How to make good ENGLISH BREAD at home

cityMONK

i have just seen a thread "why we don't get good bread in india."
but i understand in india in most of homes a very fresh and wholesome chapati or fulka is made, avilable no where in world so fresh.europeans call these {rotis/naans} indian bread.


i occasionaly make english bread in our oven,by fermenting maida or refiened floor with dry yeast.but these are not perfect , a bit too heavy. can some body give recpies of good english or bakery bread.simple variants will do.

gw5458

Part of your problem may be the flour you use. English/European breads use a "strong" type of flour that becomes quite elastic after a few minutes kneading. Specially true for French and Italian breads. Most Indian flours seem to be 'softer'. A wholegrain chappati flour (atta?) might be a reasonable substitute. Here's a simple recipe which always works for me.

Make a starter mix - sometimes called a "flying sponge" - by mixing 100g of flour with 150g lukewarm water and 5g of dry yeast. Leave this aside somewhere warm (which shouldn't be a problem!)for 20-30 minutes and it will start to froth.

Measure out 400g flour and 10g salt. Be careful not to add too much salt - important! Add the "flying sponge" and another 170g of water. Best to do this is a large deep bowl. Mix together thoroughly then knead it hard on a flat surface for five minutes or so until it stops being sticky and becomes springy. If the dough is very sticky just add a little more flour.

Cover the dough with a cloth to stop the surface drying out and let it rise somewhere warm for 30 minutes. It will probably double in size. Then give it another brief kneading just to knock the gas out of it. Shape it into a loaf on a oiled baking tray or put it in an oiled baking tin and then let it rise for a further 15 minutes. Bake it in a pre-heated oven at 200 C for 35 minutes (on a tray) or 45 minutes (in a tin). Let it cool on a wire rack or something similar - it will get very wet if you put it on a hard surface. Putting an oven-proof dish with a little water in the oven with the bread will make the crust less hard.

I'd love to know if you try this and get decent results!

Good luck!

Tnau

I don't know much about India, but I do know a little about bread. I suggest that you look at the recipe section and discussion at the web site http://www.kingarthurflour.com/. King Arthur is a 'boutique' flour mill and retailer in Vermont in the U.S. Their recipes are very good, very reliable, and they are generally very helpful. I would look at their basic recipes. Once you develop a basic recipe, you can vary it in many ways. (The key thing is to maintain the percentages of flour/ water.)
The King Arthur discussion boards can help you with adapting to Indian conditions. If this is not helpful, you can try the "bread-bakers" list - people often post messages about adapting to heat, etc.
You can also check the Internet, the archive of the New York Times, or Cooks Illustrated magazine for something known as 'No Knead Bread.' This is an interesting and very easy approach to making bread. It was very much praised by 'bread people' over the last few years. You basically mix, no kneading, and leave the dough for 24 hours or so. My only advice about the No Knead Bread is to use parchment paper, which prevents the flour/water/yeast/salt/etc. mix from sticking to your pan.
If you would like to make truly "English bread" the best source is Elizabeth David's book on bread. She goes into the history and making of English bread. It is an excellent book, but you really don't need to go beyond King Arthur for basic bread recipes.
Finally the essence of good bread is time - you never want to push or speed up the rising process. Thus you would never put the dough in the oven at a low heat, as many recipes recommend. Starters - which is a fancy way of saying that you mix some of the flour with an equal amount of water and very small amount of yeast - should be given at least six hours to develop, and can easily be kept overnight. You can keep your starter in the fridge for three days.
I hope all of this is of some help. Bread can be a lot of fun, no matter what culture. Years ago when I was writing on British perceptions of India, I was part of an Indian food cooperative at the University of Chicago. One of our memorable meals was when a famous scholar from Delhi came to dinner and taught us how to make puris and chapatis.
Good luck!

gw5458

>>>Leave this aside somewhere warm (which shouldn't be a problem!)for 20-30 minutes and it will start to froth.<<<

Just dawned on me that "warm" is very different in Delhi from here in Wales. Somewhere between 20 and 30 C is what I meant. Which probably means in the fridge in Delhi in July

cityMONK

dear gw5458,
thanks for your quick and detailed response. i will certainly
try and give feed back to you.i have few questions.

( A wholegrain chappati flour (atta?) might be a reasonable substitute. Here's a simple recipe which always works for me.)

indian author whose recpie i follow forbids atta flour as
he says it has lot of protien and yeast will not be able to break it and hence dough will not expand much.




(Make a starter mix - sometimes called a "flying sponge" - by mixing 100g of flour with 150g lukewarm water and 5g of dry yeast. Leave this aside somewhere warm (which shouldn't be a problem!)for 20-30 minutes and it will start to froth.)

a very good idiea ,i think it solves my first question.

(Measure out 400g flour and 10g salt. Be careful not to add too much salt - important!)

is salt so important for breads.presently i am adding both salt and sugar though a pinch only.

(Cover the dough with a cloth to stop the surface drying out and let it rise somewhere warm for 30 minutes. It will probably double in size. Then give it another brief kneading just to knock the gas out of it. Shape it into a loaf on a oiled baking tray or put it in an oiled baking tin and then let it rise for a further 15 minutes. Bake it in a pre-heated oven at 200 C for 35 minutes (on a tray) or 45 minutes (in a tin). Let it cool on a wire rack or something similar - it will get very wet if you put it on a hard surface. Putting an oven-proof dish with a little water in the oven with the bread will make the crust less hard.)

difference between open tray and tin baking style.whenever i use open tray result is very dry and hard surface bread.tin i think is totaly concealed container(tin with lid closed.)i would prefer to use open tray.also is it important to knead gas away.

warm regards

cityMONK

Dear Tnau,

very nice to have expert advice from your goodself.nice to hear you now how to make puris and chapatis.temparatures here in delhi
are 43 degrees summer and in winter it is 16 degress.rainy season is just to begin with lot of humidity and tempratures around 38 degrees.this rainy season is considered very good for fermenting part.

regards

gw5458

>>>indian author whose recpie i follow forbids atta flour as
he says it has lot of protien and yeast will not be able to break it and hence dough will not expand much.<<<

I don't think that the high protein is necessarily a big issue. All flours are different, as are all bakers. Be adventurous and dont let any author "forbid" you from trying something out. You might just prove him wrong For western-style breads it is mainly the kneading which changes the protein structure rather than the yeast and that's why there is a marked change in the texture and look of the dough after kneading and before the yeast has had time to act. If you are concerned than try kneading it for a little longer. It's good therapeutic exercise. It's also almost impossible to knead too much by hand - your arms would drop off first Try experimenting with a range of different flours until you find one which works for you. And add sunflower seeds, crushed nuts, herbs, chopped onion or anything else that takes your fancy if you like. It's YOUR bread so you decide what goes!

>>>is salt so important for breads.presently i am adding both salt and sugar though a pinch only.<<<

My bread-making teacher Clive, a professional craftsman baker for 45 years, reckons it is vital. And the proportion is VERY important. One UK government website about salt in food says "There are a number of reasons why salt is used in bread making. It adds flavour, it helps the bread take shape and it stops the bread rising too much. This is because salt slows down the yeast, unlike sugar which speeds the yeast up. So without salt, the yeast makes the dough rise too much, giving you a poor loaf and a collapsed crust." Unless you like to eat sweet bread I would leave out the sugar. It is really not necessary - yeasts evolved to live on wheat, not sugar cane. Just seeing your "flying sponge" after 20 minutes should convince you of that


>>>difference between open tray and tin baking style.whenever i use open tray result is very dry and hard surface bread.tin i think is totaly concealed container(tin with lid closed.)i would prefer to use open tray.<<<

On an open tray you get a firm crust all around the loaf. A loaf tin is a rectangular metal dish without a lid. Mine are about 30cm x 15cm x 10cm deep. I would have this about half-full of dough before the second rise. When baked the bread will form a round domed top. With a baking tin the bottom and sides of the bread will have a thin soft crust and only the top surface becomes hard. I bake both ways but prefer to use a tray. I like crusty bread. Adding water to the oven during baking stops the crust from being too dry and crumbly.

>>>also is it important to knead gas away.<<<

Yes. The first period of rising ("proving") is when most of the chemical changes in the dough take place. A lot of CO2 gas is generated - far more than you really want for good bread. Kneading the bread again briefly (only one minute or so) allows you to have a shorter second rise which further improves the texture of the finished bread but also ensures that there is the right proportion of gas.

Happy baking!

cityMONK

Dear gw5458,

Your techniques seem very practical and amazingly simple. Kneading is no problem to me i enjoy doing it. Would like to try at first opportunity. Also though I will prefer open tray can circular tins as we use for cake making employed here.

will warm weather of delhi help in reducing curing time.As i have asked to many professional NAN (type of indian bread) makers
they say they khamir (add yeast or curd to dough and leave) for one hour maximum, and in summer even half an hour will do the trick.


Warm regards

fsg

OH makes bread in a bread machine, and very successful it is too

1 part ATTA to 3 parts MAIDA, and 1 vitamin C tablet,[not the flavoured variety] with salt ,sugar, water and milk powder , sorry the recipe is there and not with me in UK

Vitamin C is supposed to aid the yeast to rise, and given the Indian flours are not so 'strong' in gluten as the flours we use in the west, every little helps.

cityMONK

{Indian flours are not so 'strong' in gluten as the flours we use in the west, every little helps.[/quote]}

is the high fibre atta what we get from naibourhood chakki (micro flour miil),freshly made from wheat, also not strong or low in gluten.i can understand branded packets are low on fibre.

fsg

Sorry I dont have access to a micro mill.

We use 'packet' flour ' Pondicherry brand.

There is some info on gluten in flours on the net

fsg

http://www.aaoobfoods.com/breadmakingtips.htm

Good info

You could also try making a sourdough starter, with the heat in India it will certainly do well, again plenty of advice by searching

Haylo

As others have suggested, temperature is really important for yeast - summer heat might be just too hot for the yeast to multiply - in England the problem's often finding a place in the house that's warm enough for the dough to prove, in India I suspect it's the other way round.

Also, the importance of kneading dough to develop the gluten strings that impart the texture cannot be emphasised enough, especially if "proper" strong bread flour is not available. Others have suggested briefly knocking it back after proving, but I give it a second good kneading before shaping the rolls / loaf. It is hard work, but it's fantastic exercise!

Oh, and another tip. I reserve a quarter of my bread dough and roll it out into a square. I then sprinkle it with dark brown sugar, cinnamon and sultanas and dot it with an ounce or so of butter. Then I roll the dough up, cut it into slices, place the slices flat on a baking tray, and sprinkle them with sugar. After proving them for 15 minutes, bake as for bread rolls and hey presto you have instant Chelsea Buns. - the link is to a photo showing them before and after proving, after baking, and as separate buns.

__________________
The world is mud-luscious and puddle-wonderful - E.E. Cummings, poet (1894-1962)

gw5458

>>>Also though I will prefer open tray can circular tins as we use for cake making employed here.<<<

That should be OK. It just means you have a round loaf so your slices will start very small and get larger towards the middle

>>>will warm weather of delhi help in reducing curing time.As i have asked to many professional NAN (type of indian bread) makers
they say they khamir (add yeast or curd to dough and leave) for one hour maximum, and in summer even half an hour will do the trick.<<<

With the recipe I suggested the proving time is already quite short. I wouldn't expect hot weather to make more than a few minutes difference. The length of the first proving is not too critical, the second one is more important to judge properly.

>>>1 part ATTA to 3 parts MAIDA, and 1 vitamin C tablet,[not the flavoured variety] with salt ,sugar, water and milk powder , sorry the recipe is there and not with me in UK<<<

Sounds worth a try if you prefer a sweeter bread like the sliced white bread usually sold in Indian shops. Traditional British breads are not normally sweet except for those which use malted grain flours - those have the natural barley and wheat sugars which are used to make beer, gin and whisky. I think the sweetness and dryness of Indian "English bread" is a bit of a surprise and a disappointment for many westerners who prefer to stick with the nan, chappati and other fresh local breads.

>>>Vitamin C is supposed to aid the yeast to rise, and given the Indian flours are not so 'strong' in gluten as the flours we use in the west, every little helps.<<<

A useful suggestion. I would experiment by making some bread with and without Vitamin C - just divide your dough into two portions before kneading and add the Vitamin C to one. It would probably mix more easily if you dissolved it in a small amount of warm water then added that to the dough. Bake both together and then you can see and taste the results side by side. It will probably take some trial and a bit of error to get a result you are happy with. If one of my experiments is not too successful my chickens get an extra treat that day. Goats, cows or monkeys would probably be grateful too

cityMONK

{If one of my experiments is not too successful my chickens get an extra treat that day. Goats, cows or monkeys would probably be grateful too}

that was nice.you have all these enlightened souls near your house.