the copy cat culture

soulfood

Good. Watch it!

So what happened to your girl?

Nick-H

I said, "You know I was joking about living in India: I'm not joking anymore..."

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Theon

Nick, Why does Indian film have to be a portrayal of reality? And make sure you take some time out to listen to A.R. Rahman's later stuff!

And could someone please direct me to some Indian rip-offs of Western music? I want to know why there is the assumption that Indian film music borrows heavily from Western music.

Nick-H

Shouldn't acting be at least half-decent acting? For me it should.
I have done

In style it borrows entirely from Western Pop. Add depressingly repetitive (the same in dozens of songs) Bhangra beat: bingo! Bollywood song! Some of the stuff based on Indian folk, or even the older more classical songs are not so bad.

As to ripping off actual songs, well I can remember recognizing lots of snippets as I sat in my G's car, but I didn't make a list!

crvlvr

Studios make movies to make money. So they have to target the widest possible audience. In the India 60-70% of the population live in villages. So guess who the Bollywood movies are made for? Nope, not you and me… also, as much as we may hate the song scenes, it is demanded by the Indian distributors – who agree to finance the movie only after seeing a few song scenes, which are shot first and then worked into the movie later!

In some ways, Bollywood movies are no different from Hollywood blockbusters. You think Indian acting is bad? I don’t see any oscar worthy performances from some of the leading Hollywood starts ( Ben Affleck or Jennifer Lopez) either, but their movies sell tickets (except Gigli) . Given that the most expensive Bollywood flick cost $10M and the average cost of Hollywood flick costs $30-40M, (and blockbusters $150M) its only natural the quality of the Bollywood movies suck when compared to Hollywood. Just the fact that a third world country is making any movies that are watched the world over should be recognized.

Popular art weather music or movies will seem repetitive as they target the most common denominator in the audience. Before making general statements, one could explore what the rest of the art community of any country has to offer. Bhangra music is folk music performed by the farmers of Punjab and is simplistic. Indian classical music on the other hand is so overly complex that most people don’t get it. (listen to any accomplished tabla player tease the simplistic 1 –2 western beat with his improvisations)

If you are tired of the bollywood BS, – watch an Indian art movie. It may be slow and dull, but you won’t see any “over acting” or songs. Satyajit Ray has been revered by movie makers all over the world. In 1992 he received a lifetime achievement award from Hollywood – an outstanding achievement as his movie were never really commercially released in the US. Even today, a lot of south indian movies, especially Malayalam movies, are not your typical bollywood flair.

I have to admit, after swearing off bollywood movies for years (the same plot, stupid jokes, and silly songs) I am pleasantly surprised that some of the newer movies are actually good. I feel that’s because the newer movies are being targeted at the Indian communities living in the west (who pay $8 for a ticket compare to $0.75 In India). Want to see something different? Try Bahgban for starters.

sadhuji

i) the song 'but you love me daddy...' in a film *ing aamir khan and monisha koirala
ii) the superhit theme music of 'come september' in a film of madhuri dixit
iii) the film 'sound of music' reborn in different parts of india as 'parichay' (hindi) , 'jai jayanti' (bengali) etc..

soulfood

LOL. No wonder she ditched you.

Sorry.

Theon

sadhuji, I recognize there is copying in Indian film music, but don't you think you over-generalize the situation? If something like 20% of the songs were copies, I'd agree with you. But I think the amount of copying is less than 5%.

Nick, I think you over-generalize also when you say Indian film music borrows it's style entirely from Western pop. Also, I simply haven't heard the same bhangra beat in dozens of songs (I hear the same drum beats in many songs, but bhangra?).

As for the issue of acting, what is good acting? I think most Indian films are in a different genre than most Western films, and thus it is reflected in the style of acting.

By the way, I'd be the first to say there are many problems with Indian films, but there are positive aspects that I love.

Sorry to prolong this debate people...I feel like I should change my nickname to "Defender of the Indian Film Faith"...

Nick-H

crvlvr (whose name sounds so like a Unix command ), yes I have seen some of Satyajit Ray's films, and been variously charmed, fascinated and bored by them. I may well end up owning some DVDs of his films one day...

I love, by the way, the Goodness Gracious Me parody of interviews with him

I guess that I have to admit that I'm not much of a cinema person anyway, but I don't think I'll ever come to like the Bollywood stuff or it 's Southern equivalents.

My criticism of the music may well be inaccurate, but most of what I've heard I just don't like.

I don't know if it is true of the movies, but has anyone noticed the amount of violence, especially domestic violence in Tamil soaps? I guess that it just reflects a different culture that hasn't come to regard domestic violence as unacceptable yet. It is not so long since British police refused to attend 'domestics' as they didn't consider it any of their business. Anyone else on this?

soulfood

I usually have trouble watching anything South Indian on TV. But then, that's true of Hindi soaps as well.

I haven't seen any south Indian films either except perhaps one or two dubbed ones. I remember Anjali from ages ago. Terrorist more recently.

rhytha

"Domestic violence" in tamil Soaps?

Now which soap has any or extra amount of "domestic violence" in Tamil, i watch few and have never come across any, apart from the ocassional slap from female to male for some kinda of molestation(or whatever!!)

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Nick-H

Can't quote names... I can only say that he last few times I have been at my friend's house and they have had the TV on in the late afternoon and early evening there seems to be a loot of violence. Maybe I'm taking too small a sample, maybe others don't coinsider a slap on the head to be violence

Digital Drifter

That's true, there's a lot of it. The thing is, I think it's so ingrained with violence in films that it's taken for granted. Imagine being asked "Do you hit your wife?" from another Indian brought up here(UK) but who's been exposed to south indian movies? The teen who asked me was dead serious who quite couldn't make out why an argument(in the movie) has to lead to a slap/puch whatever on a female.

Nick-H, good point and thanks for raising it; hopefully, people realise it for what it is.

beach

I don't know if any of the Bollywood movies have to copy from somewhere. Practically the stories are all the same (at least for the past 1 & half decade). The story can be send through a 4 sentance SMS.

Then there is this beauty of cast. There is this visual pleasure of watching the Bollywood movie on a big screen. It's a treat. The colour, the moves, the sounds, the dances.....I'm paying money for that. Not for the blo*dy storyline . I don't care. Becouse I know it even before the movie is made

You can not copy (may be imitate to an extent) the perfornmance (of the artists,stars,photography,art, costumes,sound....).It's simply the skill and talent of the one who are performing all these.

Please dont compare oranges with apples. Bollywood is Bollywood.Hollywood is Hollywood.

I go the them for different experiences.

Aftet all copying is also an art

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Nick-H

I'm glad to hear that this guy was questioning; it is only questioning how things are that leads to change.

I've heard jokes, meant without any harm, about husbands and wives beating each other that, to me, are just not funny, because the basic premise is, to me, unacceptable.

In some ways TV/films reflect society as it is, but in some ways they also reinforce it. I hate to think of the youngsters watching wen hitting women on the TV and thinking, "that's OK behaviour, then..."

I'm not so squeamish that I can't watch a good fight in a film, but there is something about the way this domestic violence seems to be portrayed as normal that worries me.

I have to admit that I don't speak the language at all: I could be really getting the wrong end of the stick (Ha ha) here. But I am taking into account also the number of 'she earns the money, her husband spends it on drink and beats her' stories I've heard in India.