Grand Himalayan Road Tour (GHiRT)- What to Visit?

ks_bluechip · Mar 18th, 2008, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilliwala

'GHiRT' is pronounceable.

Not to be mixed up with 'girth' though.

Dilliwalla: Yeah GHiRT was good (was the small "i" for india?

) ... should we really bother Aisha for this?

Dilliwalla and All-IMers:

Without doing too much of detailed planning - just figuring out a broad route for now (like you do) ... and to try and put down the major places/towns/sites on way not to miss ... I was thinking about the first State as J&K ... and found that to be really a no-brainer. Have a look below and let me know if anything important is missing? Or anything worth missing??

**********

Pathankot-Jammu-Udhampur-Banihal-Srinagar-Gulmarg-Srinagar

Srinagar-Sonmarg-Drass-Kargil

Kargil-Parkatchik-Rangdum-Padum-return-same-way-Kargil

Kargil-Lamayuru-Khalsi

Khalsi-Hanudho-Dha-back.to-Khalsi

Khalsi-Basgo-Leh

Leh-LocalSights

Leh-PangongTso-Leh

Leh-Diskit-Panamik-Hunder-Leh

Leh-Stok-Thiksey-Shey-Hemis-Leh

Leh-Upshi-Pang-Thukse-TsoMoriri-Pang

Pang-Sarchu-Patsio-Keylong

Keylong >>>> to Manali OR Spiti-Valley ?

***********

All comments / feedback / changes ....... most welcome

- KS

Dilliwala · Mar 18th, 2008, 20:00

Hi(malayan).
Bother? I'm sure it isn't. Good practice.

Haven't been to Ladakh

, so can't comment on that part. Other than that, an Indica is clearly ruled out for the above.

ks_bluechip · Mar 18th, 2008, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilliwala

Hi(malayan).
Bother? I'm sure it isn't. Good practice.

Haven't been to Ladakh

, so can't comment on that part. Other than that, an Indica is clearly ruled out for the above.

Oh ok Him ...you already posted that earlier ...I didnt get it then

..... Yes Indica is out. Even if you a have'nt done Ladakh; you are a Map & Google expert too .... so look forward to your advise, after research!

PS: Also can you suggest & post a broad overall route (along above lines) for HP & UA? .... Since that is your territory?

ks_bluechip · Mar 18th, 2008, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeps79

I too wish that there are reasonable places to rent a car for this kind of drive.......or for that matter any driving holiday in hills............

btw i have updated all the pics on my jaisalmer and jodhpur trip on flickr album. I think you have seen few of them, rest are there to be seen

deeps79: Will see your recent pictures of Jaisalmer & Jodhpur at Fickr.
Also will be doing a crash course at National Institue of Photograpy - Prof Manohar Desai (Website: www.focusnip.com) - KS

ks_bluechip · Mar 18th, 2008, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khak

There is a series of books titled "Driving Holidays in the Himalayas : XXXX" by Koko Singh, where XXXX stands for Ladakh, Zanskar, Himachal, Sikkim etc. It is available in many big bookstores.

http://www.indiaplaza.in/search.aspx...Koko%20Sing h

Thanks ... Yes, thats a good series for Road Travel Plans ... currently reading the Bhutan one of that series (Sadanand of IM, gave me his copy) .... must buy all the ones for Indian Himalayas....

AvidTrekker · Mar 19th, 2008, 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by amarshah

Avid & Puchoo: Which Indian models have this 2/4WD that you talk of? Do you know??

Tata Safari, and a Scorpio 4WD (if they deliver it in the first place)

I believe Mahindra can deliver a 4WD Bolero, but you have to stop the vehicle to engage the 4WD. I don't know the latest position.

Quote:

Another option would be the Tata Safari. On the costlier front would be the Ford Endaveour or Hyundai Tuscon. (I have got few decent reviews on the Tuscon myself...) But sticking with a maruti or tata would be a good bet in remote places...

All the imported vehicles have this feature. Tucson has low ground clearance, Hyundai Terracan is the suitable one. See the video in post no 23 for its destruction testing.

Dilliwala · Mar 19th, 2008, 04:26

Quote:

I believe Mahindra can deliver a 4WD Bolero, but you have to stop the vehicle to engage the 4WD. I don't know the latest position.

Euro 2 model only, so can't be registered in a Euro 3 zone.
And crappy suspension as I mentioned earlier.
EDIT: True, u have to stop for a few seconds. There's a switch inside the car.

Phew, ksb! My planning quite literally takes place "on the road", so that's a tough task u've given me! But I cannot refuse, so just give me a day to bend my mind around it. Meantime, if there's any "must see" places from your side, please list them.

ks_bluechip · Mar 19th, 2008, 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilliwala

Phew, ksb! My planning quite literally takes place "on the road", so that's a tough task u've given me! But I cannot refuse, so just give me a day to bend my mind around it. Meantime, if there's any "must see" places from your side, please list them.

Dilliwalla:

Thanks .... just give us an outline of what you would consider as the "Best Long Drives of HP & UA" .... I have no particular places in mind & no time limits either! .... Just happy, scenic, drives and remote places worth seeing

... Take your time, No hurry (Havent even planned a date for this & certainly not before August-08) - KS
.

AvidTrekker · Mar 19th, 2008, 22:50

I just spoke to my friend who is into some similar "trip" planning about 4WD's available in India.

He is looking for the following attributes in the vehicle...

1. Ideally the vehicle should have "shift on the fly" meaning, 4WD should be engaged while running.

2. Power steering and steering column dampener is a necessity. If the vehicle goes over a boulder at high speed, person driving can fracture the wrist with the steering column's backlash.

3. Higher ground clearance.

4. Heater in case you are driving in the winter.

5. Other common to all vehicle considerations like easy availability of spares etc.

What he told me that there is NO vehicle with all these attributes.

For a small group of two, Maruti Gypsy is the best. It does NOT have power steering and st. column dampener. Suggested that buy a second hand vehicle and give it to a trusted mechanic. New one has to be ordered, delivery btwn 3 to 4 months.

Next for a small group is the Mitsubishi Pajero Baby(??). It has all the attributes. New not possible. (homologation hassle) Second hand avlble at approx 7 to 8 lakhs

For a big group, among the expensive ones, Hyundai Terracan is good, followed by Ford Endeavor, Hyundai Tucson, Nissan and others. Mitsubishi Pajero is also very good, but the pricing is the highest. You get everything in a Terracan for 8 to 10 lakhs less.

For a big group, among the less expensive ones, we have...
Scorpio 4WD, Safari, Sumo, Bolero, Mahindra MM540, Mahindra Classic, Force Motors (ex Tempo Trax) Gama.

ALL these in 4WD versions have to be specially ordered, with three to six month delivery periods.
.
.

Dilliwala · Mar 20th, 2008, 00:28

Quote:

Mahindra MM540, Mahindra Classic, Force Motors (ex Tempo Trax) Gama.

With power steering? Surely not?
Saw the Sumo Grande (2wd only) website the other day. Looks very good, but Tatas....?

I wud have to say that power steering and IFS are absolutely mandatory for any long drives, specially highly curvaceous ones. Everything else comes second.
I also don't get what's exactly great about on-the-fly 4WD. Seeing that one's not going to need to switch over at 90 kmph?

At 20 kmph and lower, I certainly don't have a prob stopping a few secs to switch over, I'll always prefer efficacy to convenience where 4X4 is concerned.

praks · Mar 20th, 2008, 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilliwala

I also don't get what's exactly great about on-the-fly 4WD. Seeing that one's not going to need to switch over at 90 kmph?

At 20 kmph and lower, I certainly don't have a prob stopping a few secs to switch over, I'll always prefer efficacy to convenience where 4X4 is concerned.

The most important advantage of on-the-fly 4WD is that you don't lose momentum while negotiating tricky terrain like soft sand, slush, wet mud, snow, or while moving up a steep gradient on an unmetalled road. Maintaining momentum is extremely critical when moving on such terrain and a shift on-the-fly 4WD helps you do exactly that. Move from 2WD to 4WD without having to stop and thereby lose precious momentum.

Dilliwala · Mar 21st, 2008, 14:42

My point exactly, praks. An experienced driver wud be able to judge before-hand when 4X4 is required, before starting up a 60 degree slope! I certainly wudn't start up and then in between go, oops! I need 4wd actually!
(Sorry, not trying to brag here, just talking prudence).

Though I'm still not clear how "on the fly" operates. Does the driver still have to flick a switch, albeit without stopping, or does it kick in automatically depending on terrain, gradient etc, like with AWD?

puchoo · Mar 21st, 2008, 14:49

i agree on being prudent but once in a while one can be caught off guard...for example you are rushing up a slope which has a blind curve ahead...the gradient post the curve is even steeper..and you didnt realize it till you got on it...in such a case you would use it...

Another time it happens is while driving on snow...might need to engage to get more traction ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilliwala

My point exactly, praks. An experienced driver wud be able to judge before-hand when 4X4 is required, before starting up a 60 degree slope! I certainly wudn't start up and then in between go, oops! I need 4wd actually!
(Sorry, not trying to brag here, just talking prudence).

Aishah · Mar 21st, 2008, 15:16

The inside edges of some of those uphill hairpin bends can be notoriously steep - discovered this walking down from Landour to Mussoorie and realize one of the reasons for taking up the whole road to turn the corner by one vehicle.

Dilliwala · Mar 21st, 2008, 15:55

Sure puchoo, but where does one find such roads? Metalled, I mean. And pure-offroad, as in quite literally going straight up a mountain slope, I haven't tried yet.

Seriously, I agree 4wd is a very useful thing to have, for those very rare occasions like being stuck in a rain-forest or in slush/ice (there have been maybe 4 occasions when I felt the lack of it. Ok, in 1 case lack-of-experience was the major factor, so 3). Unfortunately 4wd comes with too much baggage attached.
For hard-packed snow/ice (specially with pre-existing tyre tracks) the best thing to do is go across very slowly in 2nd gear.

Aishah, that's true, and still even the little 2wd M800s manage, don't they? In fact it's trucks which have more trouble, but they all are 2wd too.

(PS: A year ago, below Woodstock hostels/dhobi ghat - dirt road to Chamasari village. Got there fine, was smart enough to ask a village lad on the way down whether there's space to turn around at the end (trying to reverse up a dirt/shingle road?

). Yes there is - great.
Walked around a bit, drive back uneventful - for the first 300 metres. And then a nice and short patch of just loose stones and shingle (25-30 metres).
Suffice to say, I got away 45 minutes later. A bunch of helpful villagers removed a lot of the stones. We tried different methods, engine heated up, finally made it after having had to go backwards downhill and around a curve to allow for a 'launching' run. Made it past on the 4th attempt -so 4 times down/back, then accelerating around the (mild) curve and almost immediately a tricky steering manoeuvre a few inches from the mountain wall.
Phew! I don't know why I get myself into such situations - all's well that ends well, though

.
Wud have liked 4wd then though.

Mar 19th, 2008, 22:50	#54
AvidTrekker Veda Chanting & Mantra Yoga teacher Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: body in Mumbai, head in Himalaya Posts: 2,779	4wd I just spoke to my friend who is into some similar "trip" planning about 4WD's available in India. He is looking for the following attributes in the vehicle... 1. Ideally the vehicle should have "shift on the fly" meaning, 4WD should be engaged while running. 2. Power steering and steering column dampener is a necessity. If the vehicle goes over a boulder at high speed, person driving can fracture the wrist with the steering column's backlash. 3. Higher ground clearance. 4. Heater in case you are driving in the winter. 5. Other common to all vehicle considerations like easy availability of spares etc. What he told me that there is NO vehicle with all these attributes. For a small group of two, Maruti Gypsy is the best. It does NOT have power steering and st. column dampener. Suggested that buy a second hand vehicle and give it to a trusted mechanic. New one has to be ordered, delivery btwn 3 to 4 months. Next for a small group is the Mitsubishi Pajero Baby(??). It has all the attributes. New not possible. (homologation hassle) Second hand avlble at approx 7 to 8 lakhs For a big group, among the expensive ones, Hyundai Terracan is good, followed by Ford Endeavor, Hyundai Tucson, Nissan and others. Mitsubishi Pajero is also very good, but the pricing is the highest. You get everything in a Terracan for 8 to 10 lakhs less. For a big group, among the less expensive ones, we have... Scorpio 4WD, Safari, Sumo, Bolero, Mahindra MM540, Mahindra Classic, Force Motors (ex Tempo Trax) Gama. ALL these in 4WD versions have to be specially ordered, with three to six month delivery periods. . .

Mar 21st, 2008, 15:16	#59
Aishah She-who-must-be-obeyed! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Jaisalmer Posts: 4,448	The inside edges of some of those uphill hairpin bends can be notoriously steep - discovered this walking down from Landour to Mussoorie and realize one of the reasons for taking up the whole road to turn the corner by one vehicle. __________________ "Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards."

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Mar 18th, 2008, 20:00	#47
Dilliwala Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dilli Posts: 3,243	Hi(malayan). Bother? I'm sure it isn't. Good practice. Haven't been to Ladakh , so can't comment on that part. Other than that, an Indica is clearly ruled out for the above.

Mar 21st, 2008, 14:42	#57
Dilliwala Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dilli Posts: 3,243	My point exactly, praks. An experienced driver wud be able to judge before-hand when 4X4 is required, before starting up a 60 degree slope! I certainly wudn't start up and then in between go, oops! I need 4wd actually! (Sorry, not trying to brag here, just talking prudence). Though I'm still not clear how "on the fly" operates. Does the driver still have to flick a switch, albeit without stopping, or does it kick in automatically depending on terrain, gradient etc, like with AWD?

Mar 21st, 2008, 15:55	#60
Dilliwala Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dilli Posts: 3,243	Sure puchoo, but where does one find such roads? Metalled, I mean. And pure-offroad, as in quite literally going straight up a mountain slope, I haven't tried yet. Seriously, I agree 4wd is a very useful thing to have, for those very rare occasions like being stuck in a rain-forest or in slush/ice (there have been maybe 4 occasions when I felt the lack of it. Ok, in 1 case lack-of-experience was the major factor, so 3). Unfortunately 4wd comes with too much baggage attached. For hard-packed snow/ice (specially with pre-existing tyre tracks) the best thing to do is go across very slowly in 2nd gear. Aishah, that's true, and still even the little 2wd M800s manage, don't they? In fact it's trucks which have more trouble, but they all are 2wd too. (PS: A year ago, below Woodstock hostels/dhobi ghat - dirt road to Chamasari village. Got there fine, was smart enough to ask a village lad on the way down whether there's space to turn around at the end (trying to reverse up a dirt/shingle road? ). Yes there is - great. Walked around a bit, drive back uneventful - for the first 300 metres. And then a nice and short patch of just loose stones and shingle (25-30 metres). Suffice to say, I got away 45 minutes later. A bunch of helpful villagers removed a lot of the stones. We tried different methods, engine heated up, finally made it after having had to go backwards downhill and around a curve to allow for a 'launching' run. Made it past on the 4th attempt -so 4 times down/back, then accelerating around the (mild) curve and almost immediately a tricky steering manoeuvre a few inches from the mountain wall. Phew! I don't know why I get myself into such situations - all's well that ends well, though . Wud have liked 4wd then though.

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