Rajasthan and UP, 5 weeks in July and August.

Thanks Steven, that's good to hear!

In that case would you suggest visiting Varanasi and Agra at the end of our trip? I've tried to come up with a couple of different routes that seem to fit well with the trains (times and availability), but don't have a lot to base any sort of conclusions on. If anyone could critique them for me I'd really appreciate it...

Option 1. Delhi-Varanasi-Agra-Jaipur-Kota-Udaipur-(by bus to)Jodhpur-Jaisalmer-Bikaner-Shimla(Kalka)-Delhi.

Option 2. Delhi-Jaipur-Kota-Udaipur-(by bus to)Jodhpur-Jaisalmer-Bikaner-Shimla(Kalka)-Varanasi-Agra.

There are a few pros and cons to each of these, but the 'clockwise' direction seems to work from what I can gather with times and availability of trains. these are the places we'd really like to visit, and we're open to other suggestions (be they destinations, routes modes of transport etc.) Again, all help is much appreciated.

Josh

Why Kota (Bundi?) and why Shimla? (Maybe Rishikesh/Haridwar instead)

How about Amritsar (Golden Temple), though getting train availability may be difficult

HI Josh, Sorry I'm a bit late weighing in.

Totally agree with Steven's suggestion for Amritsar. Spectacular, and too-little visited. To me, Golden Temple is right up there with the Taj Mahal--but unlike the latter, is a LIVING iconic place.

Shimla is on your list of "want to see " places. I loved it there. There are train/s from Amritsar, connecting at Ambala maybe?--that could get you to Shimla. There are far more expert IMers who will know this.

For what it's worth, IMHO i thought the Shimla-Kalka "Himalayan Queen" chair - class was wayyy overrated--it's a a loooonnnng slow trip with small uncomfortable seats and the scenery not especially interesting--certainly NOT spectacular-- esp'lly coming fro SHhmla.

Truly amazing place and such nice people. There is another, Hindu,temple in Amritsar that is similar but smaller. known by some as the Siver Temple and well worth a visit.


Try for the Shivalik Deluxe - much better.

Whilst waiting for more info......

Going from the end of your trip backwards

Agra-Delhi is easy (Taj Express normally has late availability in 2S, also foreign tourist quota (FTQ))

Varanasi-Agra on the Marudhar Express, I've not checked availability as there's a crazy number of FTQ places, book for 19th August

Shimla or Rishikesh/Haridwar, bus from Shimla to Ambala, then either train 18104 (Ambala 16:55, Varanasi 09:35, this train also calls at Roorkee at 18:56, this is the station you'd board at if you went to Rishikesh) or train 12238, Ambala 20:55, doesn't stop near Rishikesh, Varanasi 13:00, book for
15th, both trains have plenty of availability in Sleeper Class, but no FTQ.

Have you gone the required 10 rounds with the Indian Railway booking system yet? you need to to start booking.

Hi Steven,

This is all good to hear, I'm guessing you think that route 2 makes the most sense? We'd also be able to visit Amritsar between Bikaner and Shimla this way, something I hadn't initially considered. I thought that Amritsar might be a bit too close to the border, but as it comes so highly recommended I did a bit more research and you guys are right, we really should try to get there with it being so close to the other places we plan to visit (thanks Rebecca & Dave!)

I've not yet attempted to book any tickets, do you think this is necessary? As I say we'd like to keep everything quite flexible, but I suppose booking the last few trains would make sense to ensure we have our transport in place for getting back. Would it be feasible to do the majority of the trip booking trains a few days in advance, once we know how long we'd like to stay somewhere? The tatkal charge wouldn't be much of an issue as it generally works out at less than £1 per journey, but even so could we rely on this of the FTQ to guarantee (at least to 90%) that we could book tickets when we wanted (+/- 1 day). I apologise if some of these questions sound a bit stupid or ignorant but like I say but knowledge of the whole system is quite weak!

Thanks again,
Josh.

Why Kota?

Why Shimla?

can't work out rest of route till I know for sure you want to visit these places or others, eg., Jaipur has direct trains to Amritsar, so Delhi-Udaipur-Jodhpur-Jaisalmer-Jaipur-Amritsar works well, Kota throws a spanner in the works, though if Bundi is the main reason, Delhi-Agra-Bundi-Udaipur works well in Sleeper Class.

Same with Shimla, Amritsar-Haridwar has a great overnight train, not so Amritsar-Kalka, and overnight trains are what you need to keep your budget low.

I thought Kota (or rather Bundi via Kota) would be an interesting stop between Jaipur and Udaipur, but if it messes up the train schedule and wouldn't be worth that then it would be fine to miss it, it was something of an afterthought anyway.

We wanted to visit Shimla for a couple of reasons, 1 being that we'd welcome a bit of a break from the heat, and probably enjoy some rain! secondly we wanted to ride the toy train, I understand there are other mountain railways but we thought Shimla would be an interesting destination what with all of the history of the Raj etc... Of course we're really open to suggestion, and if you'd recommend Haridwar as a great place to visit I'll trust your judgement.

Would it make more sense to go Delhi-Varanasi-Agra-(possibly Bundi)-Udaipur-Jodhpur-Jaisalmer-Jaipur-Amritsar-Haridwar or Shimla-Delhi.

Or to visit Varanasi and Agra at the end of the trip and head straight to Udaipur from Delhi?

Thanks,
Josh.

Josh

I've not been to all of the places on your itinerary. I do know Udaipur. It was the first place that we went to apart from Delhi and it is a relaxed place but with enough of interest to be worth the trip. Probably a good starting point.

I haven't been to Varanasi yet but if you look around IM you will see that it has real fans and there are people who hate it. It certainly reads as a very Indian experience and it might be worth leaving until you have acclimatised - both in terms of weather and culture.

On your timescale Shimla is the only chance that you have of a hill railway and I wouldn't miss it - but I don't know Haridwar. Shimla itself is a nice little town and traffic free which comes as a great relief after a few weeks in India.

May be skip Jaisalmer. It's a long way to go to come back again and it will be very hot.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the info, you've made me feel much more confident about my plans! My girlfriend really wants to visit Jaisalmer and we're also planning to do a camel safari while we're there, so hopefully it'll be worth the journey. There are also over night trains Jodhpur-Jaisalmer-Jaipur that Steven suggested, so again the distance shouldn't be too much of an issue. This also sets us up for an overnight train in to Amritsar.

Thanks again for your input!

Josh

The thread's grown a little long for me to check, but has the aspect of weather been duly considered? It's gonna be mad hot and/or wet. Fine I suppose if you're OK with and prepared for that, possibly much less so if you're not. See also http://www.indiamike.com/india-image...size=_original and India climate chart for a general idea.

Traveling "on the fly" by train in India nowadays just isn't easy,* nor does the number of foreign tourists on the move ever factor in that greatly (well, except arguably with regards to the Foreign Tourist Quota, where available), it's more about what domestic passengers are doing, so in terms of local holidays and such. Train seats in any event are in high demand at any given time, and easily book out, not rarely far in advance. Me personally, I do use buses over reasonable distances (say 12 hours max., and preferably considerably under) as a way to get around this -- or sometimes just as the better and/or indeed easier option, period --, they don't book out so easily as trains, and can usually be caught at short notice, or really on the spot. It nonetheless always pays of course to enquire about your onward transport options as soon as you can in any given place.

* If the monsoon's on btw, of course count on this having a high potential for it further interfering with travel schedules. Certainly in the mountains, landslides and stuf may come into play, but it doesn't mean traffic in the plains may not be hindered. It won't make travel impossible, just trickier and more unreliable.

Rajasthan btw is well-covered by buses, and has many so-called deluxe buses (or known as coaches, rather, so deluxe coaches here) plying around. How deluxe that will really be always remains to be seen, but it will usually be at least a notch better, probably airconditioned, and the great advantage is they'll be (more-or-less...) each a seat to their own, unlike regular buses, which can really pack out to the brim and beyond. Traffic conditions of course remain the same.

Josh, this thread features some of the lengthier of my already often lengthy posts, however I and some others do get there into issues of traveling on the fly, on busing it, on Tatkal and the FTQ and their drawbacks and limitations, etc. Have a look, if you will: Itinerary draft Northern India 6-8weeks Nov/Dec.

Josh, bsed onwhat you wrote, i think you'll love SHimla. Son't miss the inside of the Vice Regal Lodge with its old fashioned sprinkler system,and historical rooms where treaties were signed. And Gaiety theater on the Mall there---a stpe back in time. In fact, the entire area by the mall reminded me of High Street in English towns as they were 40 plus yrs ago (before al the super modern shops) except the windows are filled with different merchandise. There is also a fantastic book shop, Maria Brothers, and a few doors fro it, a marvelous Indian pharmacy with al kinds of neat lotions, etc (girlfriend will enjoy).

Amritsar--in fact, its proximity to the Pakistan border is an attraction. IF you have time, it is worthwhile to make the trip (maybe 40 mins or so from Amritsar) out to the Atari-Wagagh border flag-lowering ceremony. Quite a deliberate show, but something that is fun, and you can join in the surprisingly good-natured cries back and fort across the border, of "Pakistan lives!" vs "Hindustan lives!"
(You can check a youtube of it that was part of Michael Palin's India documentary).
You will be outside in stadium like seats, so if
unbearably hot, or rainy, you might want to reconsider (We sweated buckets in June.)

Finally, i took the overnight train from the Punjab to Jaipur, the opposite direction to you (I think you will be going Rajasthan and then Amritsar?) if a night train, it might be nice to get the ac compartment--there are two sets of bunk beds in i Bloody freezing in January, but at the time of your visit, you'll need ac. Be prepared also for the occasional mouse!!!

Hi guys,

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you, I haven't had chance to check back for a few days...

Thanks for your advice Machadinha, I read through most of the post you suggested and picked up some useful information. The idea of travelling on buses/coaches seems much more appealing now that I know more about it, and it's nice to know there's other options if train tickets aren't available or the journey doesn't warrant using the train. We have 5 weeks and so hopefully any interferences shouldn't scupper our plans too much! If needs be we could miss out 1 destination if there is no other option.

Hi Rebecca, yes I do too, and I think it's worth spending a day of travelling to get there just to see it and take some time to relax there. I imagine the rest of our trip up to that point will be quite hectic and busy and it'll be nice to relax and cool down after a few weeks of intense heat! The flag lowering ceremony in Amritsar sounds interesting, but I think the weather will be a serious factor when considering that, but as you recommend it we'll give it some serious thought. As for the trains, again we'll see how we fair, we were hoping to travel in sleeper class, and I'm not sure they have an ac option there? I may be wrong. Thanks again for taking your time to offer advice.

Josh

There are 4 options in sleeper. Ordinary sleeper or just sleeper which is non AC,
Three tier AC has 6 bunks in a open compatment three on each side (hence three tier)
Two Tier Ac which has four beds in a open compartment, two each side (two tier) both these AC classes also have so called side bunks across the gangway from the main compartment.
Ac 1st class has sealed compartments with a access door which can be locked, these compartments have either 4 beds or two beds inside, There are no side bunks in this class.

If visiting Amritsar Dharamsala makes more sense than Shimla and offers far more of a mountain atmosphere than Shimla, which is a very busy town, with poor views of the snowcaps.