Visa not given ... what now ?

AnnieGurton

Hi everyone.
Ten days ago, I applied by post for a Business Visa .... I gave all the required documentation, invitation letter from 2 Indian companies (only 1 is required) plus two letters from UK companies asking me to work for them. (This is to do with rug and carpet buying in Agra / Murzapur area). All paperwork sent, form completed and postal order for £168.

Last week the passport was returned, but no visa. And no explanation.

I emailed the VFS helpline and got a standard reply along the lines of 'we just act for the HCI'.

Does anyone know
a) whether there is an appeals procedure
b) whether its worth pursuing
c) whether I can or should apply for a tourist visa now
d) about having to declare that I have applied and not been granted a visa (does this count as a 'refusal'? - they did not say as much)

I have had a business visa in the past, and cannot see why this one was not issued.

Is there any agency which will act on my behalf and represent me in dealing with the HCI or VFS ?

Any helpful suggestions could me emailed direct to me at annie@cix.co.uk, or in here.

Many thanks in advance.
AnnieG

Haylo

How very annoying for you, do you have no idea whatsoever what could have triggered this refusal?

VFS are right in saying they act for the HCI, their role is limited to the very basic checking of documents, receiving and logging in of applications and passports and taking payment, all on behalf of the HCI.

VFS don't have any role whatsoever in making visa decisions, and the HCI do not have to tell VFS or even yourself why a certain decision was made.

a) There is no appeals procedure, decisions are final, and all you can do is make another application. If you contact the HCI they may tell you why your application was refused, but it's unlikely.
b) That is anyone's guess, without knowing why it was refused, it's hard to say what chance you have of being successful with another application.
c) You can apply for a tourist visa, but it's certainly going to look suspicious!
d) Yes, this is a refusal, and will have to be declared on future applications.

I don't know of any agents who could offer this service, basically the setup is that the HCI no longer speak to applicants or their agents, they only work through VFS.

You may be lucky and find an agent who has a personal contact in the HCI who is prepared to tell you why you were refused, and influence a second decision, but that is less than likely. If you do contact a visa agent, make sure they are very clear about exactly what service they are providing you with.

That is not the way that this site works, questions are asked and answered in public. In that way, not only do they form a searchable archive for other people in the same position, but it gives members the opportunity to challenge any poor advice!

__________________
The world is mud-luscious and puddle-wonderful - E.E. Cummings, poet (1894-1962)

Nick-H

Here's a wild, wild guess.

They used Google, and found this and this


Sensitive points with the HCI might be:

--- "living in" Goa on a regular basis

--- Connection to media industry in any form.

This is all fantasy on my part. If it is true, though, connection to the Media Annie might be hard to shake off.



By the way... how is cix these days? I left some time back when moving to India meant that it lost relevance for me, and I certainly couldn;t justify paid membership.

Haylo

Well spotted, it's an unusual name, that's for sure...

If those links ARE relating to AnnieGurton the IndiaMike member, that explains the refusal, and a refusal on those grounds is likely to happen again.

If those links ARE NOT relating to AnnieGurton the IndiaMike member, she needs to resubmit her application with a letter explaining that, and referring the visa officer to her photographs which would of course not match the Annie Gurton of Penzance photographed on that website.

AnnieGurton

Thanks for that, guys. Yes, you are right, the annie gurton they would have found if they'd googled me would have taken them to my web site which says that I live in Goa half the year. (I do the rug business too, thats bone fide, but am based in Goa while I do that)
That may explain it. And is very worrying about my ability to get even a tourist visa in future. We have a house there, and a whole life.
What to do ?
The second hit on Google, though, about me being a journalist and connected with the media, is a very old link and I am nothing to do with that now.

I assume that they will have a record of the refusal, so, as you say, it must be mentioned on subsequent visa applications.

Anyone know whether people who have been refused one type of visa can go on and get a plain tourist visa ?

This is such a bummer.

AnnieGurton

You seem very well informed: can you tell me what the attitude is to someone in my position now, that is, of having had a visa refused.
If I go on a tourist visa, I will stay in Goa and not go to the North and do the rug business, although it is very annoying.

But will they give me a tourist visa if I have been denyed a business visa ?

I really appreciate your reply and advice, Annie

Nick-H

I stress again, that it was a wild guess on my part.

I had no doubt that it was you; the location and the e-mail matched. At first, I thought the media site might belong to a different AG, but I hadn't had a look around the other site.

Would they check like this? I have no idea.

<cross-posted>

Haylo is more up-to-date on visas from UK; I haven't been there since 2005, and everything has changed in that time.

AnnieGurton

Hi Nick, I have no idea why they would check on Google for me. it didn't occur to me that they would, that's for sure.

But the bottom line is pretty scary: the idea of not even being able to get back into India as a tourist, even.

I only use cix email, BTW. And that works fine. I use FB these days, not cix conferencing.

But nice to see you again (I used to use India Mike a lot a few years ago)

Annie

Haylo

We're in the fortunate position of having recently had an IndiaMike member "asmithee" who worked at VFS, which is why we have so much insider knowledge.

There is a lot of useful information on the UK Visa Thread, I won't suggest you read all of the thousands of posts, just take a look around posts #1818 to #1826, where asmithee discussed a visa refusal.

Nick-H

I thought the name rang a bell

nycank

Every kid in the slums of India knows Google Nothing scary in the land which is the BPO & Call Center to the world. Did you not see Slum-dug Millionaire ?

You have had previous visas I am sure, since you have been to India and have done a few mileage runs, visa runs in the past. Without knowing the full history and the docket that Indian Authorities have, it is difficult to speculate.

__________________
bade bhaisaheb is outsourced

Nick-H

Yes, of course... the question is whether an Indian High Commission clerk/officer would routinely use it in checking visa applications.

karuna

I'm afraid Annie that I can't help with this at all. I just wanted to send my commiserations and say that I feel bad for you. I get fluttery every time I put in a visa app, and I'm just a tourist. The idea of being denied entry....well. I can't explain how terrible I would feel.

If it were me I would be tempted to write to HCI, politely, with explanations (doubt it's much use asking for explanations from them, but you could try it, gently!). This might be best done as part of a fresh application, as Haylo suggests, though. An out of the blue letter may well go unanswered, or be redirected to VFS. Hell, a fresh application may just go the same way. But I think I'd be trying it in your circumstances.

On the other hand, perhaps a tourist visa application first. If that fails, beg (politely)!

Haylo

Maybe not routinely for tourist visa applications, but the bona fides of business applicants can be checked in various ways, and I know as a fact that visa officers in one High Commission do use a google search as one of their tools.

The very first hit on a google search of "Annie Gurton" brings up the paragraph "Annie Gurton - Psychological Therapist in Penzance, Cornwall and Goa, India."

To a visa officer, that could easily look like a fraudulent business visa application was being made for trips to buy carpets in Agra, to cover the applicant's illegal therapy work in Goa. I'm not saying that is AnnieGurton's situation, but that is how it looks.

Annie, if you reapply, I suggest you include a covering letter persuading them somehow that despite what your website says you do not carry out paid work as a therapist in Goa, and that you don't have any links to the media. It might be a good idea to take down or change your website prior to your next application.

Good luck!

EDITED TO ADD: Sorry this is all rather bad news, I empathise totally with you. As of yesterday, my partner is posted in Tehran; as a Brit my chances of getting an Iranian visa to even visit him are negligible right now.

vegan

Without knowing your case history, my wild guess is that HCI thinks (based on some evidence) that you either violated the terms of your previous visas (especially the most recent one) or you misstated the facts and reasons for your intended visit on your rejected visa application. I think you might have guessed the reason.

I doubt they regularly google business visa applicants. Do you have enemies or competitors who might have complained to HCI?