Womens Experience in India from a male point of view

the_choker

Travelling both by myself and with women travellers you really do notice the difference.

While travelling with me, my companionswere generally treated respectively, nicely and sometimes in awe. Generally I felt it was under the assumption that you were seen as partners and it was acceptable to seen out as such.

Seeing and hearing occurrances of women travelling solo, there is definitely an initial disrespect from a large percentage of the local male population. To me it appears that a lot of them don't actually have any idea how to treat a women (hey, but what male does right?? ) so they believe it is an automatic opportunity for a conquest. Their following reactions are based on how well you deal with the first approach, aggressive seemed the best.

From me, a massive respect to those women who do travel alone, strength and belief in yourself will be enough to show you the path through.

Taz

I finally travelled to India 2 years ago with a male friend who has been going for 20 years. 2 males and 2 females went. I am very confident and don't normally take much crap from anyone however, the men I went with could not understand how frustrating it was not to have anything exist above or below your breasts! I found the whole staring thing and crowds of Indian men gathering really annoying to the point of real anger at times. It was even worse when the men i was with kept saying 'well, it's just India'. just India my a***! I did find though that shouting seemed to stun them into not being able to do anything else but stare and eventually had to get the men i was with to deal with them (but this wasn't very successful either). We always dressed very conservatively so as not to offend or encourage but this did not seem to work (I don't think it makes any difference what you wear considering i was dressed form head to toe so stop blathering on about shorts and sleeveless tops encouraging them!). I did change my strategy and try to ignore them but either they came so close they were almost touching me (or were touching me!!) or they would simply keep catching my eye! It is one of my abiding memories of India which is a bit sad don't you think? However, having said that, I am off back there on December 5th for 6 weeks and can't wait...... visa - check, vaccinations - check, be very excited - check!!

divadino

Vasko

What's self-justifying about it? The women I came across in India who had encountered trouble with men were dressed in a way which was not appropriate for India - of course you are asking for unwanted attention if you put on a bikini on the beach or wear a sleeveless or low cut top or reveal your legs. Are people so arrogant about their own culture to think they can just pitch up and wear something that would go unnoticed in most of the West but in India is like parading round naked. I'm not saying that either one is right or wrong, but this is the way things are in India. Even a kiss or public demonstration of affection between a man and woman in India is deemed inappropriate - so yes in that sense women (and men who behave inappropriately to their surroundings) are 'asking for it' i.e. unsollicited attention.

As for having my 'eyes open' - I went to tourist areas and also totally off the tourist trail to tribal villages and my eyes were more than open. I personally do not agree with the treatment of many women in India - but we are visitors to the country and to impose our values and our way of life on other people is not necessarily right either.

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divadino

....and Taz

I hope you have a better experience second time around. Having read your comment about me 'blathering' about clothing. If these guys were only interested in looking at your 'breast' area then I can only assume they could see that you had a breast in the first place. Look at most Indian women, they wear a Sari or salwar kameez and it's very loose and baggy so you don't 'see' much in the way of 'breasts' or 'bums'. So my advice would be to take very baggy clothing or buy some lovely colourful local clothing. Then they are not 'tempted' or 'distracted' by it!

Dinah

Beena450

You can't go somewhere on holiday and then expect them to change thier ways for you. It's the way they live, you and I may not agree with it but thats life.

You are a guest in thier country, if you go with an attitude then you are going to ruin it for yourself. I'm not paying good money to go change a nation. I'm going there to enjoy the time I have. Yes, I'm not going to take men touching me or trying it on, but then I have to try and fit in.

How would you like it if someone came to your country and told you how to live or behave, I dont think you would appriciate it much.

I dont agree with half the stuff that happens in India but getting angry about it is not going to make any difference to anyone except me. Why should I let anyone make me feel like that.

As they say while in Rome.....

dokidoki

divadino and beena 450, no body here said anything about wearing revealing clothing, you are making presumptions. you have no idea about what these people are wearing. I personally wore a skirt and t-shirt for some days, and a salwa on others, i got the same reaction! most men looked at my breasts (my boyfriend laughed at how much it was like japan! and they all looked at my legs to check if they were covered (regardless of what i was wearing), i think it is a definite male gaze - much as it is in japan, to deny it is a bit weird ...and certainly wrong to blame the women as stupid when you have no idea how they present themeselves in India. Sure there are plenty of people who wear inappropraite clothing, but how do you know they do?. they are just commenting on how frustrating it is. cant imagine why you get no gaze... perhaps you are not as dazzling as you imagine.

Taz

Phew, sorry divadino and beena450 didn't realise i would cause such a stir! I would like to say in my defence that i have travelled a lot in my time and always try to respect the culture of the place I am visiting hence the reason I dressed very conservatively and with much baggy clothing in India. I took a lot of time to read up about the place and find out how i might or might not offend them. Imagine my surprise when this seemed not to make the slightest bit of difference! I also try very hard to accomodate all the varieties of the multi-cultral society we have in my country - I love variety and do not want anyone anywhere to change anything for me. I do however expect the same courtesy back from other people - it cannot only be one way surley? They must know it offends western women to stare at them in such a way? why should I be the only one who takes into account other peoples culture? I am expected in my country to take into account others culture while they are here (and I wholeheartedly agree with that) why then should I not expect this back when visiting other Cultures? I will go with a different attitude towards it this time but doesn't mean to say I like it or agree with it! And thanks Dokidoki, felt a bit overwhelmed there like I had commited the ultimate sin of having breasts!

Beena450

dokidoki,

My comments are not entirely about clothes, its about attitude, yes I did come across women in tight clothes and short skirts, but thats thier choice...

You seem to be wanting to have an arguement with someone. I got stared at quite alot, especially when i was with non-asian people, but then again I took it in my stride, as I've been going to Pakistan since I was a kid, so its not a culture shock for me, its how people from there are like. I wore salwar kameez throughout my stay, but there were days people tried thier luck. Now you can rant about it or you can smile and say no thankyou. I did both depending on how tired I was. But, I'm a believer of saying things with a smile and then using anger if that did not work.

I dont know you or anything about you, but your mail come across as quite aggressive. So I'm making my assumptions on you from that. If I have got it wrong so be it.

Vasko

divadino,

By self-justifying I meant that MEN justify how they treat women with this simple defense: "THEY were asking for it".

Why do men want women covered up from head to toe? They aren't covering the women's bodies as much as their own inability to deal with women's sexuality and their own, as well. Don't know how to deal with sexual impulses, frustrations, aggressions? Oppress their source! It's been done for ages.

and beena,

Cultural customs and traditions are ok, yes, when in Rome, etc. But since when has sexual harassment been legitimized as a form of culture? Adjustment to cultural norms does not equate with "anything goes".

I don't respect a tits-n-ass-grabbing bloke no matter what locality he lives out his fantasies in.

I really hope no woman hides behind cultural-relativist or any other types of excuses for shoddy treatment.

Beena450

Vasko

I don't agree with sexual harrasment either, and no it should be excused with the excuse of culture, I'm talking about how we should handle it. Like it or not, dressed head to foot or in a bikini, if a guy wants to hassle you he will.

Its up to you how you will handle it, but reading this forum, it seems like people go out with an preconcieved attitude of dealing with it in anger.

I also dont agree with man making a woman cover themselves head to foot in cloth, but I have met plenty of women who prefer dressing that way. I'll never understand it, but thats thier choice, not forced on them.

All I'm saying is there is other ways of dealing with situations, then in your face anger. As, in my opinion, I'd only be ruining my own experiences of somewhere I may never get the chance to visit again.

HumanBean

Very few men get how awful, derogatory and sick the 24/7 brushing against/ leering, staring is. I gave up explaining to them ages ago, it's only the fathers with daughters who seem to have some inkling of how terrible it is.

Just about every woman here knows that even if a girl/lady is dressed in a head-to-toe, all encompassing sack, she'd get the same unwanted attention ("she's asking for it", ewwwww). “What was she wearing, her attire asked for trouble” is the sickest statement one hears over and over.

Does every single woman on every street yank a $3,000,000 Rolex watch off every wealthy guy they see? Just because they can? They do not. Just a rough comparison!

It's got everything to do with power, percieved 'availability' and truckloads of repression, coupled with the "we're just doing what all men anywhere" do sad excuse. Sorry - but most men in most other countries do not brush against women every chance they get.

The saddest post I read a long time ago was by a tourist who saw a dead (white) girl washed up on a beach in ?Goa. An Indian guy was fondling her breasts. What more can one say.

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Taz

Ok, i feel like i'm finding my feet now, this is the first time i've ever been in any chat forum ever and this is now my third post on this site (i think i've even managed to add a picture although not the smilies - i haven't managed that yet!) anyway this subject seems to be quite emotive but lets not get it out of all proportion. i think we all agree that it doesn't matter how you dress, if you're going to be hassled you're going to be hassled. i also hope we all agree that any cultural differences does not excuse sexual harrassment. it's not nice, it's not big and it certainly 'aint funny however, india is a fantastic place with far more to offer than a bit of titty watch! i cannot wait till December 5th when i take of for india again. any more of the old titty watch or gropping and i'll drop them a quick karate chop and move on............................ it certainly won't spoil my trip.

Dr Funkenstein

I've gotta be honest, if I had to add 'sexual harrassment' to the list of other hassles that you face in India, it might be enough to convince me to go somewhere else.

My younger sister's coming out to visit me in January. She's a nice-looking girl in her 20's and I'm a bit worried how I'll react if anyone gives her any grief.

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steven_ber

This thread seems to be heading in the usual direction for this kind of thread.

Please think about your comments before posting, we don't want yet another 'closed thread' on this subject.

Comments like....

or
I just chose them 2 comments quickly as an example of both sides of the argument.

Both those comments were probably from the heart, but both comments have the ability to really piss people off and start pointless arguments.

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katyrafi

Well, everyone's getting all hot under the collar here aren't they?

Dr F - I really don't think you should worry too much - she's your sister, she'll be fine.

I came here alone 14 months ago. I'm not unattractive and I love talking to people, all people, I'm curious by nature - a bit like most of the Indian men and women I've met. 65 hours on a train, I talked to all sorts of men, young and old, took the stares in my stride - after all I was wearing jeans, white, on my own, looked hungry and had a weird solar battery charger that they wanted to know everything about.

In the tourist area of Kovolam I used to sit on the rocks watching the boys diving for mussels - I was wearing a lunghi and t-shirt (not that that matters) whilst writing in my diary. They looked at me, I looked at them. A smile was exchanged - we got back to what we were doing. Little eye contact. After a couple of days of this, they offered me some mussels.

I never spent time in a bikini on the beach but that's just me. But I walked on the beach every day - if boys asked for my name, a school pen, a photo with them - I'd just laugh and walk on.

I think it's all about attitude - I've also experienced the deliberate brushing up by some men in a crowded place - a swift shout - hey, what do you think you're doing! - usually works - and I am careful not to make prolonged eye-contact with men, which is difficult but saves misunderstandings. I've also had shopkeepers asking to befriend me and as someone else mentioned, a response of don't be ridiculous I came here to get my necklace fixed or whatever is enough.

Sexual harrassment in whatever form is wrong and should not be tolerated but at the same time we women should not put up a shield around ourselves out of fear. Of course people are curious about westerners and why shouldn't they be - we can learn a lot by communicating and maybe, just maybe change a few of these attitudes about women being better seen and not heard.

On clothing - of course we should respect the different cultural norms for women here and dress decently but in no way is the way we dress Ever an excuse for bad behaviour.

I'll shut up now

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