Palace on wheels

Evany · May 20th, 2008, 09:08

Quote:

I'm a middle aged traveller with reasonable finances but I still think the pouring so much money into a train ride is obscene. I would rather see my money go to smaller hotel owners who are trying to make an honest living, rather than patronising people who are already infintely wealthier than their counterparts.

It seems that you don't know much about this train at all. It's run by the Rajasthan government and the people who work on the train are essentially civil servants. They are paid fairly and are given jobs all year round, even when the train is not running. To suggest that these people are not making an honest living and are playing servant to rich people, is what is obscene.

As I said previously, if you don't want to go on this type of a trip, and would prefer something more budget oriented, that's absolutely fine with me, In fact, I've travelled to India that way on more than one occassion, but to suggest that people who are interested in going on the Palace on Wheels are somehow engaging in a less than respectful or decent mode of travelling in India is entirely inappropriate. However, now that I see that you don't seem to know much about this trip, I can understand more of where you are coming from.

Quote:

Conspicuous consumption is more about ego than pleasure.

You know, this is perhaps the most insulting thing that's been said so far on this thread. The Palace on Wheels is is not the Ferrari of travel, it more like a sedan instead of a bicyle, but if it makes you feel particulary virtuous to skimp as much as possible on your travels, then do your thing. I prefer to find my virtue in more meaningful ways than making sure I spend as little money as I possibly can in a country that has a major economic interest in developing its tourism industry.

And camelgirl, I agree that there's a whole other India out there between $60 and $350 ($700) a night but you also have to figure in the cost of meals, travel between sights, guide services in each location and entry fees. My view is that when you factor all that in, the differences between the Palace on Wheels and other methods of seeing India are not as great as they first seem.

PeakXV · May 20th, 2008, 10:00

My only concern would be that that once they got your moolah and got you strapped into that majarajah-esque rolling contraption - they'd proceed to fleece you for a not-so-cold bottle of suds.

Another 'issue' on trains in India (regardless of the class, cost or quality of caterer) is always food and the handling/refridgeration process involved in getting it to your carriage - particuarly in hot weather.

..... Not that one eats too much or has the opportunity to do so on the 'normal trains' ...... but on the POW one might tend to throw more caution to the wind & taste a little bit of everything on the extended gourmet menu - you know, with the money you layed down to get on that posh iron horse, let your culinary hair down and load up on the meats, ice cream, cold cut/salads etc. - probably fine for the most part but there's gotta to be the occassional delhi-belly-seasoned dish lurking.

machadinha · May 20th, 2008, 17:54

Gee. Golly.

For my part, if any defense is needed, I think I mostly said I hear if you can afford it it's good. The rest was just some tongue-in-cheekness, sorry if it came across the wrong way. It's a welcome change from being accused of being too serious though

brishti · May 20th, 2008, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evany

.... it seems to me that folks who took this trip are being ridculed as having their heads somewhere in the days of the Raj.

nooo evany - mine was just a smarta$$ remark - not a jibe

heck - i'm looking forward to taking a ride in the deccan queen one day ...

i sincerely hope you write about your experiences on the POW - would help folks who're thinking of taking a ride on it.

:brishti

camelgirl · May 20th, 2008, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evany

It seems that you don't know much about this train at all. It's run by the Rajasthan government and the people who work on the train are essentially civil servants. They are paid fairly and are given jobs all year round, even when the train is not running. To suggest that these people are not making an honest living and are playing servant to rich people, is what is obscene.

And camelgirl, I agree that there's a whole other India out there between $60 and $350 ($700) a night but you also have to figure in the cost of meals, travel between sights, guide services in each location and entry fees. My view is that when you factor all that in, the differences between the Palace on Wheels and other methods of seeing India are not as great as they first seem.

I believe many of us know all about the POW. As I've said ad nauseum. In fact, it was MY IDEA that my father-in-law take it! I've got photos I took of it in 1986 when it stopped in Jaisalmer, in all it's original glory. I was in the steam engine compartment (no longer in use) & have photos of them feeding the firebox.

No one is suggesting that the employees are not making an honest living! Where do you come up with this stuff?

If anyone is making an honest living it's the people who work on these trains who ARE servants to rich people. (If you can afford this train you ARE rich by Indian standards, no matter how many billionares now reside in India. And I include myself, though I'm far from "rich" by western standards.)

We don't call them servants anymore though, we say they are in the hospitality industry.

Nothing obscene about it. You are the one making that leap and being insulting to them.

Again, we seem to disagree in the math department .

There is absolutely no way that when you factor in meals, hotels, transport, guides and admissions you come close to the daily cost FOR TWO PEOPLE on the POW. We long ago gave up our backpacks. We stay in very nice hotels, guest houses, heritage house, we eat wherever we choose, we hired an a/c car & driver for one week travel in Rajasthan in Nov. '06 . We spent a month in mostly Rajasthan. We even tried to have lunch at the Umaid Bahwan Palace Hotel in Jodhpur (the Maharaja still lives in part of it)--one serious luxury hotel. They would NOT let us eat in their COFFEE SHOP because we were not guests of the hotel. It was full-- of RICH tourists. I really couldn't believe it. We were even willing to pay an extra fee for not being guests (which they charge when it isn't full and they do let you in). Well, I used their luxurious public bathrooms before we left.

Anyway, we figure we averaged over the month, all expenses about $150 a day FOR TWO. Obviously, we don't stay at $300 a night hotels, but EVEN IF WE DID, it would still be 1/2 of what the cost of the POW FOR TWO PEOPLE.

Why are you so uncomfortable with the cost of this trip and try to keep justifying it. IT'S YOUR MONEY you can spend it however you want. No one is insulting you or anyone else. We are HAPPY

when anyone loves India and what it has to offer.

I don't give a rats ass if backpackers think I'm spending too much (probably because I used to be one

). IM isn't the "budget police". There is room for every kind of traveler here.

machadinha · May 21st, 2008, 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelgirl

No one is suggesting that the employees are not making an honest living! Where do you come up with this stuff?

I think it was I who made some flippant remark about the attendants getting folklorically dressed up for you, or at least from pics I've seen. If anything, that was hardly a judgement on those attendants, of course.

Whatever, I hope OP and his/her mom have a swell trip, I'm sure she'll appreciate it.

capt_mahajan · May 21st, 2008, 01:16

On second thoughts, I would feel like a POW on the POW.

Even if I could afford it.

machadinha · May 21st, 2008, 01:17

camelgirl · May 21st, 2008, 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt_mahajan

On second thoughts, I would feel like a POW on the POW.

Even if I could afford it.

(I always wanted to use this smiley but never can find a reason. I still can't but I'm using it anyway.
I don't even know what it means but I think it's funny)

JuliaF · May 21st, 2008, 02:29

I've never seen that smily before Camelgirl - it is funny!

Maybe it means you are eating your words ...

chAos · May 21st, 2008, 02:45

Forgive the length and the quotes, folks; a matter of short attention spans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelgirl

no one is judging you. It's about making suggestions to the OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelgirl

No one is insulting you or anyone else. We are HAPPY

There is room for every kind of traveler here.

People most definitely are judging in this thread, though.
Camelgirl, do you not read your own posts? OK, I will remind you:

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelgirl

ASTOUNDING $22,800 or for a "better room " $34,400, for TWO people who don't know what to do with their money

Now that just showing off for your friends!! NOTHING on earth could make it worth that much unless perhaps the price includes someone to wipe your ass with 24 Kt gold toilet paper (ouch!) And you get to keep an entire Indian family to wait on your for the next two years

I don't think that you would appreciate advice like this. You cannot honestly say that this is respectful, balanced, or helpful. And instead of acknowledging this, you choose to argue.
---------

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelgirl

No one is suggesting that the employees are not making an honest living! Where do you come up with this stuff?

Ahh, you don't read other posts either; this is pretty obviously from:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoltan

I would rather see my money go to smaller hotel owners who are trying to make an honest living

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelgirl

I guess I also missed the people on the train being made fun of. That's absolutely ridiculous.

Machadinha already mentioned that this was due to his post; although, he appears to be saying that, on a public forum, people should know him well enough to know that, even though he's normally serious, this time he's being tongue-in-cheek, and for some reason that's alright. In this instance, the well-placed emoticon is not enough to wipe away all insinuation as the laughing icon at the end of the next sentence could very well be interpreted as making fun of the people the fake-Rajasthanis are duping.
-------
An aside:

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelgirl

We don't call them servants anymore though

As Evany was clarifying that the train is run by the government, the term 'civil servant' is not actually pejorative, but rather, is defined as someone employed in public service.
-------

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelgirl

I would, however, make suggestions, based on my own knowlege and experiences that I think they would find helpful in making that decision.

If you were really interested in helping them make a decision, then you would have been done after your second post. From there on out, you stopped being helpful.
-----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoltan

And I do respect your choice of going on the POW but I think a truly balanced series of comments are justified so tha the OP and her mother can make a decision for their holiday based on multiple inputs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoltan

an obscene amount to spend to ride on a train.

Zolton, you normally do provide helpful information, and thanks for that. However, in this thread: to say you won't pay that amount is perfectly reasonable, and to offer other alternatives as you did is helpful; to say it's obscene and in some way harms honest Indians is really not the epitome of 'balanced' at all.

Peak's post #28 also brings up the fact that there might be other circumstances to be considered that may not necessarily apply to you, and might thus factor into the cost for someone besides yourself.

Vandy, your post #27: more evidence that you're one of the nicest guys around. Your wife is lucky.

camelgirl · May 21st, 2008, 02:53

Uh Oh, the police have arrived.

Bad girl, bad unhelpful girl.

Oh, it's only the knickers-in-a-twist police....no worries

carry on....

Evany · May 21st, 2008, 02:59

Quote:

Why are you so uncomfortable with the cost of this trip and try to keep justifying it. IT'S YOUR MONEY you can spend it however you want. No one is insulting you or anyone else. We are HAPPY when anyone loves India and what it has to offer.

I'm not at all uncomfortable with the cost of my trip and I could not care less whether folks here approve of how I spend my money so I'm certainly not trying to justify it. You are mistaken in that regard. However, I am very irriated by a couple of posts here that are both supercilious and insulting and it is those posts to which I'm responding, not every post on the entire thread.

Camelgirl, I am not disputing that you can do a trip in India for $75 dollars a day, per person. I have done it several times for even less than that, in today's dollars. However, not everyone wants to travel that way or has the time to put into the planning. They are prepared to pay for a higher level of comfort, convenience and to have the planning done for them.

In my case, both of us had serious, long term illnesses and/or deaths in our families that sapped up our energy. The caregiving and funeral planning didn't give us the time or the inclination to plan so we did it the easy way and it was worth every penny to both of us. As I said earlier, I highly recommed it to anyone who doesn't have the time, inclincation or knowledge to plan a journey but who still wants to have the opportunity to see and experience India (again, in our cases)

The food is great, the accommodation is pleasant and there is a tremendous comfort in not having to pack and unpack or travel over India's sometimes dodgy and usually crowded roadways. You don't have to cope with train schedules or airports and plane travel. You get to see the highlights of Rajasthan with well-informed guides, meet interesting people, both those who travel and work on the train and its really easy on the nerves.

Uncle_Martin · May 21st, 2008, 04:36

Did any of the participants to this debate ever discuss the matter with one of the workers on the Palace on Wheels. I have discussed the matter with one ex-employee who echoed Zoltan's point of view and had some pertinent and pithy comments to make about the 'typical' patrons, as well as some interesting remarks to make about the opportunities for career advancement and experience of the 'hospitality industry' gained by those working on the train.

Whilst he accepted that, given the way the world was, rich folk had a right to spend their money in the way they saw fit, he was less than enthusiastic about the nature of the society which tried to legitimise this power as a human right. He actually said that he felt that his current job as a hotel manager for another state tourism body was a much more honest way to earn his living. Significantly he added that he did not feel that his dignity was compromised in his new position.

snowcrab · May 21st, 2008, 05:15

Well Killerwhale on your question of "Is it worth it?", you have seven who think not, 50%, four sort of lukewarm, if you can afford it why not, and four enthusiastic yesses. Good spread.

May 20th, 2008, 10:00	#32
PeakXV Naan.tering Nabob Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Abode of Glooscap Posts: 4,196	My only concern would be that that once they got your moolah and got you strapped into that majarajah-esque rolling contraption - they'd proceed to fleece you for a not-so-cold bottle of suds. Another 'issue' on trains in India (regardless of the class, cost or quality of caterer) is always food and the handling/refridgeration process involved in getting it to your carriage - particuarly in hot weather. ..... Not that one eats too much or has the opportunity to do so on the 'normal trains' ...... but on the POW one might tend to throw more caution to the wind & taste a little bit of everything on the extended gourmet menu - you know, with the money you layed down to get on that posh iron horse, let your culinary hair down and load up on the meats, ice cream, cold cut/salads etc. - probably fine for the most part but there's gotta to be the occassional delhi-belly-seasoned dish lurking. __________________ We shall not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started ...and know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

May 20th, 2008, 17:54	#33
machadinha Not Your Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: yörp Posts: 10,577	Gee. Golly. For my part, if any defense is needed, I think I mostly said I hear if you can afford it it's good. The rest was just some tongue-in-cheekness, sorry if it came across the wrong way. It's a welcome change from being accused of being too serious though __________________ Reading tips, all picked up at IndiaMike : INDAX's A Comprehensive Guide To India / Dinoj Surendran's Desi Humor / ITHVC on Culture Shock & Travel Health / JetLag Travel Guides For the Undiscerning Traveller / India Travel Links

May 21st, 2008, 01:17	#38
machadinha Not Your Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: yörp Posts: 10,577	Lol

May 21st, 2008, 05:15	#45
snowcrab Maha Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alberta, Can Posts: 1,045	Well Killerwhale on your question of "Is it worth it?", you have seven who think not, 50%, four sort of lukewarm, if you can afford it why not, and four enthusiastic yesses. Good spread. __________________ http://indibliss.blogspot.com/

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

May 21st, 2008, 01:16	#37
capt_mahajan (in charge of navel affairs) Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 10,105	On second thoughts, I would feel like a POW on the POW. Even if I could afford it.

May 21st, 2008, 02:29	#40
JuliaF Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Co Cork, Ireland Posts: 75	I've never seen that smily before Camelgirl - it is funny! Maybe it means you are eating your words ...

May 21st, 2008, 02:53	#42
camelgirl 10 year Visa okee dokee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Swannanoa NC usa Posts: 1,022	Uh Oh, the police have arrived. Bad girl, bad unhelpful girl. Oh, it's only the knickers-in-a-twist police....no worries carry on....

May 21st, 2008, 04:36	#44
Uncle_Martin Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: W.MidsUK Posts: 98	Did any of the participants to this debate ever discuss the matter with one of the workers on the Palace on Wheels. I have discussed the matter with one ex-employee who echoed Zoltan's point of view and had some pertinent and pithy comments to make about the 'typical' patrons, as well as some interesting remarks to make about the opportunities for career advancement and experience of the 'hospitality industry' gained by those working on the train. Whilst he accepted that, given the way the world was, rich folk had a right to spend their money in the way they saw fit, he was less than enthusiastic about the nature of the society which tried to legitimise this power as a human right. He actually said that he felt that his current job as a hotel manager for another state tourism body was a much more honest way to earn his living. Significantly he added that he did not feel that his dignity was compromised in his new position.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
palace on wheels	che1966	India Expat Area	3	Apr 24th, 2006 07:27
palace on wheels	ducharme5	Indian Railways	6	Aug 31st, 2005 01:38
Rajasthan - palace on wheels	kit	Rajasthan	15	Oct 6th, 2004 06:33
Palace on Wheels	joliecoeur	Indian Railways	5	Sep 23rd, 2004 22:22
Palace on Wheels	Watson	Indian Railways	8	Sep 8th, 2003 19:41

User Name		Remember Me?
Password