Thin & Very Thin Coconut Milk ?

Khandoma

Namaste Friends,

I'm looking at a recipe for Payasam, a fruit dessert.

I'm told to make :
1 glass of pure coconut milk,
3 glasses of thin coconut milk,
5 glasses of very thin coconut milk.

I know how to make the milk, no problem. I have 2 questions.

1) Thin and very thin ???
Do you add pure (mineral) water to the obtained milk ?
Or mix less coconut extract with more coconut water?

And the ten-crore-rupee question : In What Proportions ?

2) Glasses ?
I'm tempted to use an ordinary kitchen glass, yelding approximately
12 cl = 4 fl.oz = 0.5 US Cup
Have I got this right ?

Thanks so much for your help !

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Nick-H

No idea: I cannot quote the recipe, but I never saw anyone preparing different measures of thickness of coconut milk, or being particularly fussed about the proportions.

There is no right consistency for payasam: eat it with a spoon or drink it from a glass, as you wish.

I guess its easy to thin down thick stuff than to thicken up thin stuff, though!

Khandoma

Thanks Nick !

I'm sure experienced cooks just go with coconut milk and water and years of experience to bring out the consistency they like. This recipe is fussier, but it's got very good feedback. And it's precise - if only I knew what they are talking about...

mazha

Thin and very thin are translations of what is known in Malayalam as "second milk" and "third milk", which are essentially the different stages of making milk from grated coconut. This is done by wringing grated coconut through a cheese cloth, you get the richest milk first ("first milk"). After that you have to add some hot water to get the milk out. If you add cold water, the milk will split into oil. The first wring with the hot water is "thin milk", the second is "very thin".

mazha

Actually, payasam with coconut milk needs some delicate handling. The coconut milk is a mix of coconut oil and coconut flesh. The milk you get from the first wring has more flesh content, and this is added first, because it melds into the payasam as it boils. The second and third wrings produce more oil-filled milk, and you are supposed to add this only towards the end, after all the boiling is done. If you boil after pouring the second/third milk, the oil will separate out, and float on the surface of the payasam, which takes away the taste.

mridula

Phew! Now I understand why I run away from cooking! The intricacies!

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Khandoma

Mazha, thank you so much ! Lots of helpful precisions here.
Now I understand the "thin" business.

Any suggestions about the "glass" thing perhaps ?

Haylo

So it seems that recipes which specify grades of coconut milk are recipes using only fresh coconut.

Is there a way of converting this to preserved coconut?

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mazha

Um, short answer is no. We usually make more milk, and keep adding the first milk and tasting until we get the right taste. The second milk is added to get the right consistency. The best strategy would be to go for a big glass, and make a stew or appam with the leftover coconut milk.

Also, if you are using ada (rice pasta) as the base, the payasam would be thicker, so you would need more milk. Same with rice as well. If you are using parippu (moong dal) or banana as the base, then the payasam will have less body, so you need to adjust for that. Ada makes the best payasam, you will get that readymade in most Kerala/Srilanka stores. Don't forget to fry and add small coconut pieces to the payasam!

Alternately, you could skip all this thick/thin business and go for a milk payasam: just boil down 2 litres of 2% milk to half (keep stirring until milk turns creamy) and add it to the cooked ada. Then add sugar and seasoning. This version is easier, and will give you a better sense of the process and taste. You can move to the coconut version once you get a hang of this.

mazha

You can make milk with dried grated coconut as well, by adding hot water. You will get the first/second/third versions here as well. But the taste is not that good, and the milk will be more oily.

Also, if you are in the West and buying dried coconut from a supermarket, read the label carefully. We recently bought a packet that said "unsweetened" in bold, and found out that everything made with it was sweet. Then we noticed that the label said "medium unsweetened", with medium in small print! What the heck is medium unsweetened? Sounds like negative profit to me!

Haylo

Thanks for the warning, I'll check labels carefully and watch out for that "unsweetened" sweet coconut!

EDITED TO ADD: I hope it wasn't in the UK, our trading standards would have a FIT if they saw that!

Nick-H

Mazha --- welcome the expert!

It's amazing how obvious things can be to someone who speaks the original language something has been translated from, whilst being a mystery to the rest of us.

Mazha also recognises that this is Malayalee payasam. This is a much nuttier affair than Tamil payasam, which is more vermicelli. I prefer the Tamil version.

mazha

I am not sure all Tamil payasam is vermicelli, I would think the coconut milk version exists in parts of Tamil Nadu where there are coconuts.

I think of Payasam as the south Indian version of Kheer. It is localised with all kinds of other additions. The Kerala version is extremely localised, using coconut milk instead of real milk, jaggery instead of sugar, and bases other than rice (moong dal, banana, jackfruit etc.).

If you like vermicelli, you should try the pal-ada sometime!

Khandoma

Mazha, my saviour ! Big thanks for the fabulous information.
I've taken down your recipe for cow-milk payasam. Still, I'm bold and proud and preparing to try my luck at the coconut thing today.

I had planned on using jackfruit, as my Keralese recipe states. What you're saying, and it makes a lot of sense to me, is I'm going to end up with something that'll be more like jam than paste. So I should start with a base of ada as you suggest, or maybe parippu which is easy to come by in my area. When I know what I'm doing, I'll move to a more liquid version.

The recipe I had said nothing about frying coconut pieces into the payasam. Of course it must be scrumptious ! Will try.

Okay, so now I'm about to turn my kitchen into a coconut-bombing-aftermath scene. Will post back to say I survived. Wish me luck !

mazha

Good luck!

One little point: I said add "hot" water to the grated coconut to get second and third milk, what I meant was "warm" water. This may not be needed if you are using fresh coconut, but better to be on the safe side.