort of hate India' club member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chennai, via Romania Posts: 917	Albertstan, sorry to hear about that experience. But if you can't cope with that kind of behavior then I doubt that you will cope with Indian traffic, for example, or really enjoy India at all. India is NOT an organized country, that's why people love it it in the first place.

Oct 10th, 2006, 16:34	#5
kullukid Maha Guru Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: u.k. Posts: 997	Wow, sounds like you've had a taste of the "Third world" before you've even got there, i'm jealous! Seriously though Alberstan, i live in Leeds & went to a visa surgery in Bradford earlier this year & had exactly the opposite experience: Here's what i wrote about it on "Another India Forum" well, i'm back complete with valid visa. Got to the surgery at 9.30am all completed by 11.15am waited in a hall with about 80 Indians & believe it or not about 20 Angrezi (English), i didn't think that many English new about it. It was a bit like sitting in an Indian bank with everything been done in triplicate & 5 people doing the job of 1 except it takes them 5 times longer, you know the one!!! But the best bit of all was THE SMELL! you know what i'm talking about. It was that smell of India, but without the really bad bits (one day someone will bottle it & make a fortune out of suckers like me!) The reason for the smell was because the room next door contained the temple & there was lots of incense being wafted about & the local Indian wives had spent the night before making refreshments to raise funds for charity. They were serving 1 big very fresh samosa with a portion of pakora & raita for £1 & a delicious chana masala, so i got 2 portions of each to bring home for lunch, i said to the woman kitne £s & couldn't believe it when she replied "AS YOU LIKE" anyway it's lunchtime now so i'm off to stuff my face & i think i'll definitely use the visa surgeries from now on! KK Here's a link to the full story: http://www.theindiatree.com/forum2/i...showtopic=1330 Whereabouts in Yorks are you Alberstan? KK

Oct 10th, 2006, 17:24	#8
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,701	No, it is not acceptible... especially as thet £30 is just a tax on tourism. I never knew that third world was a political division rather than an economic one.

Oct 12th, 2006, 00:31	#11
anar Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: India Posts: 486	shame that you had to go through the unnecessary aggravation, albertstan. having been brought up in india, i just take it (the bureaucratic muddle found in any government-run 'enterprise', from post-offices to banks to land-registration offices) as part of the process - grit your teeth and hope for the best. here's hoping you and your partner have gone through the worst, and that your time in india will be a hassle-free one!

Oct 12th, 2006, 06:22	#13
Merchant Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York Posts: 2,096	Those surgery things are just to save you a trip to London. Plus, there are plenty of South Asian people who need to meet face to face with consular officials in order to get their visas (they are Pakistani, Kashmiri, etc.). Tourism really isn't the point of this system. For that, you can just post your passport to London. Oddly enough, Indian officialdom is trying to make it easier for people to visit to India by extending their services to the countryside. Obviously, it's a popular initiative.

Nov 1st, 2006, 18:21	#15
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,012	A simple explanation would be that they were simply overwhelmed by the scale of the people who turned up wanting visas. Though there is no excuse for keeping people waiting around for nothing!! I bit of information to the punters goes a long way to calming people down a little. That's not really the Indian way though!!

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