PIO v OCI: subject to civil/criminal law

PIO108

I am a person of Indian origin considering the PIO card and the OCI. Question #30 the OCI frequently asked questions (http://www.mha.nic.in/oci/faqs.pdf) states:

"Would the Indian civil/criminal laws be applicable to persons registered as OCI?
Yes, for the period OCI is living in India."

Is this true for PIO card holders as well--i.e., are they subject to civil/criminal laws while living in India?

It's not that I'm contemplating breaking any Indian laws. It's rather that NRI friends have mine have warned me against being subject to Indian law, for they fear corrupt or false legal action as a potential attack against a legitimate business.

Other NRI friends have said that, if people want to get at you through the legal system, they can do it whether or not you are subject to Indian law.

I don't mean to offend or appear paranoid, but does anyone have any facts about this? I can't find anything on the MHA websites.

kmalik

I too remain interested in learning whether acquiring the OCI status leads to surrender of any legal rights. That said, it would seem that any foreigner (OCI, PIO or otherwise) is subject to Indian civil and criminal laws for the period they are in India. So, am not clear if the statement you quoted sheds any particular light on this matter.

capt_mahajan

kmalik is right.

I guess this argument will even hold true for frivolous lawsuits.

shere

You are in theory treated as an Indian and as such you will not get a consular visit if you ever get in trouble.

However there is nothing stopping you from renouncing your OCI status.

Consular visits do very little anyway. Look at all the foreigners serving time in Indian prisons. If you are guilty you will do the time regardless of whether you hold overseas citizenship or some form of Indian citizenship.

akt

Indeed. However, a foreign citizenship may bring help from the concerned embassy. How likely and how useful will depend on the country. There is a lot of "realpolitik" in such things.

For example, if a country like US considers you to be its citizen, and chooses to get involved, they can certainly make a difference. Mauritius on the other hand, I am less sure.

kmalik

It is the point shere makes that is of key interest: Does one forfeit the right to consular access in India upon acquiring the OCI status? I have seen this point expressed elsewhere, but nothing definitive on it.

shere: Do you have any pointers to mechanisms for confirming or refuting this point?

Brigit

i know locals in our area, police included are more likely to take a minuet to think if they know there going to have to deal with the embassy of a powerful country, although they will alsosee more possibility of a payoff.

Nick-H

This seems to me to be Silly Question of the Year.

Everyone is subject to the law of the country they happen to be in, unless they are there with diplomatic immunity.

For what it's worth, my humble interpretation of PIO is that it is just a form of visa, and not in any way a change in one's citizenship.

PIO or not... I don't think that your country will come to your aid in any civil action taken against you.

If you wish to be safe from the kind of actions that your friends have frightened you about, then I suggest staying well away from any business where you are likely to meet such people --- or staying well away from India.

However, before you come to that conclusion, I suggest you consider the possibility that some of the most negative ideas about India come from ---NRI's!

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Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

capt_mahajan

True. Usually because many are in a time warp, and are out of touch.
Unless somebody is spending enough time in India to experience firsthand fast moving changes, legitimacy to comment is, IMHO, sometimes suspect.

crvlvr

Indian laws apply to EVERY ONE while they are in India. (Only diplomats get a break. Whether you have a PIO or OCI does not even matter. They are a number of foreigners in India jails too.

akt

Isn't that a little harsh? Just the kind of personal attack we are all supposed to avoid? However...

All three points are right on target. Your country may not bother unless you are in some kind of serious official trouble. Depends on the country, depends on the trouble.

I fail to see any room for useful generalization here. Most criticism of Indian situations comes from within India, not NRI's. For example, when farmers were committing suicide, thanks to "fast moving changes"---it received much more thorough coverage locally.

There are time warps everywhere, among NRI's and within India. Among NRI's I find them more in old immigrant places like Trinidad and Fiji, even East Africa, and much less among new immigrants in the US/Canada. The latter as a group are not only aware but have been driving some of the change, good and bad.

capt_mahajan

Thats because you fail to read the comment properly, and see words like 'many' etc, which are not generalisations.

crvlvr

the OCI is not Indian citizen ship. The individual continues to remain a citizen of the country he holds passport to. Moreover, India does not even give the holder voting rights. Now, why would the OCI lose any access to the consulate?

BTW, if you break laws while you are in India, the consulate cannot do much anyways.

Merchant

Indian people in Trinidad, Fiji, and East Africa (as well as other "old immigrant places") are PIOs not NRIs--and they don't have much to do with India itself and don't concern themselves with India's issues or problems. They have their own local concerns.

You're right that recently arrived NRIs in North America and Europe have been driving change, economically and socially.

FWIW, all the various cards and distinctions that try to identify Indians living outside of India (NRI, PIO, OCI) stem in part from the fact that India does not offer dual citizenships. The BJP government in the mid-1990s was keen to cultivate business-class diaspora Indians as investors. These half-way schemes try to make it easier for Indian people outside of India to bypass some of the visa and immigration hassles and allow for local investment of private (not corporate) money.

The OCI card is just one more step to remove red tape (an Indian solution: apply more bureaucracy to cut through the bureaucracy). From the US embassy in New Delhi:

Nick-H

---MHA.

Be nice if they could make their mind up, wouldn't it!!!!

I suspect we could find many such contradictions if I, for one, wasn't just off to bed...

If it comes to the crunch, it is going to be interpreted by another government in which ever way suits them at the time, don't you think? But your quote sounds more sensible to me.

BTW.... an NRI (at least according to the FEMA definition, doubtless there is more than one, like PIO definitions) is a citizen of India living elsewhere; not somebody who used to be indian and now has citizenship of another country.

Confused? You will be...