India's Skills Famine

tacita · Apr 11th, 2007, 01:11

Interesting piece with the above title in "The New Yorker" (4/16/07 issue), at p. 54.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2007/0...alk_surowiecki

It begins:

Quote:

The economic transformation of India is one of the great business stories of our time. As stifling government regulations have been lifted, entrepreneurship has flourished, and the country has become a high-powered center for information technology and pharmaceuticals. Indian companies like Infosys and Wipro are powerful global players, while Western firms like G.E. and I.B.M. now have major research facilities in India employing thousands. India’s seemingly endless flow of young, motivated engineers, scientists, and managers offering developed-world skills at developing-world wages is held to be putting American jobs at risk, and the country is frequently heralded as “the next economic superpower.”

But India has run into a surprising hitch on its way to superpower status: its inexhaustible supply of workers is becoming exhausted. Although India has one of the youngest workforces on the planet, the head of Infosys said recently that there was an “acute shortage of skilled manpower,” and a study by Hewitt Associates projects that this year salaries for skilled workers will rise fourteen and a half per cent, a sure sign that demand for skilled labor is outstripping supply.

If you're interested in reading the full article, go to the link above. I believe it's an open-access website.

PeakXV · Apr 11th, 2007, 01:42

It is hard for me to believe that there is any "shortage" of High Tech/ skilled workers in India. I do believe that there is a huge discrepancy in wages that has occurred recently due to the influx of foreign telemarketing companies with their commission based pay incentives.

Having watched the most excellent documentary: http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeyesunda...re_101206.html
....a few months ago and heard about the students who gave up Engineering studies & quit their High Tech jobs to "Telemarket" for dream wages - one might wonder if this is a growing trend that is contributing to recent "recruiter opining".

Merchant · Apr 11th, 2007, 01:54

As the article points out, there is not a shortage of hi-tech / skilled workers in general but a shortage of such workers acceptable to employers in the industry.

From the article:

Quote:

A current study led by Vivek Wadhwa, of Duke University, has found that if you define “engineer” by U.S. standards, India produces just a hundred and seventy thousand engineers a year, not four hundred thousand. Infosys says that, of 1.3 million applicants for jobs last year, it found only two per cent acceptable.

tacita · Apr 11th, 2007, 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeakXV

It is hard for me to believe that there is any "shortage" of High Tech/ skilled workers in India. I do believe that there is a huge discrepancy in wages that has occurred recently due to the influx of foreign telemarketing companies with their commission based pay incentives.

Having watched the most excellent documentary: http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeyesunda...re_101206.html
....a few months ago and heard about the students who gave up Engineering studies & quite their High Tech jobs to "Telemarket" for dream wages - one might wonder if this is a growing trend that is contributing to recent "recruiter opining".

this bears some relation to this thread, but i elaborated in the movie forum. today's times has a review of a documentary film i saw last year, before it's release, when it was part of the new directors/new films festival here in new york. it's called "john and jane toll-free," about call center workers and the reasons' for the industry's attraction of over-qualified workers, among other issues. the times review can be found at:

http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movie...ml?v_id=336094

soumya_mukherjee · Apr 11th, 2007, 02:06

My personal experience in Indian IT industry supports the New Yorker article. The basic reason of shortfall of skilled workers is that: an engineering degree is not enough to ensure skill on a particular technology/software/vertical.

The huge ERP market (SAP, Siebel, Oracle Applications) has so many opennings, yet, an engineering college fresher has no way to learn about those technologies from the college course. One needs experience before working in tough live projects. Hence the visus circle: no job no experience, and then no experience no job.

Next reason, a lot of engineering colleges are not very serious about quality of education. Donation quotas compound this problem. Ill-equipped colleges, ineligible students.

Lastly, increasing cases of fake degree/experience certificates.

All these explain why Infy has to turn down so many applications.

PeakXV · Apr 11th, 2007, 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merchant

As the article points out, there is not a shortage of hi-tech / skilled workers in general but a shortage of such workers acceptable to employers in the industry.

From the article:

Which is actually a very "grey" statement because the shortage may be due to a number of factors including wages, over-qualifications, and/or lack of willingness to relocate to Bangalore and other High Tech parks etc. - I am sure it is more a lack of acceptable skilled workers according to budget, locale, and experience criterions.

As far as the term Engineer is concerned, the term becomes more ambiguous/convoluted every day. Sex-workers call themselves Sex Engineers, Garbage men Sanitation Engineers - etc. - even I am confused on what constitutes the title these days.

.... <and this coming from a Professional Engineer for the last 20 years - I think!?

>

PeakXV · Apr 11th, 2007, 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by janice

this bears some relation to this thread, but i elaborated in the movie forum. today's times has a review of a documentary film i saw last year, before it's release, when it was part of the new directors/new films festival here in new york. it's called "john and jane toll-free," about call center workers and the reasons' for the industry's attraction of over-qualified workers, among other issues. the times review can be found at:

http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movie...ml?v_id=336094

Seems everybody is making a Call-center Doc these days.

With that current fad/craze's pay incentives in mind, I think any "drain" on the talent base has some relevancy to this thread.

Our company worked closely with Wipro back in the late to mid 90's and at that time their Chief Comms Engineer was imported from Pakistan. Successful High Tech Companies can/will be extremely frugal in their selection process .... proper education is important but not the only factor in the recruitment process.

PeakXV · Apr 11th, 2007, 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by soumya_mukherjee

Next reason, a lot of engineering colleges are not very serious about quality of education. Donation quotas compound this problem. Ill-equipped colleges, ineligible students.

If there is a problem due to deregulation of the education system in India - then that is a whole different issue and an added dilemna in separating the cream from the milk.

Typically in Canada, Colleges do not offer "engineering" degrees per se.... only Universities do that. Colleges are more likely to offer Engineering Diplomas or Engineering technician certificates.

PeakXV · Apr 11th, 2007, 04:38

The Boston.com article explains the crux of the apparent looming crisis a little clearer - I think it really is more about paying the least while attracting the best - in order to attract the biggest & most lucrative outsourcing contracts:

Quote:

Much of India's success rests on the fact that its legions of software programmers work for far less than those in the West -- often for one-fourth the salary. If industry can't find enough workers to keep wages low, the companies that look to India for things like software development will turn to competitors, from Poland to the Philippines, and the entire industry could stumble.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asi...orkers/?page=2

crvlvr · Apr 11th, 2007, 04:49

whatever shortfall exists is only temporary. the demand currently exceeds supply for qualified hi tech workers. Many qualified students cannot get into engineering colleges due to the lack of seats. The bottle neck is infrastrucure. Go to any engineering college and you will see new building being bulit at lightening pace. Plus new colleges (with questionable reputation) are spring up all over the place. But, it takes years for this new capacity to come on line. Until then, there will be a shortfall. College tuition has gone though the roof and is approcahing US levels. I know a medical college in India that charges $100K for 4.5 years of medical college tuition.

Unlike what the article states, no one is counting on the govt to address these university education bottlenecks.

ISN · Apr 11th, 2007, 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by soumya_mukherjee

Next reason, a lot of engineering colleges are not very serious about quality of education. Donation quotas compound this problem. Ill-equipped colleges, ineligible students.

This will change, the Indian government is in the process of allowing foreign universities to operate in India, once this happens all the local players will get their acts together and find ways to compete.

ISN · Apr 11th, 2007, 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by janice

But India has run into a surprising hitch on its way to superpower status: its inexhaustible supply of workers is becoming exhausted. Although India has one of the youngest workforces on the planet, the head of Infosys said recently that there was an “acute shortage of skilled manpower,”

The statement comes from Infosys, companies sometimes make statements like this to scare foreign competitors.

soumya_mukherjee · Apr 11th, 2007, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISN

This will change, the Indian government is in the process of allowing foreign universities to operate in India, once this happens all the local players will get their acts together and find ways to compete.

The problem of Indian institutions are not that easy to solve. Like skilled worker crunch in IT and other industries, educational institutions facing skilled faculty crunch. Main reason is easy to understand: extreme difference of salary of faculties and professionals. Any good tech student who can land up a good IT job will not join a college to teach IT, unless one is very inclined to educational career.

Even IITs and IIMs facing similar problems, especially after added students of OBC quota (which is still sub judice though). Foreign universities can offer better infrastructure and somewhat better salary, but a teaching job for a techie will never offer better growth prospect than a regular IT job.

just_an_old_boy · Apr 11th, 2007, 15:46

My 2 cents on this issue...

Random thoughts in no particular order...

1. Many companies like Infosys would like to have cooked food served to them. Soumya in some posts up has complained about lack of ERP skills. Sorry, universities teach Computer Sciences, Electronic, Electricals etc. They are not obliged to teach commercial packages. Why waste tax payers money to teach SAP if the student in question intends to go for DRDO or ISRO? The point is universities cannot use tax money to subsidize the industry's training needs. Company's should do it themselves.

2. Arrogant executives do not like to travel to far off govt. colleges in rural countryside for conducting campus interviews and they look down upon rural kids with poor English. The industry is denied of a good manpower catchment area in this respect.

3. The industry in most parts i.e. Infosys, Wipro and TCS etc. do not need engineers. The kind of software development they do can be easily done by science graduates. Get BSc grads with first division marks with maths as a subject and you'll have a good manpower base to work with.

4. Importing Western work culture does not work unless some custom specific tailoring is done. Buzz word like flat organization, flexible timings etc. looks good to youngsters, but as one goes up in seniority these working conditions are detested. We Indians demand organizational standing after sufficient years of experience and being from a family oriented culture a 9-5 timings ensure that we get home in time to catch up with others. There are many other problems like these, that results in high attrition due to workplace dissatisfaction.

5. Lastly an strange behavior from new entrants in Indian market like Google and MS. Had interview with MS. They grilled me for 5 rounds and were preparing for 6th round when I asked them to f**k off. I'm sure many senior guys like me would have done so. Google asked me appear for a online language skills test. Heck, I look after a big team and had been delivering projects on time, tool/language skills are not profile area as a project manager. So, same with Google...asked them to shove the offer letter up their own a$$ (yep, exact words on phone

).

Their is no skilled manpower shortage.

just_an_old_boy · Apr 11th, 2007, 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeakXV

If there is a problem due to deregulation of the education system in India - then that is a whole different issue and an added dilemna in separating the cream from the milk.

Typically in Canada, Colleges do not offer "engineering" degrees per se.... only Universities do that. Colleges are more likely to offer Engineering Diplomas or Engineering technician certificates.

Same in India. Degrees of all hue (not just engineering) are awarded only by universities.

Apr 11th, 2007, 01:42	#2
PeakXV Naan.tering Nabob Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Abode of Glooscap Posts: 4,201	It is hard for me to believe that there is any "shortage" of High Tech/ skilled workers in India. I do believe that there is a huge discrepancy in wages that has occurred recently due to the influx of foreign telemarketing companies with their commission based pay incentives. Having watched the most excellent documentary: http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeyesunda...re_101206.html ....a few months ago and heard about the students who gave up Engineering studies & quit their High Tech jobs to "Telemarket" for dream wages - one might wonder if this is a growing trend that is contributing to recent "recruiter opining". __________________ We shall not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started ...and know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

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Apr 11th, 2007, 02:06	#5
soumya_mukherjee Photography enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 62	My personal experience in Indian IT industry supports the New Yorker article. The basic reason of shortfall of skilled workers is that: an engineering degree is not enough to ensure skill on a particular technology/software/vertical. The huge ERP market (SAP, Siebel, Oracle Applications) has so many opennings, yet, an engineering college fresher has no way to learn about those technologies from the college course. One needs experience before working in tough live projects. Hence the visus circle: no job no experience, and then no experience no job. Next reason, a lot of engineering colleges are not very serious about quality of education. Donation quotas compound this problem. Ill-equipped colleges, ineligible students. Lastly, increasing cases of fake degree/experience certificates. All these explain why Infy has to turn down so many applications.

Apr 11th, 2007, 04:49	#10
crvlvr Guru Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hollywood Posts: 4,474	whatever shortfall exists is only temporary. the demand currently exceeds supply for qualified hi tech workers. Many qualified students cannot get into engineering colleges due to the lack of seats. The bottle neck is infrastrucure. Go to any engineering college and you will see new building being bulit at lightening pace. Plus new colleges (with questionable reputation) are spring up all over the place. But, it takes years for this new capacity to come on line. Until then, there will be a shortfall. College tuition has gone though the roof and is approcahing US levels. I know a medical college in India that charges $100K for 4.5 years of medical college tuition. Unlike what the article states, no one is counting on the govt to address these university education bottlenecks.

Apr 11th, 2007, 15:46	#14
just_an_old_boy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 215	My 2 cents on this issue... Random thoughts in no particular order... 1. Many companies like Infosys would like to have cooked food served to them. Soumya in some posts up has complained about lack of ERP skills. Sorry, universities teach Computer Sciences, Electronic, Electricals etc. They are not obliged to teach commercial packages. Why waste tax payers money to teach SAP if the student in question intends to go for DRDO or ISRO? The point is universities cannot use tax money to subsidize the industry's training needs. Company's should do it themselves. 2. Arrogant executives do not like to travel to far off govt. colleges in rural countryside for conducting campus interviews and they look down upon rural kids with poor English. The industry is denied of a good manpower catchment area in this respect. 3. The industry in most parts i.e. Infosys, Wipro and TCS etc. do not need engineers. The kind of software development they do can be easily done by science graduates. Get BSc grads with first division marks with maths as a subject and you'll have a good manpower base to work with. 4. Importing Western work culture does not work unless some custom specific tailoring is done. Buzz word like flat organization, flexible timings etc. looks good to youngsters, but as one goes up in seniority these working conditions are detested. We Indians demand organizational standing after sufficient years of experience and being from a family oriented culture a 9-5 timings ensure that we get home in time to catch up with others. There are many other problems like these, that results in high attrition due to workplace dissatisfaction. 5. Lastly an strange behavior from new entrants in Indian market like Google and MS. Had interview with MS. They grilled me for 5 rounds and were preparing for 6th round when I asked them to f**k off. I'm sure many senior guys like me would have done so. Google asked me appear for a online language skills test. Heck, I look after a big team and had been delivering projects on time, tool/language skills are not profile area as a project manager. So, same with Google...asked them to shove the offer letter up their own a$$ (yep, exact words on phone ). Their is no skilled manpower shortage.

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