The Great Circular Indian Railway Challenge

What about weather in terms of the route plan - should the trip be south first then north or vice versa ? We don't want "leaves on the line excuses" do we ?

Delhi itself can be pretty cold in Feb - there's this cold wind that can blow, as I recall - definitely not shorts and shirt-sleeve weather, for even hardy Englishmen and women - especially since the country and probably the trains aren't geared for cold weather, triple pane windows, central heating etc - You've seen how street-living people are huddled around tire-fires...

The further north we go, the colder it will be and the earlier in Feb we go the colder it will be. So, perhaps going South first, then North and leaving towards the end-of-Feb should be considered.

I'll be ok - I have my ski-jacket,thermal underwear etc.. but I am considering the amount of clothing I have to carry and also others who are from warmer year-round climates than my wife and I.

-skk

Steven, your comment is correct. Looking at the IR map, it's easy to understand that the whole northern section of the "real outer" circle is made by hundred of small metre gauge lines, and it's also easy to verify that most of these minor lines are not connected by long distance trains. Moreover, there could be no express train at all on these lines (only unreserved passenger trains), which would transform the journey in a real Odyssey!

So... what about to think to a "real outer circle" limited to broad gauge lines only? And maybe considering only lines covered by bookable express trains (only the ones available on www.erail.in, for example)? This would be a great planning exercise... a nightmare some someone, but a dream for the "Indian Rail trips planning addicted" (this is exactly the category of traveller which I belong to!).

YK, many thanks for your wonderful post, I'm still digesting most of it.


I guess there's no ideal time, though we should probably avoid holiday's. From what I gather about the north east one of our concerns would be the suspension of public transport services during holidays to stop people demonstrating.
I had considered pushing back to the easter holidays, it gives me more school holiday time which eases my domestic pressures and could coincide with red nose day here in the UK. But I suspect that other religions also are into their spring festivals so late February is probably best.
There are also photographic benefits to things being a bit chilly. If we start in Delhi then whichever way we go, clockwise or anticlockwise, we'll be looking at some chilly mornings.

I think we should try to agree on a baseline here. First thing is the duration of the trip b/c much of the rest will depend on that. For me, 2 weeks (14 days) is really the max. Anything more will get me executed at home, and rightly so. Much as I'd like to hang out with you guys on a train, my wife's also entitled to some quality time.

Once the duration is settled we should agree on a start date...and then take it from there.

Democracy is a wonderful thing but in order to set up something like this, some enlightened despots need to take decisions, else in 6 weeks this thread will be 60 screens long and we'll be getting nowhere on the what/when/how/where front.

I nominate steven_ber, mark_lester and gianni66 should they be interested.

2 weeks, absolute max, has been stated many times. I'd like to keep it to 12 days, at least on paper.
Mid feb 2011 as a start date seems to be without doubt.
Delhi as the new start point also seems more logical than mad Mumbai, it certainly makes things better for you who as a firm candidate was a factor.

As for the details of the route, I'm basically just doing what steven tells me to do, whether he makes it or not. He's a bit maxed out atm but I am expecting him to pile in with some definitive plans before long.
It's great to have input and ideas about the route, I dont want to discourage that as I'm hoping we get splinter groups doing their own thing but synching up with us.

Thanks a lot Dilli, but I don't deserve to be on the podium together with these train gurus! And also I am not at all sure to be able to join the group on the train at the kick-off...

I will surely continue to provide my ideas and contribution to the plan, but I would leave the final decisions to the original promoter of the project.

Is it the last word? Delhi Start/End point?

If so, we can have two possibilities to draw an itinerary:

- to have a complete circle, there should be an access point on the border where arrive from Delhi and from where to return to Delhi, at completion of the trip;

- or just to have Delhi as the beginning and the end of the circle, even if it is not on the outer line (in this case a part of the northern section would be cutted).

I prefer the first option (I cannot give up the idea of a "perfect" circle around the real borders...), but the time constraint of two weeks is also important.

I will try to plan an itinerary (clockwise, don't ask me why...) with Delhi as inner start/end point, lasting two weeks, passing through the outer borders (considering only broad gauge lines), and avoiding unreserved passenger trains.

Nope, as somebody once said, "indecision is final".
There were 3 motives for changing to Delhi
1. trains serving Moradabad suck, at least coming down from jammu. This is a cunning way to make Mordabad in effect the end point, all we have to do is get back to Delhi after completing the circle to Moradabad. But it only works if we go clockwise and get a Rajdhani east to kick off from NDLS.
2. DC, our only realistic prospective full circle candidate on the ground right now, is a Delhi-ite.
3. Mumbai, based on my observations on a biz trip about 6 years ago, has got completely out of control. Delhi by comparison is quite sane. It may prove less chaotic, and expensive, meeting up in Delhi than in Mumbai.

My target charity have a major operation in Delhi even though their Indian HQ is in Mumbai, and I still have contacts in Delhi even though I've more in Mumbai.

I'm just waiting for Steven to agree to this as part of the reasoning implies we do it clockwise.

Hello Lester, It seems you got here into the right place Murli CBE... if you are passing thru this station let me know, might look you all up at the station, and may be some fresh home food, NO booze unfortunately. Just left booze after too many years...

OK, so I start with this:

1. Delhi 17:15 (Day 1) - Raxaul JN 16:40 (Day 2)

2. Raxaul 10:00 (Day 3) - Barauni JN 17:35 (Day 3)

3. Barauni JN 21:53 (Day 3) - Guwahati 15:40 (Day 4)

4. Guwahati 22:30 (Day 4) - Ledo 12:05 (Day 5)

The only constraint of the above is that trai 3 runs Friday only.

It goes directly to New Tinsukia JN however, but it arrives at 3:15, and it makes this section alittle bit too long.

And we are in Ledo now...

(TO BE CONTINUED)

Hello Murli!,
Yes, I found it, this is obviously the place. I take it you are in Coimbatore, alas we wont be able to take advantage of your wonderful offer , we're trying to keep to the edges. But thanks for the thought.

There is a train on Friday called the MourDwaj express which does the Sitapur route and avoids Lucknow thereby saving a lot of trouble and heads straight to Gorakhpur on Friday from where you have a ready connection to the Avadh Aassam or the DBRT Raj all the way to GHY. This is a fairly reliable weekly. It is a puny little train and not many regulars know of it and I bet it will not be crowded. It is hauled by a single Gonda Shed WDM all the way. The branch line it takes is very special, it avoids lucknow a major filling point and therefore saves so much trouble. This could solve your moradabad problem, avoid crowds, have a farily punctual run, It is a NR rake and that means is not contingent upon any other train and it should take you barring the odd hour's delay. You need not get down anywhere other than Chapra where the rajdhani awaits you[you have beaten the rajdhani also by taking a short cut in a manner to speak]. The rakes are stabled there and I am reasonably sure that it will be clean and you can ask the SM to tell the cleaners to have another go at it.
It does most of the route which Gianni66 was mentioning. If you headed to Raxaul, you might have to depend on the Sadbavna family,to get you out of that corner[not many trains in that part of the world] a train with a terrible reputation
2492 MAUR DHAWAJ EXP 22/10/2009 JAMMU TAWI FRI


SNo Stn Code Stn Name Route No. Arrival Time Dep. Time Distance Day Remark
1 JAT JAMMU TAWI 1 Source 20:15 0 1
2 CHKB CHAKKI BANK 1 21:50 21:55 100 1
3 JRC JALANDHAR CANT 1 23:35 23:40 213 1
4 LDH LUDHIANA JN 1 00:39 00:49 265 2
5 UMB AMBALA CANT JN 1 02:20 02:25 378 2
6 SRE SAHARANPUR 1 03:50 04:00 460 2
7 LRJ LAKSAR JN 1 04:45 04:47 513 2
8 MB MORADABAD 1 06:40 06:50 652 2
9 BE BAREILLY 1 08:10 08:15 743 2
10 SPN SHAHJEHANPUR 1 09:25 09:30 813 2
11 SCC SITAPUR CANT 1 11:30 11:35 904 2
12 GD GONDA JN 1 14:30 14:35 1063 2
13 GKP GORAKHPUR JN 1 18:05 18:20 1217 2
14 SV SIWAN JN 1 20:15 20:20 1336 2
15 CPR CHHAPRA 1 21:50 22:00 139
Change to Avadh Assam or the Dibrugarh Rajdhani.
Can you time your departure from Jammu such as to sync with this weekly?

What are your thoughts of doing a bit of the central part of India. If you do manange to take the GHY-JAJ express you can insure yourself against delays and most importantly spit your ride to shorter distances[rather than relying on an end to end train like the ghy-sbc which is not always on time]/ It also may be noted that ready connections to the south are available from the GHY-JAJ Express from assansol and rampurhat where a train to Bangalore or Vellore and Cape readily awaits you.

If you do manage to take the GHY-JAJ express[which again saves you so much bother] and savour the magic of the doars then change at Assansol to the Howrah Ranchi till Muri and then at Muri change to the Ranchi Howrah overnighter and allight at Jamshedpur for the night's halt or continue to Khargpur and take the Falaknuma to Vijayawada. Or conitinue by the 1448 a Very good train clean and rarely late[barring the occasional distrubance] and join at ITARSI; to the Kerala express and [if you intend to allight at Nagpur to catch the faster train the Rajdhani to Madras] or the Gorakhpur Bangalore express to Bangalore[you are missing Bangalore Mark?]. Anyway lookforward to seeing how it shapes, will be happy if some of my suggestions are factored in, I am away to yeovil this weekend on a class 153 from Brummie and Gloucester ,weymouth and beyond.

5 days to Ledo!!!. Dude, you've got barely more than a week now to get via the cape, dwarka and jammu and back to delhi.
just incase anyone hasnt got it by now, the overriding requirement is IT TAKES TWO WEEKS OR LESS.
Now it's been proven time and again already that it is indeed possible to cover each of the 4 extremities in that time, so we're just looking for the most circular route, that isnt doomed to failure, that we can do.
One section that Steven is keen to do, and I think would be a good crowd pleaser, is the Arunachal line, so you have to stir that in. But it looks like going all the way down to Mukeong Selek will be too costly in time, so we'll probably abandon ship at Dhemaji if we cant org a special boat or something. Or catch it going up form there, though I think it would be safer to come from the north bank to Dibrugarh if we cant establish contact with a guaranteed ride on the north side back to the railway.

YK, we know there is an entire sub-continent of fascinating and beautiful railways that this, and any journey, cannot hope to cover.
We are looking for the best circular route that covers the 4 corners and makes a decent attempt at keeping to the sides. that last requirement is very loose. As has been pointed out, if we were to attempt to actually traverse the perimeter proper it would take in the region of 2 months or more, flat out traveling (except where you were obliged to wait almost a whole day for the next train).
If anyone wants to do something else, then while we are unlikely to make any changes to the core route or it's scheduling, it would still be really cool if you were to synch up with the gang on their great circle.

I am just giving you ALL the possibilities within the time constraint and familierising you with the network. It is more out of a labour of love. I had already offered my views on how to cover the perimeter.

It is upto you. I am giving some trains that you can safely rely upon and some you could best avoid. Trains like the Mour Dwaj, the Jha Jha GHY, the 1448, the 7210 are the unsung heroes of the network and usually do their job quietly and join you to onward journeys.The GHYSBC is a terrible train a filthy moving dustbin and so are the other southern GHY-South trains barring the GHY=ERS and the GHY=Puri. It is not nice to hang around in a station for hours. I leave it there. It is to get the best out of one's time and trying to take reliable, clean and less crowded trains. Alas I am an armchair traveller and bank on the experience of my past labours. I am too busy writing a thesis for a PhD and working on wittgenstein and supply chain management in the auto industry! Most of my travels never crossed a week or 10 days[it's always been breathless because there is work to comeback to] and I have done every single section througly that is being talked about. At least when it comes to the UK and India , I think I know the route and its actors quite well! More than that would be an anomie and suicidal for the career!