Indian-Chinese Marriage

aeropriest

Hey there

many many congratulations to you zahidmaqbool and your bride...I am the lucky boy friend of Nicole and we are in the same situation as you...I am in Washington right now..would be back in Delhi in November and that is when Nicole comes there...let us get together some time around Diwali...would be fun

Cheers
Jais

jow

Hello Zahid and other members

I have Indian citizenship and I am working in USA on my H-1B visa...and now planning to move to India. I am happily married to a girl (Chinese citizen) and have a kid who being born in USA has US citizenship. I know my family should get a UN visa for the world but nonetheless…

Before I really accept a job in India, I am trying to figure out following issues. Zhahid, as probably (and hopefully) you recently went through this process and other forum members who might have knowledge and experience....I welcome all your suggestions

1. Whether Chinese citizen being spouse of Indian can get PIO card?
2. My son (I thought it would be easy for him) although one of his parent (father i.e. me) is Indian citizen however it seems because his mother is Chinese citizen he can not get PIO card. …….May be I am reading it wrong (the wordings on Consulate website “He/she or either of his/her parents or grandparents or great grandparents was born in and permanently resident in India, provided neither was at any time a citizen of any of the specified countries” Mind neither was at any time a citizen of any of the specified country (including China). ……any insight?
3. Is there any special visa scheme that someone is aware of which can convert visitor visa to residency kind of visa for my wife and son?

After all the above, in case there is someway that my family gets residency kind of visa…

• Whether my wife will be able to work in India on some visa?
• Whether my son will be able to get Indian citizenship after staying there for a while or will he always be treated as NRI on paper? And will be paying higher school and college fee? (Even though being in US for last 8 years…I don’t think I will be able to afford NRI –stamped fee in Indian colleges….poor me I am not a computer wiz (a software guy) but a poorly paid scientist

I did email to consulate enquiring the same…..however everyone knows how good our consulate bureaucrat’s offices are…no response to my three emails and their office phone just rings and rings (at least this is what I hear in my earpiece, I don’t know whether it rings in their office or not).

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance…

I am sorry… I know this was a big post

aeropriest

Hi

I got my marriage registered in China last month and we registering it here in Delhi this month. Here is what my wife's visa situation right now

1) She can never get PIO or Indian citizenship ( legally )
2) She currently have 6 months tourist visa and cant work in India ( legally )
3) When she gets the job, her company must apply for her work permit in India to work legally.

In your case, I think your son is going to have problem getting PIO or Indian citizenship because your wife is Chinese, Please get in touch with me on my email and I can give you a contact in Indian Embassy in China who might help you in your case.

Other "work around" to your wife's problem is, if she is willing to become an Indian, get her the "Ration card" made once you here and then on basis of that, get her passport made. ( just like most of refugees from Bangladesh, Nepal, Tibbet, Iran do in India)

All in all you are in just as much problem as I am. Other work around I have thought is to migrate to another country, get her and me same nationality and then move back to india at equal status.

Regards
Ashok

Nick-H

What we need is feedback from some of our members who have made previous enquiries on this! I wish they would post again.

A couple of points:

What is UN visa for the world? Are you entitles to some sort of diplomatic status?

An NRI is a person, like you, with an Indian passport/citizenship resident outside of India. Your son, with USA citizenship, is not an NRI, but a foreigner.

Oh, and I nearly forgot: Welcome to Indiamike.com!

Even if we don't get that feedback from others, I hope you'll stay in touch and let us know your experiences --- for the next guys that drop by with this same question

__________________
.


IndiaMike Mod Team (The Grumpy One)

Nick-H

<Cross-posted with aeropriest>

Thanks for contributing your experience.

My thought on the ration card is that they are like star dust: they are intended to be for those below poverty line, but even those who are can find them impossible to obtain. I think that, with political contacts, anyone could get one. Of course, it doesn't make you an Indian citizen to have one, but if presented, some officials may not look further.

Getting third-country citizenship: I think the Indian authorities will look into your wife's origin anyway

aeropriest

Yes I guess you are right about third-country citizenship, actually I gave up my Singapore green card status and now looking to get it back. I just want to Nicole, my wife, and me to have same passports so we dont have visa problems. Right now, Indian gov does't give her visa and Chinese gov does't give me visa.

Oh I am soon going to post a complete process for getting marriage registration in China and getting Indian visa to live here. (believe me it was quite a job to get marriage registration right for foreigners in China)

Dilliwala

Citizenship/PIO eligibility need be proved thru only one parent, with the proviso that the other parent is not illegally resident in India (she is not). Since u ARE (very imp) an Indian citizen and no doubt were all your life, there is no disqualification poss for PIO for your son, despite his mother being Chinese - that wud be unconstitutional. Your son is also eligible for citizenship thru u, but let me be blunt by saying that by not registering him as a citizen with the Indian embassy ay birth, u have complicated the matter. There may still be an easy way out - if your son does not have any other US document other than a birth certificate, i.e. nowhere else in any govt/official record does it say anything about his nationality, AND is under the age of 1 year - then he is readily entitled to his Indian pp. If he's over 1, but not visibly a US citizen (birth-right is automatic, but no law can force someone born in the US to automatically become a US citizen - parents have rights), then u cab still apply to the embassy and say "Galti ho gayi, deri ke liye mafi", it will happen eventually. Remember, he must not have any other country's nationality document/record; so long as he's "stateless" at present, it's ok (the bureaucrats will tell u No, but u have rights which they cannot take away - they cannot force your son to remain stateless or become a US citizen becos the 1 year period is over).

However, if your son already has a US passport or any doc/record which states he's a US citizen, then of course the matter is more complicated and will take very long. Remember, the law for citizenship still stands (he is eligible even thru Indian grandparents) but it might require a length of residence in India (which he is legally allowed thru your residence here).

I say all this on the basis of his mother being a Chinese national; that cannot be a disqualification for him since his rights flow thru u, and that's sufficient. Anything else is unconstitutional. It may require u in the worst case scenario to take the Indian govt to court, and I know what that entails, but I can only advise that u fight it out for your rights. Of course I sincerely hope that won't be necess.

BTW, did u at any time info the Indian embassy about your son's birth and/or his citizenship?
Lastly, I STRONGLY recommend that u get your son an Indian PP if poss, rather than PIO, if u want to live in India in the foreseeable future. Subject to change in US law recently, his eligibility for US citizenship is protected in the future thru his birth-cert, and he can claim that later as well if desired. Another member dzibead can give better info on this.
Others may disagree, but I believe this is the best scenario for your son as a child in India - Indian pp with US birth-cert covers him both ways.

I do not advise the fake ration-card route for your wife. It's illegal, period.
Re your Q's re your wife - if the idea is to get any of the docs before moving back to India, better not to waste time on this and just forget it.
If u get a job back in India and want to move back, your wife cannot be legally kept out. Once she's living here with u and has residence papers thru u, she can also legally seek employment.
Altho I realise a PIO card for your wife is convenient, it really isn't a problem to live here without it - I know of plenty such cases going back decades who enjoy almost all rights (except voting, govt jobs of course). What's imp to remember is her rights flow thru u, an Indian resident citizen.

He was being facetious.

Dilliwala

Ashok, if u don't mind my asking, why is no. 3 not good enough for u?
Like I said above,
a) there is NO law in this country that can separate u from your legally wedded wife. If u have moved or are moving back to India, the govt HAS to give your wife residence status (NOT citizenship, NOT OCI, a Residence Permit). It may be that she has to apply for RP in Beijing, but that's the worst poss.
b) Of course no one can work legally on a tourist visa. This applies uniformly, Chinese are not discriminated against in that case.
c) Once a legal resident, as u acknowledge she can legally get work here.
I can only advise to take this route, altho it will take a few months. At least then u can both live and work in India for the time being - kal kya hoga, kisko pata, abhi zindagi ka le lo maza! The 3rd-country route is complicated and can take years (I know of no country that provides citizenship before 2 years of legal residence).
Your status in China is another matter, which is why I feel it's better to sort one problem out at least.
I realise PIO is more convenient eventually, but let me emphasise again your wife has many rights thru u - a resident Indian citizen.

PS: As relations thaw between the two countries (witness the sorting out of some agreements on Manmohan's 'successful' visit ), eventually this matter will prob get sorted out too. Indians and Chinese WILL mix somewhere in the world, more and more. And an increasing number will intermarry, so the a.m. issues will have to be addressed by the govts.
I'm not expecting anything to happen in the next 6 months though.

I suppose one consideration for the Indian govt is that this situation is basically reciprocal, vis-a-vis Indians in China. I personally believe though, that thi is not good enough - foreign spouses in India shud have a 'better' status to other foreign residents, and this shud be independent of the reciprocity principle with regard to Indian spouses in all other countries.

Nick-H

You may consider that an OCI for your son, along with US Citizenship might be a better deal. Remember that, sadly, a US passport will give him greater access, with less hassle, to the world outside India than an Indian passport will.

OCI is a better deal than PIO if you are entitled to it, which, as far as I can see your son is, on the same basis as DW has argued above. I think there are easier routes from OCI to citizenship, should your son so desire in the future.

PIO does not give any voting rights. It gives the right to work or study, and property-ownership rights on a par with NRI.

Other long-term visa option, as spouse, as in X visa, does not give right to work, although I think DW has said elsewhere that he is aware of foreign spouses doing so.

Just for the sake of argument... not sure that it is true that a spouse cannot be legally kept out: my mother country certainly does this, and, indeed, might not allow my wife a settlement visa.

Nick-H

I do dispute that 'residency' entitles one to employment.

It is the type and terms of one's visa that determine one's rights. Residency is simply a matter of registration of one's presence.

ycl1688

i do not understand why your wife cannot get pio card.

here is a link that states your spouse is eligible to become a pio
card holder http://www.immihelp.com/nri/piocard/

ycl1688

sorry. it is stated that citizen of china cannot be a holder of
pio card, my fault.

just to make life easier why don't you talk to indian consulate.
since your son is us citizen, he is eligble to get a pio card.
now your are going back to india, you cannot leave your child and
wife behind, something has to be done.

Nick-H

I don't think Jow is planning to leave them behind!

Dilliwala

And I've said it in this thread too. Anyone with an RP by virtue of marriage to a resident Indian citizen can work, change jobs at will. They can hardly be expected to go 'home' (home is India) to change their employment visa every time. Nor do they go 'home'.

I was addressing only the cases at hand, marriage to a resident Indian citizen - I made that quite clear.

Yes, I see your point and I agree that's correct in principle, but GOI wud have to give a better reason than "we just don't like her face", for example. As capricious and whimsical as we know the bureaucracy to be, they do have to work within certain limits. Also, they can always be taken to court, but we need not go into that here.

jow

Dear Dilliwaale, I agree with Nick-H that my son will be better off with an US-passport.....although being an Indian I might not like this statement but this is true.
Fortunately/unfortunately....my son has US passport...(we went to China last Dec....so it was needed)
And the same time I reread the PIO requirement lines ...this time with my company lawyer and I agree with you that he can get PIO card, for which I am going to apply soon.