Did I over stay my visa? OH MY GOD

dzibead

I think the fact that ren actually went to the trouble to register, even if the registration turns out to be "useless" or void, actually shows that she was acting in good faith and trying to do things properly. It's not as if she just came into the country and overstayed the visa by going underground. Unless the bureacrat she ends up dealing with is a complet a**hole, the fact that she thought she was doing things correctly and tried to go by the book as she understood it should count for a lot toward getting things sorted out.

And ren, if the bureaucrat you are faced with is an a**hole, maintain your composure and dignity, ask for his name and title and write it down, and ask to speak to his supervisor. If he claims that he is the supervisor and there's no one else you can talk to (a favorite trick of bureaucrats the world over), say you want the name and phone number or other contact information for whoever it is he reports to - because unless he's the head of Indian immigration, he reports to somebody else and you should be able to talk with them.

But don't start out your encounter with the assumption that the person is going to be a jerk! Belligerance is not an effective opening gambit. Present yourself as a person who has inadvertently gotten into a pickle and try to make the person feel that he/she has a great opportunity to help you out -- "Can you please help me to figure out how to do this right? blah, blah" -- and drip with gratitude at the slightest hint of anything favorable the person does for you. I deal with bureaucrats of one kind or another all the time in my work (although not Indian bureaucrats - but they're all the same - I used to be one, so I know), and it's amazing what groveling can accomplish.

cyberhippie

I've had a quick look around and it seems that the 1500 rupees was probably the charge for late registration, is this the case? If so this means the issueing authority also condoned the late registration, so it's not that you registered late.

Also the
Ministry of Home Affairs
Foreigners Division, MHA,
Lok Nayak Bhawan,
Khan Market,
New Delhi

Between 10 AM to 12 AM on all working days (Monday to Friday).

They are empowered to (As are FRROs)
1. condone overstay only upto 3 months, after charging overstay fees of US $ 40 equivalent. Overstays of more than 3 months are handles by the Ministry Of Home Affairs only

2. In case of foreigners of Indian origin/foreigner married to Indian citizen/foreigner staying in India for more than 20 years, extension can be given on entry Visa by FRROs for a period of 5 years.


On a side issue........ FRROs are also empowered to grant 15 day extensions on ANY visa on production af a confirmed departure ticket!!

seraph

I think this is probably correct. I suggest that you also find a good lawyer. I have met foreigners with much more difficult cases who have worked this stuff out. If a lawyer presents papers/petitions on your behalf, it is as if time stops. Your case is considered "under review" and nothing can be done until it is reviewed. I know someone who went all the way to the Supreme Court of India and won the right to stay in India. Unlike you, this person claimed that he was really a Hindu and at the time he was not even married to an Indian. (Before I get a bunch of incredulous responses, the court did not rule that he was a Hindu, but ruled in his favor because the State had botched its case.)

The fact that you are married to an Indian also means that the bureaucracy will not want to fight this too hard because you actually can legally stay in India thanks to your marriage. The only problem with the lawyer approach is that you will not be able to leave India until you case is fully reviewed and this may take years.

Jotting down names is not always enough. In India you sometimes have to avail yourself of the all-powerful COMPLAINT BOOK. Few things spread fear into the hearts of bureaucrats like this dreaded book. Quite often they will claim that it is under lock and key or that they do not have the authority to get it, but if you insist, you will find it in the end. Every government office must have one. Just be persistent and cool-headed and the book will eventually materialize. Though my experience is that people usually cave in long before the book is produced. (Remember this the next time Sharifuddin gives you a hard time.)

Remember to keep a record of EVERYTHING and keep a journal with the dates, names and times you speak with anyone. I have heard that the Home Office in Delhi is much more efficient than the local FRRO/FRO's and that it has the ultimate authority. It may be worth your while to take another trip to Delhi.

Nick-H

Agree with dzi... a certain amount of grovelling is absolutely called for. The word Sir (or Madam) must be used liberally.

Chennai office has a sign something like members of the public may approach director for interview without appointment during hours --- to ---(although we got in by Mrs N marching into the back office!

__________________
.


Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Nick-H

Seraph... I couldn't possibly advise against using a lawyer (dzi might never speak to me again ) but I can relate from my own experience...

We were advised to use a lawyer/agent by a company here that deals with a lot of expats and business stuff. We were advised by a retired Immigration Dept senior not to use one! He said that they really don't like applications submitted through agents. We went with the agent: turned into a complete farce, as I have told elsewhere.

On the other hand, if Ren is being accused of something, I thnk she has no choice but to find a lawyer: then it might be tough to find one that knows anything about Indian immigration law. It'll be people like my idiot in his plush office who deal with foreign corporates and charge accordingly that are used to dealing with this work. I'd be glad to be corrected on this!

seraph

OK, here is what I don't understand in all of this. Where is Mr. Ren and why isn't he and his family taking a much more proactive role in all of this? If anything, he should know these things and perhaps even have some connections. From your post and from the previous thread it seems to me like he has left you to fend for yourself.

capt_mahajan

Would advise against a lawyer, at least at first. Matters may get resolved without this quite satisfactorily, and lawyers tend to consume time.

See where you stand without one first; you can always get one at any time.

pooch

Ren, use this info and lay all else to rest.

1. A residential permit OVERRIDES the visa you arrive on.

2. If you paid Rs.1500 then it is probably the USD30 fee they penalize you for late registration. If it was a bribe nobody is going to know since the RP was granted anyway.

3. It is usually the state's home affairs division that grants you a residential permit as long as you have a valid visa of one sort or the other (tourist/X etc.). The central govt. or M.H.A. in Delhi authorizes or grants extensions and permits when you seek further stay in India when your visa is about to run out or has already. The state's immigration dept can grant you a grace period of 15 days to leave the country provided you hold a confirmed flight ticket out and haven't overstayed your visa by more than 90 days. If you have overstayed longer the state refers the case to Delhi.

4. The guys in Delhi probably meant your RP won't do you any good for a PIO application unless you have been MARRIED for a year.

Bottom line : You hold a legit valid residential permit. Even if you did not pay the late fee it is at the discretion of the immigration officials who grant you a RP to waive it.

Advice : If any of you plan to use your Indian origin or relationship to an Indian/PIO to stay longer in India the least you can do right at the start is to get yourself registered within 14 days.

pooch

You don't need a lawyer and you won't even find one familiar with immigration laws, in fact you won't even find a junior at those immigration dept.s who is thorough with issues related to vias and the like.

dzibead

Not to mention money.

Speaking as a lawyer, that's what I'd advise, too. No charge. Free to IM memebers.

dzibead

Hm-m-m. I don't think so. I'm pretty sure what the guy in Delhi told her is correct. As ren has only a tourist visa, the RP was issued by mistake, probably because the local FRO was confused by the fact that it was a one-year multiple entry visa. But it's still a tourist visa, and it still requires departure before the expiration of the 180 day period. I know of at least one U.S. citizen with a 10-year multiple entry visa who was mistakenly issued a Residential Permit, and then had it yanked when when the FRO realized that it was nevertheless a tourist visa, not an employment visa or some other class of visa that allows a longer stay. The longer duration of tourist visas issued to U.S. citizens seems to confuse some of the FRO's, who then do things to confuse the visa holders.

I believe the 90-day/ three-month extension referred to in post #10 above, by pooch, applies only to business and employment visas. The FRO can extend the these types of visas for three months and submit an application for a further extension up to 1 year to Ministry of Home Affairs -- but I have read that tourist visas are excluded from this scheme. If MHA approval is received, the FRO can extend the employment or business visa for up to four more one-year extensions, on on year-to-year basis.

Nick-H

Tourist visas can be extended. I'm hesitant to say that, because in almost all cases that come up on Indiamike it just will not apply.

But I can say it, on the basis that they offered to give me a three month extension while they and the agent continued to botch up my conversion to X. (yes, tourist visas can be converted as well, but same comment as above...)

For various reasons, an extended tourist visa was useless to me and I turned it down.

Even if I had succeeded in getting my conversion done in India, there were heaps of forms to be filled, an affidavit to be made by my wife, police checks on whether we were actually living together or not, interviews with obstructionist b'crats.

All it took in London was Mrs N's passport, our wedding cert and ten minutes at the counter. I'd advise anyone to fly home and apply for a new visa there.

Pooch.... that seems to me to be a good few assumptions that you are making. Unless you are an MHA official?

ren

IF I am only allowed to stay for six months at a time (If that damn paper from the PCO HYD isn't valid, as I now suspect is the case..) then I've over-stayed by 11 or 12 days now. And there is no way I'll be able to go to Delhi (to talk to the FRO ) for at least a week.

Someone mentioned their residental permit has a stamp from the Ministry of Home Affairs - mine only has a stamp from the Police Commisioner's office, Hyderabad.

My husband is not being helpful, he says I am not a TOURIST, I am married to an Indian. I said it doesn't make any difference at this point!

I don't think going to the Police Comissioner's office to enquire would be helpful for me (read my other posts on that..) so, really I don't know what to do until I can get to Delhi.

IF I have over-stayed, what will the consequinces be?

I was in Delhi a little more than a month ago, trying to apply for an x-entry visa and they sent me back to Hyd to get a paper from the PCO HYD. Those *ssholes, it's they're fault I've (maybe) overstayed. If they hadn't f*cked with me for more than 3 weeks, I'd have returned to Delhi within a few days and (maybe) gotten my new visa? and maybe I wouldn't be in this situation.

ren

This was an "undocumented fee" given to the PCO in Hyderabad, so that they would write a letter to the FRO in Delhi confirming I am married to an Indian nation and staying in Hyderabad. I was trying to get an x-entry visa and I sent back to Hyd to get this letter from the f*ckers at the PCO.

I registered with them in June, I arrived in India on 26th of April. THAT time, they asked for 500 rupees.

The PCO in Hyderabad issued a "registration permit" (I posted about it here, perhaps you can find that thread) But it only has their stamp on it, not the ministry of home affairs stamp.

I'm more ampt to believe the guy in Delhi, since he hasn't fucked with me, when I've had NOTHING but problems with the PCO here.

And, what he is saying makes since.

ren

I got a Residential Permit today....

here is the link I mentioned above. I posted it in utter confusion about how/why I was issued a residential permit..