New Indian government regulations on PIO and OCI

Bombay_Bill · Oct 18th, 2009, 01:32

From a couple of weeks ago (nobody is actually saying when) the Indian government issued a regulation that now requires all applicants for PIO and OCI cards to have formally terminated their Indian nationality and to have surrendered their passports. This process costs £90, (payment by the usual postal order only, no cheques, no credit cards)

It seems that a number of people have had their applications sent back because of this new regulation, which had been published between their sending off the forms and the High Commission actually getting around to opening the letters.

People should be aware that you can now NOT get a PIO or OCI card without formally rejecting their Indian nationality.

namaste_cat · Oct 18th, 2009, 02:20

Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

There are probably enough Indians who are not interested in PIO/OCI. Even less incentive now for them to deal w/ Indian consulates. They're just going to let their passports expire and not bother paying £90 .

Makes more sense to waive it for those applying for PIO/OCI because with that in any case you get back the old canceled passport and the revocation of Indian citzenship becomes formal.

Nattusbs · Oct 18th, 2009, 06:15

It is just another way for the GOI to rake in some revenue. They are all scam artists.

Cheers

Nattusbs

nycank · Oct 18th, 2009, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by namaste_cat

Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

There are probably enough Indians who are not interested in PIO/OCI. Even less incentive now for them to deal w/ Indian consulates. They're just going to let their passports expire and not bother paying £90 .

Makes more sense to waive it for those applying for PIO/OCI because with that in any case you get back the old canceled passport and the revocation of Indian citzenship becomes formal.

It is basically to discourage desis, who apply for an OCI the next business day after they receive their naturalization papers/passports

I dunno what purpose it serves. Maybe I'll know some more inside scoop from a clueful soul.

Bombay_Bill · Oct 18th, 2009, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by namaste_cat

Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

Makes more sense to waive it for those applying for PIO/OCI because with that in any case you get back the old canceled passport and the revocation of Indian citzenship becomes formal.

Nope.

Now if you apply for a PIO card without a cancelled passport and the appropriate certificate you get the application refused and they insist on a formal revocation of nationality.

Of course the PIO application forms don't yet reflect this...

namaste_cat · Oct 18th, 2009, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycank

It is basically to discourage desis, who apply for an OCI the next business day after they receive their naturalization papers/passports

Uh, that would be me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycank

I dunno what purpose it serves. Maybe I'll know some more inside scoop from a clueful soul.

More like an added cost

I've run into people at the consulate here who already complain about how expensive it is to get OCI, and this is new added cost is not a trivial amount.

Yes, do post because I don't see the purpose either other than to aggravate potential PIO/OCI applicants, and make absolutely sure others don't turn in their Indian passports.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bombay_Bill

Now if you apply for a PIO card without a cancelled passport and the appropriate certificate you get the application refused and they insist on a formal revocation of nationality.

Which of course can't be done without a fee whereas earlier it was just part of the process...nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bombay_Bill

Of course the PIO application forms don't yet reflect this..

Of course not. Par for the course. Love the fact that they're actually sending back previous applications. I'm glad I already have my OCI and canceled Indian passport.

Nattusbs · Oct 18th, 2009, 22:42

Good thread.

THis is my situation. I have US (and Canadian) citizenship with appropriate passport (the US one is tied to the PIO). I moved to India last year to work as Prof at IIT-KGP.

Due to the uncertainty of long long it would take to sell our Calif home, I did not apply for conversion of PIO to OCI in the US thinking I could do it easily in India.

Given the subject of this thread, what are my choices? I do not have any concrete plans of going back to the US or Canada - unless I get an offer that I can't refuse.

The question is why bother with OCI? Matter of convenience since one would not need the foreign registration to be done every 6 months (actually I do not need to worry about that since the Midnapore IB officer has already given a certificate that mine is valid till the validity of my present US passport which is 2016. This seems good to me since I was asked for this at CCU airport emigration during my recent trip to South Korea last month).

It looks like I should just do the online part A and so forth here in India.

Cheers

Nattusbs

namaste_cat · Oct 18th, 2009, 23:11

Nattusbs, in your situation given you plan to stay in India, I'd do OCI in India and be done with it. I don't trust the Indian govt to not change any rules regarding PIOs and employment, property, etc. Course they could just as easily do it w/ OCI so we can only hope OCI trumps PIO in some matters but we can't count on it..

P.S. in my earlier msg I was being facetious about the sending back of applications w/o canceled passports. It really stinks they don't have clear instructions. I was just at the DC site, and nowhere does it say anything about what Bombay_Bill has posted. Feel bad for new applicants.

RPG · Oct 18th, 2009, 23:28

I would say that the new requirement is reasonable. When I got US citizenship I never informed the Indian consulate, except by applying for a 10-year visa immediately. I was quite amazed that they gave me a visa since on their records I was an Indian citizen, but I suppose the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Later they gave me OCI as well. But if you need a visa or OCI/PIO, you are clearly not an Indian citizen, and you should be required to formalize that.

sakamath · Oct 21st, 2009, 00:57

While I am nowhere near a legal junkie, section (9) of the Citizenship Act provides for "Automatic Termination" of citizenship where a person voluntarily acquires citizenship of another country. "Renunciation" (or declaration) is covered by section (8) where an individual has to renounce his/her citizenship.

So if a person has taken citizenship of another country, (s)he already ceases to be an Indian citizen. In that case, how can a person renounce something one doesn't have?

I do have to make a trip to collect my OCI documents in the next couple of days. I'll get it confirmed with VFS if there is indeed such a process introduced (where one has to renounce citizenship).

namaste_cat · Oct 21st, 2009, 02:04

sakamath - makes sense what you say about automatic renouncement.

I don't have a problem at all w/ the Indian govt requiring cancellation of old passport, but if it's going to take people $150 or whatever it costs to make it "official", or OCI/PIO cost + additional $150 will be interesting to see how this goes over with desi log/Indian people.

I can see why they'd want to discourage Indians travelling on their old (but not official renounced) passports. How many times have we had that query on IM alone? Seems like at least for PIO/OCI, they can do it as part of the deal without this additional fee, but Buffalo_Bill indicated that was not the case.

Yes, do check about the new rules, inquiring minds want to know

sakamath · Oct 21st, 2009, 02:32

In Toronto (atleast), if a person-not born in Canada-seeks to apply for even a Toursit Visa, they have to submit their "previous" passport (IE Indian passport). Upon return of the Canadian passport, the counsel officials cancel the Indian passport with the stamp that goes something like "...voluntarily acquired Canadian citizenship" and is returned back. So is the Indian Consulate in Canada doing things for free where it is charging £90 in UK for the same service? Interesting.

Namaste-cat-ji, I'll definitely post what I learn from the visa office.

sakamath · Oct 22nd, 2009, 04:21

Just got my OCI from VFS, Toronto. I inquired about the new procedure and was told that, in their office, they just put a "cancelled" stamp on the Indian passport while processing the OCI application. That's it.

I guess it takes time for the winds to blow from England to Canada. I am lucky I got my OCI before additional hurdles are introduced.

namaste_cat · Oct 22nd, 2009, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakamath

Just got my OCI from VFS, Toronto. I inquired about the new procedure and was told that, in their office, they just put a "cancelled" stamp on the Indian passport while processing the OCI application. That's it.

Good to know. Yes, that's how mine was too (in the U.S) with the front cover edges clipped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakamath

I guess it takes time for the winds to blow from England to Canada. I am lucky I got my OCI before additional hurdles are introduced.

Hope they don't make their way to the U.S. because I know some people who wouldn't be too keen on paying an additional fee to have what has so far just been part of the process. I too am glad I have mine over and done with.

Congrats on your OCI, sakamath.

darkside_of_d_sun · Oct 23rd, 2009, 02:22

The GOI can simply raise the OCI/PIO fees by another 100 GBP, why bother so much!!!

Oct 18th, 2009, 01:32	#1
Bombay_Bill In Bombay Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Scarborough and Bombay Posts: 75	New Indian government regulations on PIO and OCI From a couple of weeks ago (nobody is actually saying when) the Indian government issued a regulation that now requires all applicants for PIO and OCI cards to have formally terminated their Indian nationality and to have surrendered their passports. This process costs £90, (payment by the usual postal order only, no cheques, no credit cards) It seems that a number of people have had their applications sent back because of this new regulation, which had been published between their sending off the forms and the High Commission actually getting around to opening the letters. People should be aware that you can now NOT get a PIO or OCI card without formally rejecting their Indian nationality. __________________ -- I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.

Oct 21st, 2009, 00:57	#10
sakamath reMember Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 53	While I am nowhere near a legal junkie, section (9) of the Citizenship Act provides for "Automatic Termination" of citizenship where a person voluntarily acquires citizenship of another country. "Renunciation" (or declaration) is covered by section (8) where an individual has to renounce his/her citizenship. So if a person has taken citizenship of another country, (s)he already ceases to be an Indian citizen. In that case, how can a person renounce something one doesn't have? I do have to make a trip to collect my OCI documents in the next couple of days. I'll get it confirmed with VFS if there is indeed such a process introduced (where one has to renounce citizenship). __________________ _/\|\|\_

Oct 23rd, 2009, 02:22	#15
darkside_of_d_sun Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 196	The GOI can simply raise the OCI/PIO fees by another 100 GBP, why bother so much!!! __________________ "A lot of people can't stand touring but to me it's like breathing. I do it because I'm driven to do it. " Bob Dylan My Photos <-- Updated http://archeriostichaos.blogspot.com

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Oct 18th, 2009, 02:20	#2
namaste_cat Kashmiri-Punjabi Sherni Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Amreeka Posts: 940	Very interesting. Thanks for the info. There are probably enough Indians who are not interested in PIO/OCI. Even less incentive now for them to deal w/ Indian consulates. They're just going to let their passports expire and not bother paying £90 . Makes more sense to waive it for those applying for PIO/OCI because with that in any case you get back the old canceled passport and the revocation of Indian citzenship becomes formal.

Oct 18th, 2009, 06:15	#3
Nattusbs Maha Guru Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: IIT-Kharagpur Posts: 656	It is just another way for the GOI to rake in some revenue. They are all scam artists. Cheers Nattusbs

Oct 18th, 2009, 22:42	#7
Nattusbs Maha Guru Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: IIT-Kharagpur Posts: 656	Good thread. THis is my situation. I have US (and Canadian) citizenship with appropriate passport (the US one is tied to the PIO). I moved to India last year to work as Prof at IIT-KGP. Due to the uncertainty of long long it would take to sell our Calif home, I did not apply for conversion of PIO to OCI in the US thinking I could do it easily in India. Given the subject of this thread, what are my choices? I do not have any concrete plans of going back to the US or Canada - unless I get an offer that I can't refuse. The question is why bother with OCI? Matter of convenience since one would not need the foreign registration to be done every 6 months (actually I do not need to worry about that since the Midnapore IB officer has already given a certificate that mine is valid till the validity of my present US passport which is 2016. This seems good to me since I was asked for this at CCU airport emigration during my recent trip to South Korea last month). It looks like I should just do the online part A and so forth here in India. Cheers Nattusbs

Oct 18th, 2009, 23:11	#8
namaste_cat Kashmiri-Punjabi Sherni Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Amreeka Posts: 940	Nattusbs, in your situation given you plan to stay in India, I'd do OCI in India and be done with it. I don't trust the Indian govt to not change any rules regarding PIOs and employment, property, etc. Course they could just as easily do it w/ OCI so we can only hope OCI trumps PIO in some matters but we can't count on it.. P.S. in my earlier msg I was being facetious about the sending back of applications w/o canceled passports. It really stinks they don't have clear instructions. I was just at the DC site, and nowhere does it say anything about what Bombay_Bill has posted. Feel bad for new applicants.

Oct 18th, 2009, 23:28	#9
RPG Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Timbuktu Posts: 382	I would say that the new requirement is reasonable. When I got US citizenship I never informed the Indian consulate, except by applying for a 10-year visa immediately. I was quite amazed that they gave me a visa since on their records I was an Indian citizen, but I suppose the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Later they gave me OCI as well. But if you need a visa or OCI/PIO, you are clearly not an Indian citizen, and you should be required to formalize that.

Oct 21st, 2009, 02:04	#11
namaste_cat Kashmiri-Punjabi Sherni Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Amreeka Posts: 940	sakamath - makes sense what you say about automatic renouncement. I don't have a problem at all w/ the Indian govt requiring cancellation of old passport, but if it's going to take people $150 or whatever it costs to make it "official", or OCI/PIO cost + additional $150 will be interesting to see how this goes over with desi log/Indian people. I can see why they'd want to discourage Indians travelling on their old (but not official renounced) passports. How many times have we had that query on IM alone? Seems like at least for PIO/OCI, they can do it as part of the deal without this additional fee, but Buffalo_Bill indicated that was not the case. Yes, do check about the new rules, inquiring minds want to know

Oct 21st, 2009, 02:32	#12
sakamath reMember Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 53	In Toronto (atleast), if a person-not born in Canada-seeks to apply for even a Toursit Visa, they have to submit their "previous" passport (IE Indian passport). Upon return of the Canadian passport, the counsel officials cancel the Indian passport with the stamp that goes something like "...voluntarily acquired Canadian citizenship" and is returned back. So is the Indian Consulate in Canada doing things for free where it is charging £90 in UK for the same service? Interesting. Namaste-cat-ji, I'll definitely post what I learn from the visa office.

Oct 22nd, 2009, 04:21	#13
sakamath reMember Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 53	Just got my OCI from VFS, Toronto. I inquired about the new procedure and was told that, in their office, they just put a "cancelled" stamp on the Indian passport while processing the OCI application. That's it. I guess it takes time for the winds to blow from England to Canada. I am lucky I got my OCI before additional hurdles are introduced.