Dalai Lama: next time, I'll be born in India

sirensongs · Aug 17th, 2006, 13:53

Monday August 7, 12:45 PM
The Dalai Lama is seriously thinking about his successor. The spiritual and temporal leader of Tibetan Buddhists says the candidate should ideally be from the Tibetan community in exile in India, though he is quick to add that the name should be acceptable to all Tibetans.
source: Indian Express

Nick-H · Aug 17th, 2006, 14:57

Didn't he say, some years back, that he was the last "hereditary" leader of the Tibetan people?

blackbird · Aug 17th, 2006, 15:13

No doubt the Chinese government will discover a rival Dalai Lama... maybe he could be the son of a Chinese politician in Beijing, that would be convenient.

Nick-H · Aug 17th, 2006, 15:21

Maybe that's why the DL said he would't be reincrnated again? (if I've got that right)

Wise chappie, the DL... ...

sirensongs · Aug 17th, 2006, 23:14

Blackbird: sure, why not, they already have a fake Panchen Lama and their own fake (or rival) Karmapa!

Nick: No, as I understand it he will reincarnate...but will not be born in occupied Tibet. There is also "talk" of having a different selection system. There's talk of lots of things. It's an interesting time to be alive....

Kiki · Aug 20th, 2006, 05:39

Last I heard he said that he may be the last of the Dalai Lamas and that if he did come back, he definitely would not be reborn in China. Obviously thinking of the Chinese "recognition" of the Panchen Lama. Since he is a real Bodhisattva, for sure he will come back in some form to continue to aid all sentient beings. But, it may not be in the guise of the DL.

ddevadatta · Aug 26th, 2006, 10:17

This kinda sheds light on the Political underpennings of reincarnation. Never saw it in that light. Needs further study how this view might be rooted in a historical political agenda. Can anybody shed light on the origins of this view from this perspective.

Kiki · Aug 26th, 2006, 11:24

I don't really understand the question. Are you aware of the story with the Chinese and the Panchen Lama?

blackbird · Aug 26th, 2006, 16:40

I don't understand ddevadatta's question either, but I think they are coming from the perspective that as reincarnation does not exist, there must be a political motive???

The fact is that the reincarnation of important lamas will inevitably be surrounded by politics, whether or not you believe that they are literally reincarnated. In the Tibetan system they wield great power, and people will surround them who want to benefit from that power. Besides, lamas fall out with one another anyway from time to time. For example, the Sharmapa, who is the most important rinpoche who champions the Sikkimese Karmapa (against the wishes of the vast majority who support the one who escaped from Tibet) has been at loggerheads with the Dalai Lama for many centuries and in a previous incarnation was banned from Tibet by him.

However, if you believe that the lamas are all boddhisatvas working for the good of the human race, you will accept that the politics and power struggles are part of this work, even though you do not understand it. I have to admit that when I hear of a lama attempting to overcome a monastery with a small army of mercenaries, that stretches my western mind's perspective to the limits.... but as for the Dalai Lama, you can be sure that his political manoevuring is a form of what they call "skillful means" to achieve what is best for his people, rather than just motivated by the cynical self-interest that we are used to in western and Indian politicians.

sirensongs · Aug 26th, 2006, 16:59

Lots has been written on the lama's reincarnation system, which I think was instituted in the 14th century or so. The system of DL was started by the Mongolians. The whole thing has always had heavy political connotations. That doesn't mean the spiritual aspect is not valid, IMHO.

See Asian Times: An encounter with the Fake One
In August 1989, eight months after the death of the 10th Panchen Lama, the Chinese government promulgated what has to be one of the most bizarre policies ever instituted by an atheistic, scientific-materialist communist government: a five-point set of regulations on the search, selection and recognition of a human reincarnation.

Interestingly, political intrigues have led the DL to escape Tibet twice before (in previous incarnations) - once to Mongolia, and once again to India.

Aug 17th, 2006, 13:53	#1
sirensongs Eeny meeny mango Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: All India Permit (somewhere between Delhi & Dharamsala) Posts: 1,213	Dalai Lama: next time, I'll be born in India Monday August 7, 12:45 PM The Dalai Lama is seriously thinking about his successor. The spiritual and temporal leader of Tibetan Buddhists says the candidate should ideally be from the Tibetan community in exile in India, though he is quick to add that the name should be acceptable to all Tibetans. source: Indian Express __________________ *"Why do people go to India to find themselves? India is where you go to lose* yourself."** Feringhee: The India Diaries

Aug 17th, 2006, 14:57	#2
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,692	Didn't he say, some years back, that he was the last "hereditary" leader of the Tibetan people? __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Aug 26th, 2006, 10:17	#7
ddevadatta Finger Licking Good Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 907	Live one life This kinda sheds light on the Political underpennings of reincarnation. Never saw it in that light. Needs further study how this view might be rooted in a historical political agenda. Can anybody shed light on the origins of this view from this perspective. __________________ Ayurvedic cure for an Indian headache

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Aug 17th, 2006, 15:13	#3
blackbird Jai Maa Tarini Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 391	No doubt the Chinese government will discover a rival Dalai Lama... maybe he could be the son of a Chinese politician in Beijing, that would be convenient.

Aug 17th, 2006, 15:21	#4
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,692	Maybe that's why the DL said he would't be reincrnated again? (if I've got that right) Wise chappie, the DL... ...

Aug 17th, 2006, 23:14	#5
sirensongs Eeny meeny mango Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: All India Permit (somewhere between Delhi & Dharamsala) Posts: 1,213	Blackbird: sure, why not, they already have a fake Panchen Lama and their own fake (or rival) Karmapa! Nick: No, as I understand it he will reincarnate...but will not be born in occupied Tibet. There is also "talk" of having a different selection system. There's talk of lots of things. It's an interesting time to be alive....

Aug 20th, 2006, 05:39	#6
Kiki Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 154	Last I heard he said that he may be the last of the Dalai Lamas and that if he did come back, he definitely would not be reborn in China. Obviously thinking of the Chinese "recognition" of the Panchen Lama. Since he is a real Bodhisattva, for sure he will come back in some form to continue to aid all sentient beings. But, it may not be in the guise of the DL.

Aug 26th, 2006, 11:24	#8
Kiki Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 154	I don't really understand the question. Are you aware of the story with the Chinese and the Panchen Lama?

Aug 26th, 2006, 16:40	#9
blackbird Jai Maa Tarini Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 391	I don't understand ddevadatta's question either, but I think they are coming from the perspective that as reincarnation does not exist, there must be a political motive??? The fact is that the reincarnation of important lamas will inevitably be surrounded by politics, whether or not you believe that they are literally reincarnated. In the Tibetan system they wield great power, and people will surround them who want to benefit from that power. Besides, lamas fall out with one another anyway from time to time. For example, the Sharmapa, who is the most important rinpoche who champions the Sikkimese Karmapa (against the wishes of the vast majority who support the one who escaped from Tibet) has been at loggerheads with the Dalai Lama for many centuries and in a previous incarnation was banned from Tibet by him. However, if you believe that the lamas are all boddhisatvas working for the good of the human race, you will accept that the politics and power struggles are part of this work, even though you do not understand it. I have to admit that when I hear of a lama attempting to overcome a monastery with a small army of mercenaries, that stretches my western mind's perspective to the limits.... but as for the Dalai Lama, you can be sure that his political manoevuring is a form of what they call "skillful means" to achieve what is best for his people, rather than just motivated by the cynical self-interest that we are used to in western and Indian politicians.

Aug 26th, 2006, 16:59	#10
sirensongs Eeny meeny mango Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: All India Permit (somewhere between Delhi & Dharamsala) Posts: 1,213	Lots has been written on the lama's reincarnation system, which I think was instituted in the 14th century or so. The system of DL was started by the Mongolians. The whole thing has always had heavy political connotations. That doesn't mean the spiritual aspect is not valid, IMHO. See Asian Times: An encounter with the Fake One In August 1989, eight months after the death of the 10th Panchen Lama, the Chinese government promulgated what has to be one of the most bizarre policies ever instituted by an atheistic, scientific-materialist communist government: a five-point set of regulations on the search, selection and recognition of a human reincarnation. Interestingly, political intrigues have led the DL to escape Tibet twice before (in previous incarnations) - once to Mongolia, and once again to India.

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