Quotas for different stations

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#1 May 3rd, 2007, 07:40
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#1
Is there any way to find quotas for different stations for any train? As per my unscientific guess, quotas also depend on distance restrictions. My question comes from this as an example:

Mumbai to Delhi Via August Kranti Raj Express is WL for May-22.

But, if I break my journey in 2 segments, one from Mumbai to Valsad, and one from Valsad to Delhi, I can get confirmed tickets for May-22. Of course, as you are buying 2 tickets, you will most likely have to change your seats (and coach) in Valsad, but if someone is willing to leave with that, confirmed can be had. Anybody see any flaws in this? That is where my actual question comes, if there is a way to find exact quotas (with distance restrictions), breaking a big journey into small pieces can be done quite easily. Thoughts??
#2 May 3rd, 2007, 11:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcgrath12 View Post Is there any way to find quotas for different stations for any train? As per my unscientific guess, quotas also depend on distance restrictions. My question comes from this as an example:

Mumbai to Delhi Via August Kranti Raj Express is WL for May-22.

But, if I break my journey in 2 segments, one from Mumbai to Valsad, and one from Valsad to Delhi, I can get confirmed tickets for May-22. Of course, as you are buying 2 tickets, you will most likely have to change your seats (and coach) in Valsad, but if someone is willing to leave with that, confirmed can be had. Anybody see any flaws in this? That is where my actual question comes, if there is a way to find exact quotas (with distance restrictions), breaking a big journey into small pieces can be done quite easily. Thoughts??
3 searches on the IR website tells me you're using 2A (unless 3A has become waitlisted since your post).

There is also 1 berth left available from Vapi, as well as the 2 berths available from Valsad.

On normal trains, the Valsad quota berths would be empty from Mumbai Central till Valsad, this would allow you to board the train at Mumbai Central with a Valsad quota berth and take your seat (and pay the difference).

But this train confuses the hell out of me, to have berths available for the Mumbai Central-Valsad section on a Delhi bound Rajdhani just makes no sense to me, unless Indian Railways have improved the booking situation for this train (above most others) to allow for booking the same seat on different sectors (by 2 different people), this would almost allow part of this Rajdhani to be used like a commuter train, especially when you consider that the same thing can be done on the Mumbai bound Rajdhani that arrives in the morning.

So I hope others will have experience of this train and be able to advise you.

Personally, I'd buy the Vapi quota berth, then board at Mumbai Central and see what happens (or go to the train the day before and ask the TTE what is likely to happen), but the Rajdhani's are strict, no waitlisted passengers are allowed to board and you'd run the risk of this being kicked off the train.

Regarding finding station quotas.....

I generally use the following page to search for trains....

http://www.indianrail.gov.in/inet_srcdest_names.html

I just change the Source and Destination Station names to find quotas between certain stations.
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Last edited by steven_ber; May 3rd, 2007 at 18:48..
#3 May 3rd, 2007, 11:40
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When do you arrive in India?

The August Kranti Raj has 2 berths available in 2A and 6 berths in 3A from Mumbai for the 22nd using the Foreign Tourist quota, but these can't be booked on the net.

The other Rajdhani departs an hour earlier and has 6 berths (2A) and 10 berths (3A) from Mumbai on the same day using the FTQ.

Both Rajdhanis have 36 berths (2A) and 112 berths (3A) available from Mumbai Central for the Tatkal (last minute) quota for the 22nd, but these berths are likely to be snapped up quickly when they bookings open for them, so you'd need to be on-line, ready to book on the 16th May at 08:00 Indian time to have any chance.
#4 May 3rd, 2007, 19:05
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Steven, I am actually thinking of going sometime in August. And I was thinking of visiting Delhi/Agra, so was checking availability. I was checking 2A. You are right, IR has made this train into a commuter train (almost). I wanted to throw out this idea of breaking a trip into multiple parts, if end-to-end booking is not available for indiamike members. If IR wants to implement quotas for smaller stations (as it should), we can exploit that to our advantage.
#5 May 3rd, 2007, 19:22
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Are you thinking of taking the August Kranti Raj and getting off at Mathura (then going to Agra)?
#6 May 3rd, 2007, 19:28
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Originally Posted by smcgrath12 View Post I wanted to throw out this idea of breaking a trip into multiple parts, if end-to-end booking is not available for indiamike members.
It's often possible to play aroung the the quotas from different trains and get good results, but you need to know the train routes to be able to do this.

An example I found for another IM member who couldn't get any availability from Mumbai to Hubli, I found a Kolhapur bound train, and a southbound train from Kolhapur, the mainline junction for trains to/from Kolhapur it Miraj Jn, I found availability on both Kolhapur trains, a with a good connection time at Miraj.
#7 May 3rd, 2007, 19:48
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You also have to leave a pretty big arrival-departure window, to allow for the sometimes late arrival of trains. Using short distance mail and passenger trains this becomes more of an issue. The hours I've spent in sidings watching priority trains fly past is not insignificant!!
If you miss your connection, getting away on the same day could be really troublesome!
#8 May 3rd, 2007, 19:58
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Thats why the better way to piece together is to do in on the same train. Its interesting. I was just talking to a coworker about this. Its a good programming challenge.

Lets say, you want to go from A-->Z. The train stops at B,C,D,E,F,...Y

The challenge is to find a unique combination that can get you from A to Z using different combinations like A..H, H..S, S..Z, etc. (you get the idea). I really think that if IR published quotas (some stations share quotas) with distance restrictions, this can be done (though very difficult).
#9 May 3rd, 2007, 20:15
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Of course, the easy (and the most expensive) solution is to wait until Tatkal opens up, as Steven says, change your BP to where you actually want to board and get off where you really want to get off. Need to be ready to book at 8AM sharp when taktak opens up.
#10 May 3rd, 2007, 20:30
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I've also met agents who got me on the VIP quota don't even ask me how they did it though!

Tatkal is getting busy as well these days, the quota is small and spread along the entire route of journey so there's a lot of people trying to access the handful of seats!
In 2AC it's only 4 berths, 3AC 6 berths and only 10% of the sleeper accommodation. Not a lot at all!

For a easy itinerary booking way ahead is still the best option, or restrict yourself to short hops where train reservation isn't such a big issue! (just climb aboard with a general class ticket and upgrade to second class to escape the jam in general class)

I see what you saying smcgrath12 with using the the smaller quotas, It's a good idea and should work in limited cases but I'm afraid the ticket agents have the jump on you. They've been doing this for years, so you may find even small station quotas booked from afar, Like I said though it's a good thing to point out to people!
#11 May 3rd, 2007, 21:14
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#11
Quote:
Originally Posted by smcgrath12 View Post I really think that if IR published quotas (some stations share quotas) with distance restrictions, this can be done (though very difficult).
They do publish quotas in the regional timetables, but these are frightening to look at.

Towns not even on the trains route have a quota for the train.

A quick example.

Rajula (halfway between Diu and Palitana, Gujarat) has 2 Sleeper Class berths allocated for the Bhavnagar-Mumbai overnight train, the closest Rajula gets to the train is about 110kms.

Savarkundla (just north of Rajula), has 4 x SL and 2 x 3A berths on the same train, and has 2 berths reserved for the Ahmedabad-Haridwar mail, even though the place is about 260kms from Ahmedabad.

As Cyberhippie says, the agents will know how to take advantage of this.
#12 May 4th, 2007, 02:28
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#12
You are probably right. I checked, and the formula is 2^(n-2) for the number of unique ways to go from A to B, where there are "n" is the total number of halts between A and B (including A and B).

I wonder if you can parse the HTML spit out by the www.indianrail.gov.in website when checking availability. If you can programatically parse that, a computer program can be written to find availability checking all combinations.

Any volunteers?
#13 May 4th, 2007, 03:28
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#13
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Originally Posted by smcgrath12 View Post I wonder if you can parse the HTML spit out by the www.indianrail.gov.in website when checking availability. If you can programatically parse that, a computer program can be written to find availability checking all combinations.

Any volunteers?
I'm not sure how all that works, but it sounds great, I'd definitely be interested in anything like that.
#14 May 4th, 2007, 04:08
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The real problem is the performance of the IR website. Its slow and unreliable, to say the least. Eg, Rajdhani from Mumbai to Delhi stops at 5 stations. That will entail checking 32 combinations. That could get real slow. (Or take an extreme example of Himsagar Express, has like 70 stops, than can be close to 1 million trillion combinations!!, which is impossible) Though, the www.indianrail.gov.in is much better than www.irctc.co.in.
#15 May 4th, 2007, 04:13
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#15
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberhippie View Post I see what you saying smcgrath12 with using the the smaller quotas, It's a good idea and should work in limited cases but I'm afraid the ticket agents have the jump on you. They've been doing this for years, so you may find even small station quotas booked from afar, Like I said though it's a good thing to point out to people!
Of course, IR has all the info, but they will never release that in a format where it is searchable. If the common folks can start doing that, where does that leave the touts and agents?
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