an artist in india

13blackcrows · Jan 5th, 2008, 03:09

hello everyone

my visa company had me fill out a form

she says india requires of all artist, photograhpers and journalist

that says "i will not do any artwork in india"

what should i make of this?

the opoponax · Jan 5th, 2008, 04:00

Well, what I did was call myself a "designer" on the original form, and then when I was at the embassy's drop-off point, made myself sound completely un-artistic and unrelated to the media in any way. "Oh, y'know, I'm basically just a flunky designing the labels for cans of corn..."

Of course, I am a graphic designer among other things, so that wasn't really a lie.

If you are just sending the basic visa form into the San Francisco office, you should do the same -- DO NOT put artist/journalist/photographer in the "occupation" blank. India does not want journalists and the like coming into the country on tourist visas.

If you really are going to India to work on some media related pursuit, then I would guess that A) you don't qualify for a tourist visa anyway, and B) there will be a lot more hoops for you to jump through.

artwallah · Jan 5th, 2008, 04:10

I have gone twice to India specifically to paint there, with a fellow artist, most recently Feb/March 2007. We both put "Artist" on the visa appiications, painted out on the streets from Mumbai to Calcutta to Madurai. Never had the slightest problem. Oh, wait, we got tossed out of Tiger Cave in Mahabalipuram where we were painting because it is a historic protected site and we didn't have a permit. We didn't paint in those places again after that, and there's soooo much in India to paint it really doesn't matter. In Orchha, we ran into a group of British artists, also painting outside. I don't think it is a problem. On earlier trips to India I also put Artist on the visa and no one said anything.

the opoponax · Jan 5th, 2008, 04:21

This is also a good time to remember that, while we might like to call ourselves artists or photographers or writers or filmmakers at cocktail parties and on our resumes and such, if you're going to India as a tourist and yet also want to paint, write, shoot video footage, etc. that should probably not be either your occupation or the purpose of your visit on the paperwork (even if you plan to eventually make money from the material you create/gather on your trip), unless you've been hired or commissioned to do those things directly for money, in which case you probably don't qualify for a tourist visa.

It's much easier to just put down whatever your day job is on the visa forms, and then paint to your heart's content when you get there. None of your cool artsy friends are going to find out you called yourself a "retail sales clerk" on your visa paperwork.

13blackcrows · Jan 5th, 2008, 06:31

yeah

its amazing the power the world gives art...i wonder if a lawyer is prohibited from thingking of a case in india or a techie is prohibited from looking at whats happening in india?

i wish i hadnt mentioned i am an artist

but its done...

do you think having sketching pencils or watercolors in my carry on
would be a prob? its just what i do in my spare time....

i was even thinking of carrying some paints but i suppose thats out of th question?

the opoponax · Jan 5th, 2008, 07:20

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if they were on the lookout for techies who want to work on a tourist visa, either. When I handed in my paperwork saying "designer", the guy looking it over and making "small talk" asked me up front if I was a web designer.

I'm sure they would be equally attentive if an attorney handed in paperwork implying that he planned to practice law in India.

Basically the deal is that they don't want people to work on a tourist visa. They don't care if you make sketches for future paintings you may someday sell. What they are mainly trying to do is screen out journalists and pro photographers.

If the damage is already done, well, um, I guess you just have to fill out all the ensuing paperwork and see what happens. You probably ought to make it clear that you're definitely visiting for pleasure and not work, aren't a journalist of any kind, and that you aren't on assignment for some sort of arts/media organization. If they want you to sign something saying that you don't plan to make any art in India, I guess you should just sign it.

They're not going to have spies following you around making sure you never whip out a sketch pad, or search your bags for art supplies. Though bringing an entire studio's worth of stuff would probably raise eyebrows.

Aishah · Jan 5th, 2008, 08:00

Some of my friends are artists, and they come on tourist visas, but put 'Retired' or House Manager or something like this. They bring their equipment and if people ask they say it is their hobby. I see painting groups coming here - travelling artists, some are full time, some as a hobby - they are never bothered except by folks in the street who are intensely curious.
As suggested think of another word for all the things you do and put that in. Also be prepared with a good answer at Customs because often they will ask you as you enter the country something about your 'occupation'.
I don't see any problems really for you if you call yourself another creative title with a good story to support it e.g. do you mow your own lawns, do your fix your taps etc.? Then you can be 'Home Caretaker' - I'm sure you can think of some interesting work for yourself that you do! Just be sure not to put 'Artist' on any Hotel 'C" Form - this is the one that is sent to the CID, Foreigner Registration Office people. And keep a low profile about your being a full time artist.
Personally, I think this is ridiculous discrimination but it's a case of 'when in India, do as they do'...

the opoponax · Jan 5th, 2008, 08:30

I've been working in the NY art scene for years, and I know like 2 people who are serious full time artists with no other source of income (and who couldn't say something like "student", "homemaker", etc).

And those people sure as hell don't live in Cincinnati or Santa Fe. I hate to sound snobby or elitist or whatever, but unless you are Matthew Barney, you have something else you can put down. It might not sound as fancy as "artist", but fancy is the opposite of what you're going for when you fill out that visa application.

13blackcrows · Jan 5th, 2008, 08:36

im sorry i wasnt clearer....

i received my visa back this week...

my bigger concern was getting out of the airport and not

being mangled with silly questions about sketch books and charcoal etc.....

im going to india to absorb the experience but i draw and write compulsively at times

the opoponax · Jan 5th, 2008, 08:44

Tell them it's a hobby. Which it sounds like it is, anyway. And like I said, don't bring a whole studio's worth of crazy equipment. Bring a "hobby" level of supplies, not the kind of stuff someone who'd been hired to come build an installation at a big Bombay art gallery would bring.

If you don't know the difference, you shouldn't have gotten yourself into this mess in the first place by putting "artist" down as your occupation.

13blackcrows · Jan 5th, 2008, 09:13

i put down what i am

the mess

is the government bureacracy

artwallah · Jan 5th, 2008, 09:20

I think you guys are being very very paranoid about this. There are no rules or regulations saying you can't bring in a sketchbook and a pencil, for goodness sake! I had (twice) an easel full of pastels that took up pretty much my entire suitcase. No one said a word. And artist IS my profession, so of course I put it down on the visa. 5 times now, since 1995, I have done that. No one has ever asked me about it, commented on it, or done anything but stamp it routinely at the airport.

the opoponax · Jan 5th, 2008, 09:30

The thing is, though, that in 13blackcrows' case, he put it on the visa, and now it has been asked about, commented on, etc.

Of course I agree with you that a baby easel and a box of pastels isn't going to get him in any trouble.

What WOULD get him in trouble would be if he showed up with crates of studio art supplies, the sort of thing an artist who was coming to India for work reasons would travel with.

The gallery I used to work for here in the states sponsored international artists all the time. They COULD NOT enter the USA as tourists, we had to sponsor them for work visas if we were paying them or if they were bringing work (or materials for work) that was likely to sell here in the US. And then we had to go through all sorts of procedures to get their piles and piles of equipment, finished artworks, etc. through customs. There's a massive difference between "I'm traveling abroad for fun and inspiration and will probably do a little sketching" and "I've been hired to come to this country and make art".

If you do not know the difference between these two things, your best bet is to put down what you really do for a living and avoid having to even think about it.

capt_mahajan · Jan 5th, 2008, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13blackcrows

i put down what i am
the mess
is the government bureacracy

the mess is a country's laws

which you have to follow.

same as anywhere else.

Nick-H · Jan 5th, 2008, 11:26

Nobody in customs

will even look at you

except perhaps if

they notice

that

you

are carrying too much white space.

Jan 5th, 2008, 03:09	#1
13blackcrows Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: west Posts: 23	an artist in india hello everyone my visa company had me fill out a form she says india requires of all artist, photograhpers and journalist that says "i will not do any artwork in india" what should i make of this?

Jan 5th, 2008, 08:00	#7
Aishah She-who-must-be-obeyed! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Jaisalmer Posts: 4,947	Some of my friends are artists, and they come on tourist visas, but put 'Retired' or House Manager or something like this. They bring their equipment and if people ask they say it is their hobby. I see painting groups coming here - travelling artists, some are full time, some as a hobby - they are never bothered except by folks in the street who are intensely curious. As suggested think of another word for all the things you do and put that in. Also be prepared with a good answer at Customs because often they will ask you as you enter the country something about your 'occupation'. I don't see any problems really for you if you call yourself another creative title with a good story to support it e.g. do you mow your own lawns, do your fix your taps etc.? Then you can be 'Home Caretaker' - I'm sure you can think of some interesting work for yourself that you do! Just be sure not to put 'Artist' on any Hotel 'C" Form - this is the one that is sent to the CID, Foreigner Registration Office people. And keep a low profile about your being a full time artist. Personally, I think this is ridiculous discrimination but it's a case of 'when in India, do as they do'... __________________ "Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards."

Jan 5th, 2008, 11:26	#15
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,746	Nobody in customs will even look at you except perhaps if they notice that you are carrying too much white space. __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

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Jan 5th, 2008, 04:00	#2
the opoponax Maha Guru Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Brooklyn, via New Orleans Posts: 1,054	Well, what I did was call myself a "designer" on the original form, and then when I was at the embassy's drop-off point, made myself sound completely un-artistic and unrelated to the media in any way. "Oh, y'know, I'm basically just a flunky designing the labels for cans of corn..." Of course, I am a graphic designer among other things, so that wasn't really a lie. If you are just sending the basic visa form into the San Francisco office, you should do the same -- DO NOT put artist/journalist/photographer in the "occupation" blank. India does not want journalists and the like coming into the country on tourist visas. If you really are going to India to work on some media related pursuit, then I would guess that A) you don't qualify for a tourist visa anyway, and B) there will be a lot more hoops for you to jump through.

Jan 5th, 2008, 04:10	#3
artwallah Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH USA Posts: 68	I have gone twice to India specifically to paint there, with a fellow artist, most recently Feb/March 2007. We both put "Artist" on the visa appiications, painted out on the streets from Mumbai to Calcutta to Madurai. Never had the slightest problem. Oh, wait, we got tossed out of Tiger Cave in Mahabalipuram where we were painting because it is a historic protected site and we didn't have a permit. We didn't paint in those places again after that, and there's soooo much in India to paint it really doesn't matter. In Orchha, we ran into a group of British artists, also painting outside. I don't think it is a problem. On earlier trips to India I also put Artist on the visa and no one said anything.

Jan 5th, 2008, 04:21	#4
the opoponax Maha Guru Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Brooklyn, via New Orleans Posts: 1,054	This is also a good time to remember that, while we might like to call ourselves artists or photographers or writers or filmmakers at cocktail parties and on our resumes and such, if you're going to India as a tourist and yet also want to paint, write, shoot video footage, etc. that should probably not be either your occupation or the purpose of your visit on the paperwork (even if you plan to eventually make money from the material you create/gather on your trip), unless you've been hired or commissioned to do those things directly for money, in which case you probably don't qualify for a tourist visa. It's much easier to just put down whatever your day job is on the visa forms, and then paint to your heart's content when you get there. None of your cool artsy friends are going to find out you called yourself a "retail sales clerk" on your visa paperwork.

Jan 5th, 2008, 06:31	#5
13blackcrows Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: west Posts: 23	yeah its amazing the power the world gives art...i wonder if a lawyer is prohibited from thingking of a case in india or a techie is prohibited from looking at whats happening in india? i wish i hadnt mentioned i am an artist but its done... do you think having sketching pencils or watercolors in my carry on would be a prob? its just what i do in my spare time.... i was even thinking of carrying some paints but i suppose thats out of th question?

Jan 5th, 2008, 07:20	#6
the opoponax Maha Guru Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Brooklyn, via New Orleans Posts: 1,054	Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if they were on the lookout for techies who want to work on a tourist visa, either. When I handed in my paperwork saying "designer", the guy looking it over and making "small talk" asked me up front if I was a web designer. I'm sure they would be equally attentive if an attorney handed in paperwork implying that he planned to practice law in India. Basically the deal is that they don't want people to work on a tourist visa. They don't care if you make sketches for future paintings you may someday sell. What they are mainly trying to do is screen out journalists and pro photographers. If the damage is already done, well, um, I guess you just have to fill out all the ensuing paperwork and see what happens. You probably ought to make it clear that you're definitely visiting for pleasure and not work, aren't a journalist of any kind, and that you aren't on assignment for some sort of arts/media organization. If they want you to sign something saying that you don't plan to make any art in India, I guess you should just sign it. They're not going to have spies following you around making sure you never whip out a sketch pad, or search your bags for art supplies. Though bringing an entire studio's worth of stuff would probably raise eyebrows.

Jan 5th, 2008, 08:30	#8
the opoponax Maha Guru Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Brooklyn, via New Orleans Posts: 1,054	I've been working in the NY art scene for years, and I know like 2 people who are serious full time artists with no other source of income (and who couldn't say something like "student", "homemaker", etc). And those people sure as hell don't live in Cincinnati or Santa Fe. I hate to sound snobby or elitist or whatever, but unless you are Matthew Barney, you have something else you can put down. It might not sound as fancy as "artist", but fancy is the opposite of what you're going for when you fill out that visa application.

Jan 5th, 2008, 08:36	#9
13blackcrows Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: west Posts: 23	im sorry i wasnt clearer.... i received my visa back this week... my bigger concern was getting out of the airport and not being mangled with silly questions about sketch books and charcoal etc..... im going to india to absorb the experience but i draw and write compulsively at times

Jan 5th, 2008, 08:44	#10
the opoponax Maha Guru Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Brooklyn, via New Orleans Posts: 1,054	Tell them it's a hobby. Which it sounds like it is, anyway. And like I said, don't bring a whole studio's worth of crazy equipment. Bring a "hobby" level of supplies, not the kind of stuff someone who'd been hired to come build an installation at a big Bombay art gallery would bring. If you don't know the difference, you shouldn't have gotten yourself into this mess in the first place by putting "artist" down as your occupation.

Jan 5th, 2008, 09:13	#11
13blackcrows Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: west Posts: 23	i put down what i am the mess is the government bureacracy

Jan 5th, 2008, 09:20	#12
artwallah Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH USA Posts: 68	I think you guys are being very very paranoid about this. There are no rules or regulations saying you can't bring in a sketchbook and a pencil, for goodness sake! I had (twice) an easel full of pastels that took up pretty much my entire suitcase. No one said a word. And artist IS my profession, so of course I put it down on the visa. 5 times now, since 1995, I have done that. No one has ever asked me about it, commented on it, or done anything but stamp it routinely at the airport.

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Jan 5th, 2008, 09:30	#13
the opoponax Maha Guru Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Brooklyn, via New Orleans Posts: 1,054	The thing is, though, that in 13blackcrows' case, he put it on the visa, and now it has been asked about, commented on, etc. Of course I agree with you that a baby easel and a box of pastels isn't going to get him in any trouble. What WOULD get him in trouble would be if he showed up with crates of studio art supplies, the sort of thing an artist who was coming to India for work reasons would travel with. The gallery I used to work for here in the states sponsored international artists all the time. They COULD NOT enter the USA as tourists, we had to sponsor them for work visas if we were paying them or if they were bringing work (or materials for work) that was likely to sell here in the US. And then we had to go through all sorts of procedures to get their piles and piles of equipment, finished artworks, etc. through customs. There's a massive difference between "I'm traveling abroad for fun and inspiration and will probably do a little sketching" and "I've been hired to come to this country and make art". If you do not know the difference between these two things, your best bet is to put down what you really do for a living and avoid having to even think about it.