Trains or bullock Carts?

sabby80 · Dec 30th, 2006, 00:58

Ever wondered why the trains journeys are such a pain in India? Apart from the horribly dirty toilets & awful, unhygenic food just check out the average speed of two Super Fast!!! Trains in India

Delhi - Mumbai Rajdhani Express ( This is the fastest long distance train in India)

Total journey time : 16hrs
Stoppages : 5 ( 31mins )
Actual travel time : 15.5 hrs

Total Distance covered : 1384 Kms / 860 miles

Average Speed = 89.2 km/hr = 55.5 mi/hr - Thats the fastest train(Apart from shatabdis which are short distance trains anyway)

Now take any normal train - I'll pick Karnataka Express which runs between Delhi & our own silicon valley - Bangalore!

Total journey time : 40.4 hrs
Stoppages : 29 ( 113 mins) ha! ha !

Actual travel time : 39 hrs approx
Distance : 2484Km / 1543 miles

Average Speed : 63.69 Kmph = 39.55 Miles/hr

steven_ber · Dec 30th, 2006, 05:22

There's always aeroplanes for quicker journeys, I prefer the trains the was they are.

Lalu has just speeded-up hundreds of trains, I have a feeling that most will be returned to their old times next year.

sabby80 · Dec 30th, 2006, 14:04

aeroplanes are much faster no doubt but most indians can't afford travelling in them - a great deal do fly now thanks to the low cost airlines but even that is a very small percentage!

Quote:

Originally Posted by steven_ber

There's always aeroplanes for quicker journeys, I prefer the trains the was they are.

Lalu has just speeded-up hundreds of trains, I have a feeling that most will be returned to their old times next year.

pranavganesh · Dec 30th, 2006, 14:19

Sabby ypu are missing the whole point....Indian trains are one of the most perfect way of seeing India....it is not only about seeing the monuments...it about the reaching the destination also..

And no one can beat Indian Railways at that....
Besides ...Indian Railways are one of the cheapest in the world... and hardly elitist.

Enjoy them for that....you can find follies with the best of the best in the world... but thats not the point...

For quicker and cleaner travel...try low cost airlines....believe me for long distances they are actually cheaper than even 3AC...

Regards

cyberhippie · Dec 30th, 2006, 16:26

If you just want a form of getting from A to B quickly then I imagine the train must be a pain in the butt. As tourists we have all the time in the world to soak up the atmosphere on an Indian train. People who just want to get home or to a appointment must feel more than a little let down by the slowness of the trains!!

sabby80 · Dec 30th, 2006, 16:42

quite right cyberhippie - not everyone is travelling to see monuments & places - so when one has to sit in a train for such a long time it gets on the nerves at times - more so during the summers when the weather is out to kill! And its just a myth that low cost fares are cheaper than 3 Ac fares! you can't always book days in advance & if you dont then you end up paying abt 3 - 4 times that of the 3AC fares.

I guess asking for cleanliness & decent food doesnt smack of elitism either!!

icetea · Dec 30th, 2006, 16:53

Well I'm surprised by the thread, I found Indian trains to be both clean and pretty fast (no complaints about the food either, it's after all not a mobile restaurant). And low-cost airlines like Deccan, if booked well in advance, can prove to be cheaper indeed, for long distances.

steven_ber · Dec 30th, 2006, 17:15

Better food and cleaner trains can be achieved without too much addition to the fares.

Higher speeds, would mean much higher costs, the Infrastructure improvements needed would add massive costs to the fares, and the faster the speeds the higher the additional costs.

For any significant improvements, a speed of about 200Kms an hour needs to be achieved for most stretches of track.

To get a train travelling at 200Kms through the Indian countryside, you'd need the following.

New engines.
New Carriages (carriages have speed restrictions).
New tracks. (All double tracks)
New land purchases to enable straighter tracks.
New signalling. (to include expensive safety measure to prevent collisions)
New tunnels and bridges.
Level crossings would need to be replaced with tunnels/bridges.
New improved training for staff.
Fenced in track for the entire route.

I'd guess that it may be cheaper, and certainly more convenient to build new, dedicated tracks.

A total change in government policy might be enough, but realistically Privatisation would be needed.

A price worth paying?

A very high speed track is being considered for the Mumbai - Ahmedabad route, this would be a new track built only for the high speed trains.

ranjan154 · Dec 30th, 2006, 17:34

As Steven pointed, it would cost a huge amount in putting the new infra-structure. The most important of all of them is auto-signalling system. I always wondered, why only the train which I board is very often stopped for crossing

. Its very painful to see Rajdhani passing by like bullet.

On the brighter side, we must be thankful to the millions of workers of Indian Railways who are facilitating the most number of travellers in the world each day i guess i am correct

Yes, definately the food and hygiene should be taken care, but again so will see people expecting govt to do everything. We should also come ahead.

cyberhippie · Dec 30th, 2006, 18:02

Timetabeling could be improved. The present system crashes often when one delayed train has a domino effect that leaves you in a lowly express or worse a passenger train, parked in some non descript siding for hours!!

Generally I enjoy the train system and given it's age and size it runs pretty well. Like I said though I'm just a tourist a regular passenger travelling for work or holidays would see it differently!!

vsp27759 · Dec 30th, 2006, 18:04

Dear Steven Ber,

Would it be possible for you to change the Photo below your name? Just a request!!!!!

cyberhippie · Dec 30th, 2006, 18:07

That's laloo isn't it??

vsp27759 · Dec 30th, 2006, 18:11

Dear Mr.Sabby80,

Your location indicates NEW DELHI.

Are you from India (or) Abroad? Please clarify.

pranavganesh · Dec 30th, 2006, 18:31

Well I agree with Sabby and Cyberhippie in parts....yes we can demand cleanliness from Railways...

Yes the present standards are not really very good... but they are improving ...imagine the standard 10 years ago and you will find the difference...

So may be after some years...we may be able to see a much cleaner Indian Railways...

Regarding food.....well I have tasted some very good food while traveling on Indian Railways..

For example...
On the ever tasted Biryani at Daund Station, or Poori Sabzi at Moradabad station....

And I am yet to fall ill after having that...

So I still feel that Indian Railways are a wonderful way of seeing India..

cyberhippie · Dec 30th, 2006, 18:34

Yep India has finally arrived guys, now table conversation talks about how crap the train system is, Deja Vu anyone

Dec 30th, 2006, 00:58	#1
sabby80 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 139	Trains or bullock Carts? Ever wondered why the trains journeys are such a pain in India? Apart from the horribly dirty toilets & awful, unhygenic food just check out the average speed of two Super Fast!!! Trains in India Delhi - Mumbai Rajdhani Express ( This is the fastest long distance train in India) Total journey time : 16hrs Stoppages : 5 ( 31mins ) Actual travel time : 15.5 hrs Total Distance covered : 1384 Kms / 860 miles Average Speed = 89.2 km/hr = 55.5 mi/hr - Thats the fastest train(Apart from shatabdis which are short distance trains anyway) Now take any normal train - I'll pick Karnataka Express which runs between Delhi & our own silicon valley - Bangalore! Total journey time : 40.4 hrs Stoppages : 29 ( 113 mins) ha! ha ! Actual travel time : 39 hrs approx Distance : 2484Km / 1543 miles Average Speed : 63.69 Kmph = 39.55 Miles/hr

Dec 30th, 2006, 05:22	#2
steven_ber Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, England. Posts: 9,646	There's always aeroplanes for quicker journeys, I prefer the trains the was they are. Lalu has just speeded-up hundreds of trains, I have a feeling that most will be returned to their old times next year. __________________ . How to get helpful replies to your transport/Itinerary questions. Train information. RAC & Waitlists explained. Last edited by steven_ber : Dec 31st, 2006 at 04:12.

Dec 30th, 2006, 17:34	#9
ranjan154 Amateur Photographer Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Greater Noida (India) Posts: 853	As Steven pointed, it would cost a huge amount in putting the new infra-structure. The most important of all of them is auto-signalling system. I always wondered, why only the train which I board is very often stopped for crossing . Its very painful to see Rajdhani passing by like bullet. On the brighter side, we must be thankful to the millions of workers of Indian Railways who are facilitating the most number of travellers in the world each day i guess i am correct Yes, definately the food and hygiene should be taken care, but again so will see people expecting govt to do everything. We should also come ahead. __________________ Rakesh Ranjan -------------- http://www.flickr.com/photos/travinfoindia/

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Dec 30th, 2006, 14:19	#4
pranavganesh Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: India Posts: 142	Sabby ypu are missing the whole point....Indian trains are one of the most perfect way of seeing India....it is not only about seeing the monuments...it about the reaching the destination also.. And no one can beat Indian Railways at that.... Besides ...Indian Railways are one of the cheapest in the world... and hardly elitist. Enjoy them for that....you can find follies with the best of the best in the world... but thats not the point... For quicker and cleaner travel...try low cost airlines....believe me for long distances they are actually cheaper than even 3AC... Regards

Dec 30th, 2006, 16:26	#5
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,012	If you just want a form of getting from A to B quickly then I imagine the train must be a pain in the butt. As tourists we have all the time in the world to soak up the atmosphere on an Indian train. People who just want to get home or to a appointment must feel more than a little let down by the slowness of the trains!!

Dec 30th, 2006, 16:42	#6
sabby80 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 139	quite right cyberhippie - not everyone is travelling to see monuments & places - so when one has to sit in a train for such a long time it gets on the nerves at times - more so during the summers when the weather is out to kill! And its just a myth that low cost fares are cheaper than 3 Ac fares! you can't always book days in advance & if you dont then you end up paying abt 3 - 4 times that of the 3AC fares. I guess asking for cleanliness & decent food doesnt smack of elitism either!!

Dec 30th, 2006, 16:53	#7
icetea 'sort of hate India' club member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chennai, via Romania Posts: 917	Well I'm surprised by the thread, I found Indian trains to be both clean and pretty fast (no complaints about the food either, it's after all not a mobile restaurant). And low-cost airlines like Deccan, if booked well in advance, can prove to be cheaper indeed, for long distances.

Dec 30th, 2006, 17:15	#8
steven_ber Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, England. Posts: 9,646	Better food and cleaner trains can be achieved without too much addition to the fares. Higher speeds, would mean much higher costs, the Infrastructure improvements needed would add massive costs to the fares, and the faster the speeds the higher the additional costs. For any significant improvements, a speed of about 200Kms an hour needs to be achieved for most stretches of track. To get a train travelling at 200Kms through the Indian countryside, you'd need the following. New engines. New Carriages (carriages have speed restrictions). New tracks. (All double tracks) New land purchases to enable straighter tracks. New signalling. (to include expensive safety measure to prevent collisions) New tunnels and bridges. Level crossings would need to be replaced with tunnels/bridges. New improved training for staff. Fenced in track for the entire route. I'd guess that it may be cheaper, and certainly more convenient to build new, dedicated tracks. A total change in government policy might be enough, but realistically Privatisation would be needed. A price worth paying? A very high speed track is being considered for the Mumbai - Ahmedabad route, this would be a new track built only for the high speed trains.

Dec 30th, 2006, 18:02	#10
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,012	Timetabeling could be improved. The present system crashes often when one delayed train has a domino effect that leaves you in a lowly express or worse a passenger train, parked in some non descript siding for hours!! Generally I enjoy the train system and given it's age and size it runs pretty well. Like I said though I'm just a tourist a regular passenger travelling for work or holidays would see it differently!!

Dec 30th, 2006, 18:04	#11
vsp27759 V.SRINIVASA PRASAD Join Date: May 2005 Location: HYDERABAD Posts: 1,689	Dear Steven Ber, Would it be possible for you to change the Photo below your name? Just a request!!!!!

Dec 30th, 2006, 18:07	#12
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,012	That's laloo isn't it??

Dec 30th, 2006, 18:11	#13
vsp27759 V.SRINIVASA PRASAD Join Date: May 2005 Location: HYDERABAD Posts: 1,689	Dear Mr.Sabby80, Your location indicates NEW DELHI. Are you from India (or) Abroad? Please clarify.

Dec 30th, 2006, 18:31	#14
pranavganesh Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: India Posts: 142	Well I agree with Sabby and Cyberhippie in parts....yes we can demand cleanliness from Railways... Yes the present standards are not really very good... but they are improving ...imagine the standard 10 years ago and you will find the difference... So may be after some years...we may be able to see a much cleaner Indian Railways... Regarding food.....well I have tasted some very good food while traveling on Indian Railways.. For example... On the ever tasted Biryani at Daund Station, or Poori Sabzi at Moradabad station.... And I am yet to fall ill after having that... So I still feel that Indian Railways are a wonderful way of seeing India..

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Dec 30th, 2006, 18:34	#15
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,012	Yep India has finally arrived guys, now table conversation talks about how crap the train system is, Deja Vu anyone