Foreigner in India after marrying an Indian

I have been following IndiaMike and Nick-H for a long long time, more than a year, just reading posts and searching for my answers. And after reading almost every thread here, I am happy that I know all legal/ official paper work. But I need an advice, especially from Nick-H.

My Situation

I am an Indian, in love with an Estonian girl. We decided to marry. She has never been to India, so I am planning to go to Estonia, marry her, apply for X Visa for 5 years, and then live in India with her.

Important - We are eloping, so once she is out of Estonia she never wants to go back, even for paper work.

Now my questions -

1. On what basis is the duration of X-visa decided by the Visa authority, Can we chose it to be 5 years just after one day of marriage?
2. If I apply for PIO card after one year, can I apply for it in India itself?
3. Documents required for PIO card are copy of her Parents Passport and her residence proof. Can we skip the Parents passport's copy(eloping, so nearly impossible to obtain)?
4. For Proof of residence for PIO, which residence? in India or Original Estonia. If its Estonia, then how is it possible to get Estonian address proof, she is here for past 1 year, to be eligible for PIO card.
5. Her passport expires in 2016, Can she get her Estonian passport renewed here in India itself?
6. The Indian Citizenship site says that a person can get Indian citizenship after 5 years, but on form 5(c), its clearly written that they want details for past 9 years living in India.
http://mha.nic.in/citizenship/forms/citi_form-2.pdf
point 7(C)

All active members, i need serious advice in my case,
Once she is here , she doesn't wanna go back.
What should we do?
A detailed info please.

xervflg, thanks ... but my experience is more than five years old now, and things change, so I don't think I am the person to answer your questions.

I doubt if she will get a five-year X visa in Estonia. When I applied for mine, in London, one-year was the longest that they would give me as a recently-wed. Don't worry about that too much... an X visa is renewable in India, and also, you could probably apply for her PIO card, in India, after one year of marriage, and before the X-visa expires.

Remember: my experience is out of date ...but maybe it helps a bit, and others have more recent tales to tell.

Ah !!! Tallinn is a very pretty town, if only the food choices improved; a very livable one. Anyways, it is neither of relevance or importance to your issues currently. What are the requirements for an Indian citizen to marry in Estonia ?

1. No, she may not get a 5 year visa. You'll will have to travel to Helsinki to get (X) visa.
2. Yes
3. I doubt, How old is your spouse ? Eloping is what teenagers do
4. ??? India
5. There is not an Permanent Estonian Mission in India, only honorary Counsel (Ask him/her how to get a passport renewed)
6. Too far off, You are not even married Think about it @ T-1 year.

Have you have not been to Estonia ? The winter is rather harsh, so plan your elopment and wedding accordingly.

PS: Is your GF an ethnic estonian, or a non-ethnic ?

Hey nycank,

We both are adults, I said elope to signify that we do not wanna go back and forth for PIO/OIC/Xvisa/LTV, once she is here, she is here.

No, I've not been to Estonia, we met in Helsinki, we both were tourist, fell in love at first sight. It was June/July, but she tells me how temp goes to (negative)15C in December.

Yes, She planned it in June, not now.

Thanks much, if by any chance you are in Europe in June, come to Tallinn.

PS: Yes She is an ethnic Estonian. aaaa... Why?

Oh I forgot to clarify, She is an adult. Still "they" need parents' passport copy to issue PIO?

Not at all.

If she was applying in her own right as having Indian origin, she would have to prove it: hence documents pertaining to parents, grandparents, as applicable, might be involved. She will not be: she will be qualified by virtue of her marriage to an Indian citizen (you ). Your documents, proving your citizenship (as well as the proof of your marriage) will be required.

Her parents, or their documents, have nothing to do with this.

Too complicated to explain. But a major snafu avoided.


No. The questions pertaining to her parents ethnicity/nationality in the PIOFORM, only ask for Indian sub-continental connection. Since she has none, no details of her parents passport is necessary.

It is not so straightforward. I know that PIO Card applicants in London have been required to supply proof of their parentage, even if their claim does not depend on Indian descent. I think the official attitude is that it is up to the applicants to prove that their own family origins are not relevant. There can be circumstances that in practice disqualify someone from holding a PIO Card, even if they appear to meet the published requirements. This was discussed in an earlier thread:
PIO Experiences-Special Situation

It would seem highly unlikely that any of this is relevant to the OP's circumstances, but it is easier for officialdom to avoid judgemental distinctions when it comes to demanding documentation.

As routine? Even if the applicant patently has not a single gene of Sri-lankan/Pakistani/etc/etc/ origin?

Would have been impossible for me: neither of my parents had a passport!

Remember these people are bureaucrats, not geneticists.

I presume you have a birth certificate, which shows your parentage, and which can be used to verify the information you provided on the application form. That is all I was referring to. If this check showed up anything of interest, they would no doubt ask for more documentation.

The point is that if someone claims PIO status by marriage, you cannot assume that the the marriage certificate, and a valid passport, will be the only documentation required relating to the applicant (rather than to the Indian origin spouse).

True. But what can they do if a married couple is standing in front of their office?

• Can they deport her back?
• What is this like some Bollywood movie where the mom and her child lives in pakistan and father is alone in India for 50 years just cause they cant get parents passport?
• I am for Political Background(folks are in Govt of India). Can I pull strings in this case?(I wanted too avoid this)

Oh pls explain. I would really like to know what snafu was avoided.

But I am happy to know that even if she does not get PIO, I can get her visa and passport renewed in India for rest of our life?Right?

When I got my PIO card some ten years ago, and when I replaced a lost one only about two years ago, they wanted my Indian husband's passport certified copy but nothing about my parents. Both parents have passed away so I wouldn't have had their pps anyway. I think in Estonia they won't be as suspicious about possible Pakistani ancestry as they are in US and UK.

When I first got married, the Indian consulate in NY gave me a 5-year X visa, but that was more than 10 years ago. Anyway, I think she can get the X visa extended while she is in India if she is married And also anyway, she can come to India on a 1-year X visa and then after one year she can apply for the PIO on the basis of your marriage and your own Indian pp. I think if you apply for PIO card in India on the basis of marriage they won't ask for her parents' pps (unless things are insanely paranoid now after Headley and Mumbai....)

I was surprised to see an old hand write this: "How old is your spouse ? Eloping is what teenagers do." It is a bit surprising to see that the Estonian girl is "eloping" and doesn't want to involve her parents, but of course it is fairly common in India for even older people who want to marry against their parents wishes to have to do so secretly, ie "elope." In the west we don't consider parents to have a veto right in their children's marriage choices unless the children are teenagers: that's why we think of "eloping" as something teenagers do. But in India your parents and all your relatives have a say, so sometimes consenting adults have to "elope!"

Its just she is like an Indian child, doesn't not want to disobey parents, but she also wants to marry me. There is a common misunderstanding about the Indians among some foreigners,that we are bad. Maybe, the parents think that. of-course she knows very well that we are not bad, but she was not able to move her parents.
And she is not allowing me to talk to her parents. I am sure if she allows me, I will win her parents, but her idea is not to involve her parents and anyone from Estonia in this(just personal reason.)

Eloping thing just makes it funny and gives us a story to tell our kids. "Kids, we eloped, and crossed continents! It was 2012."

The good thing, is that in most cases I know personally where people married against their parents' wishes, eventually the parents came around and accepted their child's spouse. Especially after there's a child, which often melt's grandparents' hearts. In a very few cases I've heard of parents who remained completely estranged and angry for years, but in most cases the parents accepted it once it was a completed act.

That is what my plan is to wait for their acceptance after the elopement. Thanks NonIndianResident.