4 weeks North India in October - itinerary advice

mikeinSomerset

Hi - my first post here! I think I'm in information overload at the mo having read a lot from the site. My wife and I have flights to Mumbai booked on 9th Oct. We have 4 weeks (27 days) for travelling and return from Mumbai. We are planning a trip mainly to North India. We are both 49 and haven't "travelled" anywhere too exotic since our student days (Europe & Central America).

I guess we would be medium budget travellers. We like to travel by train perhaps bus too. Sleeper class for over night seems ok for us. I assume air con. isn't a must in October.

We don't want to plan a fixed schedule - as we don't want to be simply ticking off the sites. Perhaps changing plans, staying a few days more in one place, etc. We would like to visit a few of the 'must see' places but also would like to get away from the tourist crowds for part of the time.

So far this is our rough thinking. Basically anti clockwise!

Arrive Mumbai & spend a day recovering from the flight.
Varanasi (by train) stay for (2 or 3 days)
Head for Delhi (1 day)
Agra (1 day)
Jaisalmer (2 days)
Jodhpur (2 days)
Udaipur (2 days)
Dui beach (3 days)
Mumbai (2/3 days)

So - about 20 days + travel & stops between - seems about 27'ish days to me.

A few thoughts of ours:
- perhaps we are trying to fit in too many forts & temples!
- it would be nice to get to glimpse the Himalayas / mountains & do some walking
- instead of Dui perhaps somewhere on the coast closer to Mumbai
- perhaps include a day or 2 in the desert

Are we trying to cover too much ground?
Should we head for Delhi & then travel to Varanasi, etc?
Are we missing out by not taking a train / flight to the south?

I have loads more questions but lets try these for now

We would welcome comments / other advice / places to visit.

Many thanks

Mike & Christine

boogschutter

Hello Mike and Christine, How was your trip to India? Me and my husband planned to go in december this year. Is it possibel taking trains without making any reservations ?

mikeinSomerset

We haven't gone to India yet - we travel ou in about 4 weeks. We plan to book our first hotel & train train journey.

boogschutter

Sorry, I wish you a very good trip and lots of good luck along the way. When you're back I would like to contact you ok ?

mikeinSomerset

fine - no problem

India with 4 kids!

I read your post and I'm wondering if I'm missing something...Mumbai is a long long way from Delhi. If you are really a "medium budget" traveller you might look into some of the flights within India, such as Air Deccan, instead of planning so much train travel -- in other words fly from Mumbai to Delhi. We flew from Bangalore to Goa for $20 each and it was a one-hour terrific flight and would have been about a day by land-travel -- if nothing went wrong! Of course, traveling slow is one of the joys of India but if you are really trying to see so many Northern sights, you might consider just flying directly there.

Hope this helps,

-India with 4 kids!

machadinha

For this planned itinerary, flying in and out of Delhi would make a lot more sense anyway. Or perhaps into Delhi, out of Mumbai, if you can arrange it. I reckon Diu to either Delhi or Mumbai wouldn't make much difference. Mumbai-Varanasi by train is quite some way (25.5 hrs. at best, according to http://www.indiagroove.com/ . Mumbai-Delhi would be 16 at best. [Substantial] delays on Indian trains are common, esp. long-distance, of course.)

I've not been to the mountains north of Delhi but I hear it's not far or very difficult to reach, and four weeks isn't bad, so you could work something out there I reckon. Have a look through the appropriate state sub-forums on this site, or through the Trekking forum, for some inspiration.

Since you're planning on Jaisalmer anyway, desert treks there are the name of the game, so doing just that by camel or jeep would be every bit possible, with number of days negotiable. Note that a sore bum seems to come free with the camel rides, so don't overdo it

Have fun. (ps Edit: Hm flights already booked on short notice eh. You could see if it's possible to change the destination, or consider a domestic flight indeed, certainly on that first leg. That train ride will be taxing, esp. if you've yet to become acquainted with India I think.)

__________________
Reading tips, all picked up at IndiaMike : INDAX's A Comprehensive Guide To India / Dinoj Surendran's Desi Humor / ITHVC on Culture Shock & Travel Health / JetLag Travel Guides For the Undiscerning Traveller / India Travel Links

mikeinSomerset

Thanks - I was thinking that rather than taking a flight a long train journey might be a reasonable way to ease into India!! instead of jumping from Mumbai to another mad city. Is the long train journey really that bad? I imagined sitting watching the scenery go by, station / train food, meeting people, etc. Not perfect for good sleep but perhaps less hassle that in the city. Have I got it wrong?

May be we break the journey between Mumbai & Varanasi - any thoughts?

The other thing is perhaps we go 'clockwise' and decide how to get back from Varanasi when we are there.

Cheers

mike

Buck

Hi Mike, I've asked the same questions as you a couple of weeks ago and you're going to be there before me!
The brilliant people on here have helped so much with my intinerary and advice about trains etc.
Here are my threads which contain links to other threads and so on. I do agree, it gets to be information overload at times.

Can you suggest other places to visit?

My reservations about reservations!

There's also a company in London that specialise in tours/train tickets etc and I 'borrowed' one of their routes and then adapted it

http://www.indiarail.co.uk/nasis.htm

Buck

Buck

incitatus

machadinha has already aired my rant about flying into one city and out of another.BA, Lufthansa, Emirates etc charge no extra money for this and it saves a lot of backtracking.
In this case I'm not sure why you've included Mumbai at all!
It does have proximity to Diu but reaching Diu initially is difficult except by flying from Mumbai.In your case I would have recommended missing Diu and Mumbai and using...gasp....Kolkatta or just in and out of Delhi.
But you've booked it so....

Himalaya....easy.
Go to Shimla from Delhi.
Take the Howrah-Delhi-Kalka Mail from Delhi to Kalka.Transfer to the Shivalik Deluxe toy train for superb views on the way up.
After you stay take the same trains back to Delhi.
(this train can also be used from Varanasi -it stops at Moghulsarai- but 2x20+ hour rail journeys a few days after arriving in India may be a bit much.)
You pass through the desert getting to Jaisalmer and can take day or overnight trips into the deeper desert by Jeep or camel from Jaisalmer itself.
The only beach resorts useful for Mumbai are to the south,my choice, Ganpatipule, is really a pilgrim destination with a great beach (no jetskiing or parascending though ...).
Reach by overnight bus from Mumbai.
ALSO...I wouldn't recommend sleeper class for these overnight 20+ hour train journeys.
Security is one problem also the toilets can get a bit....used.(the toilets are 'squat' and consist of a hole directly to the track and a not very efficient flush)
I'd recommend at least AC3 tier, but it's up to you.

mikeinSomerset

Hi - our flights to / from Mumbai we a lot cheaper than Delhi.

Re sleeper v/s air cond class on the trains - I was thinking of sleeper because of seeing out the windows - hadn't thought about security though. How bad are the windows in A/c class?

Thansk for the advice re Shimla.

cheers

York_Katni

Hi Friends and Mike,
Just back from my pole to pole journey from Kyle to St Ives with the famous book by S K Baker in hand for advice. The Kyle line is beautiful and the train reminded me of the Meenakshi with the rattle and scenery.The journey from Reading to St Ives is also very scenic. If it was not for the late running voyager I would have covered the Whitehaven-Barrow line which is one of the most beautiful lines in the UK.

Mike I'd recommend the following trains for you.

Mumbai to Varanasi -Do not take any train that takes the regular route. There is engineering work and when we hear that word we know what to expect. Take a train to Gwalior the Punjab Mail a train with a good name and timings and decent food[used to have a reputation for good catering]. Take the Bundelkhand Express. The Mail leaves Bombay in the night and reaches Gwalior next day afternoon. The Bundelkhand leaves in the evening and reaches Gwalior in the morning. Why I suggest this is that Jubbalpore- Mankipur-Allahabad section [which is the main line to Varanasi from Bombay] is undergoing doubling. Consider the weekly 1069 Tulsi express which will go via Jhansi to Allahabad[this is the only other train that avoids the jubbulpore section[be prepared for your train to be stranded and the probability of massive delays] totally which you cannot if you take a direct train to bombay]. It gets you in by 10.20AM. You can take a bus or take the 2308 Jodhpur Howrah Superfast train to Mughalsarai from Allahabad. Mughasari [the York in railway terms of India] is not far from Varanasi.

Otherwise if you would like a direct train but via the route[Allahabad-Jubbulpore] you can take the 2165 Bombay-Varanasi Superfast express.Decent train. The next option would be Kamayani which avoids Jabalpur-Manikpur. But it is better to stay away from Jabalpur[Kipling country]-Allahabad totally. Good for train spotters and diesel buffs but not good waiting for the line clear as there is a traffic blockade with one train behind another!
Varanasi (by train) stay for (2 or 3 days)

From Varanasi take the 2391 Shramjeevi good train which is rarely late. From
Delhi do not forget to experiment the Metreguage lines. From Delhi go to Jaipur by the Shatabdi. Delhi-Agra Taj/ Shatabdi Expresses.

Take the Bikaner Mail a nice metre guage train which are in fact more comfortable than their bigger counterparts. From Bikaner to Jaisalmer take a bus or taxi OR THE only overnight train the Jaisalmer Bikaner express 4702. From Bikaner take the overnight Bikanaer-Jodhpur express 4809 leaves JSM at 23.15 and reaches Jodhpur at 5.30AM. Take the Marudhar Express leaving Jodhpur at 9.15 AM reaching Jaipur by 16.00hrs[nice scenery]. At 19.00hrs there is a good train to Udaipur 2965 leaving Jaipur at 22.30 and reaching early next morning.
From Udaipur it is now possible to head directly to Bombay by the weekly thrice 2996 A [on tuesdays, thursdays and saturdays leaving udaipur at 21.35 and reaching next day afternoon]. Plan your arrival days to match the departure of timings of this train. Other sections you can choose to fly. But it saves a lot of trouble with this direct train. Indian Railways can even be better than the UK rail system with no engineering work or signal failure and it is round the clock. One needs to know what trains to take and what routes to avoid. Diu it is better to ask some one like Mr.Steven Bar as non-railway matters are not my specialism.

Accept India with an open frame of mind as every country has its problems and soak every minute of it and I am sure you will enjoy it. Lots of planning and advice from seasoned travelers will make the journey very comfortable.

to be read as Best regards
York_Katni

not much can be seen from AC windows. Do not carry much cash while on the move. Buy a chain and lock to fasten the luggage to the seat. Never lose your cloak room receipt as it will a catastrophic struggle to get the luggage back.

The condition of train toilets in india are exaggerated. Take a good toilet cleaner and some bleaching powder and spray it in before you get it. In fact the condition voyager, scot rail and great western toilets need not be stated.

The trick is not to take a very popular train which everyone will suggest when asked as it is first thing that comes to mind and the route that a train takes or a bad train but a medium range train with a name for decent service and thus lesser crowds. Sleeper class toilets in some trains can be very bad. But good trains like the Punjab Mail and the Mahalaxmi are very clean.2ND AC is a good option if you want to be safe. Medicines are available anywhere and medical help is at hand so there is no need to worry. Just be careful on the food avoiding the oily stuff.

nowadays in front of every station there is a prepaid counter. look for it so as to avoid being taken for a ride.

mikeinSomerset

Hi York_katni - many thanks for the detailed train advise - I'll study it with the rail map.

I assume the engineering works will still be going in October?

Toilet cleaner - something i hadn't thought of!! - you mean some liquid cleaner to clean the 'indian toilet' or 'western' or for both?

Would you suggest 2nd AC for overnights - instead of sleepers?

Cheers

York_Katni

Mike,
Go to www.indianrail.gov.in and you can find a map which you can print out. Line doubling takes time and this line is not exactly in the peak of health and is clogged with traffic. Once trains enter Manikpur trains jostle for space from the Jubbulpore end which is the station on the main highway to Bombay from Varanasi. There are nice bunglows and colonial remnants in Jubbulpore and a very beautiful narrow gauge railway that goes through the forest of the central India. It is living on borrowed time and will soon be dug up. That was my intention to caution you to take the Itarsi-Jubbulpore-Allahabad section. You may reach on time but there is also a chance of getting late.

Yes a strong phenyl based liquid toilet cleaner and bleaching powder is enough. Everything is available in India, along with all global brands.
You can book online through www.irctc.co.in. To get some idea of Indian railways go to channel 4 website and put mark tully and the howrah mail. Tully has written a wonderful book India's unending journey and also the The World is flat are good general reads on India.

Best Regards
York_Katni

The Bundelkhand slips past Manikpur at a time when there is a possibility of less traffic and avoids most of the congestion. Gwalior is a wonderful place and also has a nice narrow gauge train. Enjoy one of the greatest train systems of the world and savour the chai and samosas. A good starting point would be to try Indian food right away in the masala zone in soho. There is vast difference in indian food. Most eateries use the same base to dish out varied dishes achieve economies of scale.

2nd AC is a better option since it is your first time. The Bundelkhand and all other trains have MG. Avoid trains which are rattled out straight away when I want to go from place A to place B as trains. Each train in India has a character of its own and has its own set of clientele. The Punjab Mail is a decent train and keeps good time. Besides on sleeper trains if pulled by a diesel engine whose filters are not cleaned like some of the great western hst sets and your coach is next to it, you will keep coughing. So stick to 2AC. The door is always there to admire the views. But TTES may demand it to be closed. Tell him that you want to admire the views and you're on holiday.

2nd AC NOT MG

eateries meaning balti houses in the UK

York_Katni

Budelkhand Express
1 GWL GWALIOR 1 Source 19:50 0 1
2 DBA DABRA 1 20:24 20:26 43 1
3 DAA DATIA 1 20:52 20:54 73 1
4 JHS JHANSI JN 1 21:25 21:35 98 1
5 BWR BARWA SAGAR 1 21:57 21:59 120 1
6 NEW NIVARI 1 22:09 22:11 129 1
7 MRPR MAU RANIPUR 1 22:47 22:49 161 1
8 HPP HARPALPUR 1 23:11 23:13 183 1
9 BTX BELA TAL 1 23:31 23:33 205 1
10 KLAR KULPAHAR 1 23:41 23:43 214 1
11 MBA MAHOBA 1 00:05 00:07 235 2
12 BNDA BANDA JN 1 01:17 01:25 289 2
13 KHU KHURHAND 1 01:42 01:44 308 2
14 ATE ATARRA 1 01:56 01:58 321 2
15 BTKP BHARAT KUP 1 02:19 02:21 342 2
16 CKTD CHITRAKOT 1 02:37 02:39 358 2
17 MKP MANIKPUR JN 1 03:25 03:30 389 2[important point of passing to be noted] as MKP-Jubbulpore section is gasping for breath now.
18 DBR DABHAURA 1 03:50 03:52 412 2
19 BRG BARGARH 1 04:11 04:13 427 2
20 SRJ SHANKARGARH 1 04:30 04:32 444 2
21 NYN NAINI 1 05:52 05:55 482 2
22 ALD ALLAHABAD JN 1 06:10 06:40 489 2
23 PRG PRAYAG 1 06:51 06:53 496 2
24 PFM PHAPHAMAU JN 1 07:09 07:11 505 2
25 PLP PHULPUR 1 07:32 07:34 528 2
26 URPR UGRASENPUR 1 07:43 07:45 537 2 Train doesn't halt at this station, presently
27 JNH JANGHAI JN 1 08:08 08:10 552 2
28 SAW SURIAWAN 1 08:26 08:28 567 2
29 BOY BHADOHI 1 08:43 08:45 582 2
30 BSB VARANASI JN 1 10:15 Destination 627 2
Punjab Mail timings
--------------------------------------------------------------
1 CSTM MUMBAI CST 1 Source 19:40 0 1
2 DR DADAR 1 19:53 19:55 9 1
3 KYN KALYAN JN 1 20:35 20:40 54 1
4 KSRA KASARA 1 21:43 21:45 121 1
5 IGP IGATPURI 1 22:28 22:30 137 1
6 DVL DEVLALI 1 23:08 23:10 182 1
7 NK NASIK ROAD 1 23:23 23:25 188 1
8 MMR MANMAD JN 1 00:25 00:30 261 2
9 CSN CHALISGAON JN 1 01:18 01:20 328 2
10 JL JALGAON JN 1 02:23 02:25 420 2
11 BSL BHUSAVAL JN 1 02:55 03:05 445 2
12 BAU BURHANPUR 1 03:48 03:50 499 2
13 KNW KHANDWA 1 05:05 05:10 568 2
14 KKN KHIRKIYA 1 05:58 06:00 644 2
15 HD HARDA 1 06:23 06:25 676 2
16 BPF BANAPURA 1 07:00 07:02 718 2
17 ET ITARSI JN 1 07:45 07:55 752 2
18 HBD HOSHANGABAD 1 08:13 08:15 769 2
19 HBJ HABIBGANJ 1 09:23 09:25 837 2
20 BPL BHOPAL JN 1 09:40 09:45 843 2
21 BHS VIDISHA 1 10:23 10:25 896 2
22 BAQ GANJ BASODA 1 10:48 10:50 936 2
23 BINA BINA JN 1 12:10 12:15 982 2
24 LAR LALITPUR 1 12:56 12:58 1044 2
25 BAB BABINA 1 13:41 13:43 1109 2
26 JHS JHANSI JN 1 14:20 14:30 1134 2
27 DAA DATIA 1 14:50 14:52 1159 2
28 DBA DABRA 1 15:15 15:17 1189 2
29 GWL GWALIOR 1 16:00 16:05 1231 2