Airlines in trouble

goangoangone · Oct 15th, 2008, 20:13

Kingfisher and Jet Airways are looking for a 5000crore Government bail out. Jet laying off staff.

capt_mahajan · Oct 15th, 2008, 20:34

Yep.

850 staff including 200 engineers laid off. Flight attendents on roster apparently were not told anything but nobody came to pick them up for work.

Other news- Air India is supposed to get a 1000 crore bailout.

Jet/Kingfisher announced seat sharing and ground facility sharing too. Now want 5000 crores interest free loan.

Coming up next; bailout package for the panwallah down the road

nayan · Oct 15th, 2008, 21:04

It seems a total of 1900 will be laid off....

http://profit.ndtv.com/2008/10/15182...1900-jobs.html

alouise · Oct 15th, 2008, 22:19

This really is a sign of the global financial meltdown impacting on the real economies of nations worldwide, India included. I wish I had saved the relevant link I was reading on this topic so I could paste it here (can't find it again right now, but maybe later?). But I can recall some of the main points. Hard not to, they were so stunning. The world is in a real mess, the scale of which was last approached 1929-1932. However, the losses that sparked that Great depression are tame by comparison to the present scale of debt to GDP ratios in the US, Europe and my own country Australia. For example, US debt is now 290% of GDP or over twice as much as what sparked the 1929 stockmarket crash. US, European and Australian governments are overnight spending up big time (on credit, without the capital to back their bailout promises) simply in order to keep their national economies afloat and stave off the sort of business collapses presently threatening, for example, airlines in India. How big is this mess? Well, it's so serious that the US sub prime mortgage crisis has now faded from relevance, like, ancient history (I mean, that was 2007!) and ditto for bank collapses (I mean, eons ago, Jan-Sept. 2008) The real "fear and awe" dread of the moment is over the insurance fallout (re. credit default swaps or CDS) of these now 25 big bank collapses. The CDS fallout over the collapse of just one US bank, Lehman Bros, wiped out Iceland this week - this once sovereign nation is now hoping to become "owned" by the IMF next week so that workers can be paid and shops can still have food and other basic commodities on their shelves! The CDS products are part of speculative derivative markets that are presently worth more than ten times the GDP of the ENTIRE world. A mere 7% loss on this derivatives market stands to cancel out the world's GDP. The CDS losses from having to pay insurance concerning the bank collapses are expected to exceed this 7% figure. Naturally, at some point all of this fallout is going to impact on IMers' travel plans. Aussies will understand this one, having just lost over 30% currency value in one month. Fortunately Aussies have a fairly generous social security system and now a more socialist leaning government to support their citizens through recession. However, in India, where the gap between rich and poor is more extreme ( 825 million living on less than $2/day) even a slight economic downturn could have devastating socioeconomic consequences that westerners could not even begin to imagine. Problems with airlines pale by comparison.

shashank.aggarwal · Oct 15th, 2008, 22:35

I guess all the employees were non confirmed employees.

nayan · Oct 15th, 2008, 22:53

ya... thats what I read. The probationers have been pink slipped

capt_mahajan · Oct 16th, 2008, 09:58

Jet employees street protests in Mumbai.

Reports that another 1100 to be sacked.

Raj Thackeray, Maharashtra Navnirman Sena Chief (Political party or goons, depending on your point of view) threatens that no Jet flights will be allowed in/out of Mumbai unless the sacked folks are reinstated.

Quote:

Thackeray's representatives will meet the Jet Airways management on Thursday to discuss the issue.

The spokesman said if the airline did not absorb the retrenched employees, Thackeray would not allow Jet to operate in Mumbai or the rest of Maharashtra.

Quote:

The employees, who had been camping outside Thackeray's Shivaji Park residence since early Wednesday morning, alleged that the airline terminated their services without serving termination letters or compensation

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv...WEN20080068905

Welcome to the airline recession. Market share is not profitability, unless you sell early in this Ponzi scheme.

Hal · Oct 16th, 2008, 10:17

I have a flight on Jet on the 30th. Will there be anyone left to serve me the delicious food?

capt_mahajan · Oct 16th, 2008, 10:20

Jet and Kingfisher have a seat sharing arrangement now, amongst others.

You may find you are flying with either of them.

Hal · Oct 16th, 2008, 10:26

Thanks, Cap'n, What about international flights. Do they use other airlines flying into/out of Brussels from North America?

goangoangone · Oct 16th, 2008, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt_mahajan

Jet and Kingfisher have a seat sharing arrangement now, amongst others.

You may find you are flying with either of them.

Hate to say it......or neither of them?

Cardamom · Oct 16th, 2008, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by goangoangone

Hate to say it......or neither of them?

Ah yes, I 'll drink to that

Is Spice Jet safe??? I'm still waiting to book my flight from New Delhi to Chennai. Guess I'll give it some time.

-C

goangoangone · Oct 16th, 2008, 11:18

Unfortuneately, the problem is much deeper than the next bank, insurance company or airline going bust. This recession has been waiting to happen for a long time. Derivatives written on derivatives. Greedy people trying to squeeze another miniscule fraction of profit out of a new instrument. It all has to unwind and come home. A quick fix of propping up banks or pumping the system with Bush $$$ will not work. Everyone, not only the financial institutions, has been encouraged to borrow and live beyond their means. It's payback time.

Fan of India · Oct 16th, 2008, 11:41

The thing to ponder over - on the jet airways issue - is that all 850 people sacked were on probation. Considering that probation normally lasts a period of 6 months - what were Jet doing for the past half year??

The cues of market meltdown started about 10-12 months back (roughly Jan 08).

Seems that the predictions of the Jet management have gone horribly wrong OR were they too optimistic in a market turnaround???

Sad - but the guys who are at the receiving end are the employees - most of them consisting of freshers (i would presume).

nomad · Oct 16th, 2008, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by goangoangone

Unfortuneately, the problem is much deeper than the next bank, insurance company or airline going bust. This recession has been waiting to happen for a long time. Derivatives written on derivatives. Greedy people trying to squeeze another miniscule fraction of profit out of a new instrument. It all has to unwind and come home. A quick fix of propping up banks or pumping the system with Bush $$$ will not work. Everyone, not only the financial institutions, has been encouraged to borrow and live beyond their means. It's payback time.

you got it.

i wonder why no one questions when the stock prices keep rising for six month without any reason.
this chicken-out game has gone wrong for the airlines industry.

Oct 15th, 2008, 20:13	#1
goangoangone What happened? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Goa Posts: 1,953	Airlines in trouble Kingfisher and Jet Airways are looking for a 5000crore Government bail out. Jet laying off staff. __________________ GoanGoan......here

Oct 15th, 2008, 22:19	#4
alouise Maha Guru Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: sydney Posts: 821	A sign of these recent times This really is a sign of the global financial meltdown impacting on the real economies of nations worldwide, India included. I wish I had saved the relevant link I was reading on this topic so I could paste it here (can't find it again right now, but maybe later?). But I can recall some of the main points. Hard not to, they were so stunning. The world is in a real mess, the scale of which was last approached 1929-1932. However, the losses that sparked that Great depression are tame by comparison to the present scale of debt to GDP ratios in the US, Europe and my own country Australia. For example, US debt is now 290% of GDP or over twice as much as what sparked the 1929 stockmarket crash. US, European and Australian governments are overnight spending up big time (on credit, without the capital to back their bailout promises) simply in order to keep their national economies afloat and stave off the sort of business collapses presently threatening, for example, airlines in India. How big is this mess? Well, it's so serious that the US sub prime mortgage crisis has now faded from relevance, like, ancient history (I mean, that was 2007!) and ditto for bank collapses (I mean, eons ago, Jan-Sept. 2008) The real "fear and awe" dread of the moment is over the insurance fallout (re. credit default swaps or CDS) of these now 25 big bank collapses. The CDS fallout over the collapse of just one US bank, Lehman Bros, wiped out Iceland this week - this once sovereign nation is now hoping to become "owned" by the IMF next week so that workers can be paid and shops can still have food and other basic commodities on their shelves! The CDS products are part of speculative derivative markets that are presently worth more than ten times the GDP of the ENTIRE world. A mere 7% loss on this derivatives market stands to cancel out the world's GDP. The CDS losses from having to pay insurance concerning the bank collapses are expected to exceed this 7% figure. Naturally, at some point all of this fallout is going to impact on IMers' travel plans. Aussies will understand this one, having just lost over 30% currency value in one month. Fortunately Aussies have a fairly generous social security system and now a more socialist leaning government to support their citizens through recession. However, in India, where the gap between rich and poor is more extreme ( 825 million living on less than $2/day) even a slight economic downturn could have devastating socioeconomic consequences that westerners could not even begin to imagine. Problems with airlines pale by comparison. Last edited by alouise : Oct 15th, 2008 at 22:26. Reason: typo correction

Oct 15th, 2008, 22:35	#5
shashank.aggarwal The Fortunate One Join Date: May 2007 Location: Road Posts: 6,820	I guess all the employees were non confirmed employees. __________________ Spineless Travelogue - Around India

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Oct 15th, 2008, 20:34	#2
capt_mahajan Infidel Sufi Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: styx Posts: 13,605	Yep. 850 staff including 200 engineers laid off. Flight attendents on roster apparently were not told anything but nobody came to pick them up for work. Other news- Air India is supposed to get a 1000 crore bailout. Jet/Kingfisher announced seat sharing and ground facility sharing too. Now want 5000 crores interest free loan. Coming up next; bailout package for the panwallah down the road

Oct 15th, 2008, 21:04	#3
nayan Forum Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: hyderabad/tokyo Posts: 1,930	It seems a total of 1900 will be laid off.... http://profit.ndtv.com/2008/10/15182...1900-jobs.html

Oct 15th, 2008, 22:53	#6
nayan Forum Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: hyderabad/tokyo Posts: 1,930	ya... thats what I read. The probationers have been pink slipped

Oct 16th, 2008, 10:17	#8
Hal . . . _ _ _ . . . Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,302	I have a flight on Jet on the 30th. Will there be anyone left to serve me the delicious food?

Oct 16th, 2008, 10:20	#9
capt_mahajan Infidel Sufi Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: styx Posts: 13,605	Jet and Kingfisher have a seat sharing arrangement now, amongst others. You may find you are flying with either of them.

Oct 16th, 2008, 10:26	#10
Hal . . . _ _ _ . . . Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,302	Thanks, Cap'n, What about international flights. Do they use other airlines flying into/out of Brussels from North America?

Oct 16th, 2008, 11:18	#13
goangoangone What happened? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Goa Posts: 1,953	Unfortuneately, the problem is much deeper than the next bank, insurance company or airline going bust. This recession has been waiting to happen for a long time. Derivatives written on derivatives. Greedy people trying to squeeze another miniscule fraction of profit out of a new instrument. It all has to unwind and come home. A quick fix of propping up banks or pumping the system with Bush $$$ will not work. Everyone, not only the financial institutions, has been encouraged to borrow and live beyond their means. It's payback time.

Oct 16th, 2008, 11:41	#14
Fan of India Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 142	The thing to ponder over - on the jet airways issue - is that all 850 people sacked were on probation. Considering that probation normally lasts a period of 6 months - what were Jet doing for the past half year?? The cues of market meltdown started about 10-12 months back (roughly Jan 08). Seems that the predictions of the Jet management have gone horribly wrong OR were they too optimistic in a market turnaround??? Sad - but the guys who are at the receiving end are the employees - most of them consisting of freshers (i would presume).