PIO card query

matthewtoor

Hi - can anyone help me with this query?

I'm currently staying in Dharamsala, on a tourist visa, and want to apply for a PIO card.

My grandfather was born and lived in Ludhiana, where my dad was also born in 1936. In 1939, my grandfather moved with my dad and uncle to the UK, where they stayed until around 1948 - then moved back to Punjab. My dad and uncle are unsure about the exact dates, but think they attended the Lawrence School near Shimla between 1949 and 1951. My dad then went back to England with my grandfather, where he has lived since. My uncle stayed on longer - till the late 1950s I think.

I have no documentary proof of my Grandfather's citizenship - thanks to time and family feuds. My dad had an Indian passport, but has lost it. I have, however, obtained a document from the land registry in Ludhiana, written in 1990, which seems to show that my grandfather registered some land in his own name in 1982. The document also has a handwritten family tree, which shows my grandfather at the top, and his five children, including my dad and uncle below.

The only documents I have from my dad are: 1) an affadavit, from 1960, when my dad became a teacher in the UK, confirming his birthplace in Punjab and his parents' names, and stating that he could not produce a birth certificate because his birth was not registered; 2) a British Nationality Act 1948 Confirmation of Registration As a Citizen of the UK and Colonies - this was issued in 1971, when my dad applied for a British passport, and confirms his and my grandfather's place of birth in Punjab.

I've been staying in India since March last year, on tourist visas. I went to Delhi in January and talked to someone at the Office for Home Affairs (Jaisalmer Hs) about applying for a PIO card. He told me that the documents I had were insufficient, and that I needed to get hold of records from the Lawrence School.
This same man took photocopies of the documents I had, said he'd look into the matter for me and told me to call back in a week or so. He gave his name Ashim Khurana. On calling back, it transpired that Ashim Khurana is actually the head of the whole department, and that he certainly never talked to me. I've been given a number for a Mr Bhachara at Jaisalmer house, but this phone never seems to get answered...

So it's all become pretty frustrating. I've spoken to the Lawrence School asking for help, and they're checking their records - although it seems unlikely they'll have anything going back that far...

I'm also now confused as to whether I should be applying for a PIO or OCI card...

Does anyone have any advice on how I should proceed?

Thanks

Matthew Singh Toor

encotel

PIO Card has no value, but OCI card is worth applying. Process is simple, but you get different answers depending on who you ask. If are able provide your father's or mother's British Passport, which shows the birth-place Ludhiana, then you need only do new affidavit. That is all you need, unless you come across officer, who really wants to give you hard time.

Officers posted to foreign consulates are usually understanding to such hardship circumstances. Try Consulate in London.

Good luck.

Nick-H

I don't see much value in that statement. PIO card is very valuable.

It is true that, if one is entitled to it, OCI is better value.

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Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

encotel

Ok, if you say it does have value, then please outline what you percieve value?

Nick-H

1. 15 years validity. No visa worries for 15 years.

2. Period of stay in India not limited (although must register).

3. Can work in India

4. Can study in India

5. Economic and property ownership rights on a par with NRI.

That is one big heap value. If it's not good enough for you, you don't need to have one --- and if you are entitled to OCI, then yes, that is an even better deal.

encotel

In that sense, yes, PIO card is better for people not qualified for OCI.

What I am saying is that for most who qualify for PIO, also qualify for OCI, and they should apply for that. If certain documents are missing or not available, then use Affidavit. It has been accepted in many cases.

Good luck.

Nick-H

The important exception is that marriage does not entitle one to OCI --- and there are many of us here in that boat.

But if entitled to OCI: go for it!

Oh! and yes, good luck and Welcome to Indiamike to Mathew, and a welcome to you too, encotel.

Dilliwala

Matthew,

Frankly I think you might have an easier time of it in UK. I'm not sure whether you can apply here on a tourist visa even, technically applying in India is for those who have a basis for residence here. You don't, even if you have managed 1 year of stay. Nevertheless, they might still take your application and then give you the run-around. Another member had a similar tale to tell last year, only in her case there was even less documentary proof.

If you're intending to go home anytime soon (seems you're not), then try there is what I wud suggest.

matthewtoor

Hi - thanks for all the feedback...

Things are looking a bit better now. I've got hold of a land registry certificate from my grandfather's village, which shows his and my great-grandfather's places and dates of birth, as well as a family tree which includes my father... Have also got hold of my father's school leaving certificate from near Shimla, plus a ship passenger list showing my grandfather and father travelling together from London to Bombay in 1949...

Thanks, Encotel, for the tip about using my dad's UK passport - I hadn't realised this would be accepted...

RE: PIO vs OCI cards, apart from allowing you to vote, what are the benefits of OCI?

Regards to all

Matt

matthewtoor

Oh, and I've decided to apply for the PIO card in London, when my new 6-month visa expires in November... Reckon I'll stand a better chance there. The babus at the Home Affairs Office in Delhi were unbelievably rude and obstructive when I was there in March...

Dilliwala

Whoa! OCI lets you VOTE??!! Not at all!
All it is is a visa for life, apart from the other benefits. You won't have to renew every 15 years.
Since you're entitled you might be better off with one.

Nick-H

Seconded. The other main advantage of OCI is that you don't have to register as a resident foreigner.

matthewtoor

Ah, yet more misinformation... Thought the voting thing was a bit too odd to be true...

Not sure if I'd qualify for OCI - from what I understand, either my father or grandfather would have had to be resident in India post-1950, which they weren't... Or is this more misinformation from the Home Affairs Office...?

kpnuts

Unless you have decided to stay in India for good I would not bother with OCI, I am a PIO and qualify for OCI but I would not apply for it because I am not sure if OCI is regarded as dual citizenship and if any one know more on this please let me know.
Since I am not sure and having read this i am happy with a PIO for now.

Nick-H

try here (PDF) for the lowdown. Can't comment just now as my browser seems to have decided not to open PDFs!