What the...? Strange questions for India experts

Aishah · Apr 21st, 2008, 11:31

'Women's circle' - a loose term for groups of women sitting around in their home or village. No - mostly you will not see them sitting about as men do, in public places. It is considered very bad form for them to do this - you won't see them sitting much around having chai etc. unless they are waiting around the hospital, for a bus.. I'm speaking here about women living in more traditional situations, not the big metros.

Brisso · Apr 21st, 2008, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristinm

Which is what made me muse on the medicinal properties of opium and whether, like many traditions, it has at least some basis in practicality...

Clearly opium is an analgesic and always has been used in pain relief (even in the West - morphine and codeine currently - even heroin in Australia up to the 60's for chronic pain and palliative care, before the US government leant on the Australian Government to have it banned in spite of concerted opposition of the Australian Medical Association), but the reasons for use may be primarily cultural - opium is not deleterious to health and the elders are not required to be productive, so addiction is not such a big deal. Having junkie sons who are meant to be doing the plowing is another matter.

vireya · Apr 21st, 2008, 12:54

In Shimla last year I was talking with a woman from Australia who had just been told off by a local for standing outside her hotel, smoking. He told her that a woman smoking in public was not appropriate. If she wanted to smoke she should go inside where no-one would see her. She tried to explain that in Australia it would be considered inappropriate (if not illegal) to smoke inside, but he couldn't get his head around that idea!

Nick-H · Apr 21st, 2008, 13:12

I am always being amazed to come accross stuff like this about some country I've never been to!

Here in Chennai, and the few other S. Indian places I've been to, I've never seen a chillum, let alone seen men smoking it, and I've only smelt the unmistakable scent of cannabis on two or three occasions in as many years (which goes to show that it is smoked here, but probably usually much more discretely). Does it happen in rural villages in the south?

So far as smoking in general is concerned, that is something women just do not do in public here. I don't recall even seeing women who live on the street smoking (not that I have looked hard; lack of privacy and being a general peep-show is one of the worst things about these peoples' lives) but I think a woman with a cigarette would stand out. Certainly I've never seen the veggie or flower sellers smoking. Paan, on the other hand, yes; no difference on that one from Aishah's North.

I think I'd disagree that opium is not deleterious to health. Addiction is a sickness to begin with, and even my small amount of medical experience with opiate pain killers introduced me to some of lesser side effects such as constipation, skin rashes and itching. There is a body of opinion that, so far as western-world use of opiates as heroin, is concerned, it is the impurities and the impossibility of predicting the strength of the drug that does more harm than the drug itself. There is, I understand, a serious world-wide shortage of opium for medical use, due to the USA's actions in places like Afghanistan.

As I mentioned in another thread recently, when I am very old, or otherwise aware that I do not have long to live, I shall take to opium --- and depart the world with a silly, dreamy grin on my face!

freenote · Apr 21st, 2008, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristinm

http://www.indiamike.com/photopost/s...5/limit/recent

Can anyone tell me what these guys might be doing - they were in the street in Ghanerao

It's highly unlikely to be opium in a chilum it would burn to quickly and that would be considered a waste .Opium is usually smoked through a pipe where a slow burn is possible or ingested in some fashion .
Quote Nick "
As I mentioned in another thread recently, when I am very old, or otherwise aware that I do not have long to live, I shall take to opium --- and depart the world with a silly, dreamy grin on my face!"

That is my intention as well ...way to go .

machadinha · Apr 21st, 2008, 14:30

Thing is the euphoric effect doesn't last all that long with (not that terribly) prolonged use and after that you're just a junkie without too much of the kicks of it. I share the romantic notion of the way to pass on out of this life though. (The question then becomes: How to time it though?)

I agree btw there's a lot to be said about the natural product vs. several chemical derivations of it. But make no mistake the effects of habituation will make themselves felt quite readily in either case. Anyway let's leave it for other forums, IM is not the place for it.

Nick-H · Apr 21st, 2008, 14:40

Yes, you are right... on all those points

kristinm · Apr 21st, 2008, 15:33

All true from everyone - and thanks for the input, I knew it was a chillum but was wondering what might be in it... my train of thought was that after a long hard life of manual labour one's joints and bones must have taken some damage... perhaps the use of opium - or for that matter hashish by the elderly is partly a way of easing the rest of one's life, a little less pain, feel the cold or heat a little less..Many an old person in Western nursing homes is on a constant diet of pain killers and mood enhancers...

Women smoking in public used to be very frowned upon here as well..my grandmother used to mutter very darkly when she saw it... but then she used to wear gloves and a hat to do her shopping.

And I remember when I was old enough to be offered a drink at home I asked my Grandfather for a scotch.. He was HORRIFIED ..to him it was a men's drink and ladies simply did not drink it.. sherry, wine, even a brandy - but definitely not a scotch. I already posted about the ladies bar at the pub..After a day in town (we lived hours from the local town) at cattle sales or somehthing we used to sit in the car in the heat and mum would bring us a red lemonade from the ladies bar, while Dad was in the public bar with the men having beers. I don't even think they served beer in the Ladies bar - only genteel drinks!

Selkie · Apr 21st, 2008, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristinm

OK - I have another question... given that people seem to exist in various states of illness on the streets without being paid much attention or given treatment - what DO you do if you see something and feel you simply must help???

Usually I was able to let it kind of wash over me and not allow myslef to feel too much anger or distress (I am angry - but save that for another thread). But in Agra there was a woman comatose and skeletal lying on a filthy sheet on the side of the road with a small baby and a crawling baby beside her - both babies were awake, but not looking well, and at first I thought the woman was dead... of course people were walking straight past without a glance.

I really didn't know what to do.. I saw her move and went over and tucked a 10 rupee note under her arm, she didn't wake up - although I'm sure another sharp eyed person would have snapped it up once I left so even that was probably in vain. I couldn't think what else to do.. I asked a stallholder - shrug, a passing well dressed family - shrug, a policeman - shrug - I tried to insist that the policeman do something and he seemed to think I wanted her moved on, so I told him to forget it. I asked back at the hotel - shrug.... you get the drift.

So is there a 000 equivalent? Or a public health service? Or anything.. should the police have been obligated to help her?

Should I have gone and bought some food and tried to feed the babies? How do you find a charity that could help on the spot? Who do you ask?

I wanted to revive this post as it raises a good question - what can one do in a situation like this - what is the best thing to do? NickH answered, but any more responses to this question would be appreciated.

Would it just be up to the 'concerned individual' to arrange transport to a hospital and pay for hospital treatment, and arrange something for the children e.g. an orphanage, or is there anything else that could be done?

Clearly when in India there are many distressing things that one might see, but this case is quite extreme, and sometimes action needs to be taken IMHO.

Nick-H · Apr 21st, 2008, 17:28

I am a member of the AASI (the Automobile Association of Southern India). Recently they sent out this mailing:

Quote:

“The Supreme Court has ruled that all injured persons especially in the case of road traffic accidents, physical assaults, etc., when brought to a hospital / medical centre, have to be offered first aid, stabilized and shifted to a higher centre / government centre if required. It is only after this that the hospital can demand payment or complete police formalities. In case you are a bystander and wish to help someone in an accident, please go ahead and do so. Your responsibility ends as soon as you leave the person at the hospital.

The hospital bears the responsibility of informing the police, taking
medico-legal action, trauma care, first aid, etc. The Police have no right to harass you after you have done your work by admitting the victim(s) at the hospital.

We wish and hope that you will have no such emergency. But if you see any accident victim on the road, please help him without any fear of harassment.

That's the law. The practicality is another thing altogether. kristinm's might have been able to get an auto driver to take the woman and her children to hospital, she might not. She might have been able to get someone to examine them...

Gametotravel · Apr 21st, 2008, 18:04

All taboos in the mind.It is upto the individual to question or to accept.

On the other hand if the individual wants to partake then a good introduction in words or actions needs to be attempted and displayed for the group acceptance!

Also the group are known to each other so a outsider certainly has to make some effort to break in. Whether it be to chat or inquire ,the harmlessness of the action needs to be portrayed.

As far as women in more traditional less modern society go-if they do indulge then they do it in the confines of their house and not in any social gathering!

kristinm · May 1st, 2008, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

I am a member of the AASI (the Automobile Association of Southern India). Recently they sent out this mailing:

That's the law. The practicality is another thing altogether. kristinm's might have been able to get an auto driver to take the woman and her children to hospital, she might not. She might have been able to get someone to examine them...

I was really angry about the policemans' reaction - he actually thought I wanted them moved and was prepared to do it too!

kristinm · May 1st, 2008, 14:44

Can you tell me the name for the beautiful brass jugs/pots this man is making? Do they have a different name in different places? I loved seeing them hanging off motorbikes etc - and then to see people making them as well
http://www.indiamike.com/photopost/s...0/ppuser/18940

MrsC_772 · May 1st, 2008, 23:49

I don't know what the brass pots are called, but I was told that a motorbike with several of the pots strapped to the side is the Indian answer to a milk float.

nayan · May 2nd, 2008, 00:15

They are called by different names in different languages. they would be called "kalshi" or "ghara" in bengali.

Apr 21st, 2008, 11:31	#76
Aishah She-who-must-be-obeyed! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Jaisalmer Posts: 3,715	'Women's circle' - a loose term for groups of women sitting around in their home or village. No - mostly you will not see them sitting about as men do, in public places. It is considered very bad form for them to do this - you won't see them sitting much around having chai etc. unless they are waiting around the hospital, for a bus.. I'm speaking here about women living in more traditional situations, not the big metros. __________________ "Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards."

Apr 21st, 2008, 13:12	#79
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 24,473	I am always being amazed to come accross stuff like this about some country I've never been to! Here in Chennai, and the few other S. Indian places I've been to, I've never seen a chillum, let alone seen men smoking it, and I've only smelt the unmistakable scent of cannabis on two or three occasions in as many years (which goes to show that it is smoked here, but probably usually much more discretely). Does it happen in rural villages in the south? So far as smoking in general is concerned, that is something women just do not do in public here. I don't recall even seeing women who live on the street smoking (not that I have looked hard; lack of privacy and being a general peep-show is one of the worst things about these peoples' lives) but I think a woman with a cigarette would stand out. Certainly I've never seen the veggie or flower sellers smoking. Paan, on the other hand, yes; no difference on that one from Aishah's North. I think I'd disagree that opium is not deleterious to health. Addiction is a sickness to begin with, and even my small amount of medical experience with opiate pain killers introduced me to some of lesser side effects such as constipation, skin rashes and itching. There is a body of opinion that, so far as western-world use of opiates as heroin, is concerned, it is the impurities and the impossibility of predicting the strength of the drug that does more harm than the drug itself. There is, I understand, a serious world-wide shortage of opium for medical use, due to the USA's actions in places like Afghanistan. As I mentioned in another thread recently, when I am very old, or otherwise aware that I do not have long to live, I shall take to opium --- and depart the world with a silly, dreamy grin on my face! __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Apr 21st, 2008, 14:30	#81
machadinha Not Your Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: yörp Posts: 9,369	Thing is the euphoric effect doesn't last all that long with (not that terribly) prolonged use and after that you're just a junkie without too much of the kicks of it. I share the romantic notion of the way to pass on out of this life though. (The question then becomes: How to time it though?) I agree btw there's a lot to be said about the natural product vs. several chemical derivations of it. But make no mistake the effects of habituation will make themselves felt quite readily in either case. Anyway let's leave it for other forums, IM is not the place for it. __________________ Reading tips, all picked up at IndiaMike : INDAX's A Comprehensive Guide To India / Dinoj Surendran's Desi Humor / ITHVC on Culture Shock & Travel Health / JetLag Travel Guides For the Undiscerning Traveller / India Travel Links

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Apr 21st, 2008, 12:54	#78
vireya Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 202	In Shimla last year I was talking with a woman from Australia who had just been told off by a local for standing outside her hotel, smoking. He told her that a woman smoking in public was not appropriate. If she wanted to smoke she should go inside where no-one would see her. She tried to explain that in Australia it would be considered inappropriate (if not illegal) to smoke inside, but he couldn't get his head around that idea!

Apr 21st, 2008, 14:40	#82
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 24,473	Yes, you are right... on all those points

Apr 21st, 2008, 15:33	#83
kristinm Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Beautiful Bondi (not Bundi!) Posts: 1,280	All true from everyone - and thanks for the input, I knew it was a chillum but was wondering what might be in it... my train of thought was that after a long hard life of manual labour one's joints and bones must have taken some damage... perhaps the use of opium - or for that matter hashish by the elderly is partly a way of easing the rest of one's life, a little less pain, feel the cold or heat a little less..Many an old person in Western nursing homes is on a constant diet of pain killers and mood enhancers... Women smoking in public used to be very frowned upon here as well..my grandmother used to mutter very darkly when she saw it... but then she used to wear gloves and a hat to do her shopping. And I remember when I was old enough to be offered a drink at home I asked my Grandfather for a scotch.. He was HORRIFIED ..to him it was a men's drink and ladies simply did not drink it.. sherry, wine, even a brandy - but definitely not a scotch. I already posted about the ladies bar at the pub..After a day in town (we lived hours from the local town) at cattle sales or somehthing we used to sit in the car in the heat and mum would bring us a red lemonade from the ladies bar, while Dad was in the public bar with the men having beers. I don't even think they served beer in the Ladies bar - only genteel drinks!

Apr 21st, 2008, 18:04	#86
Gametotravel Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 261	All taboos in the mind.It is upto the individual to question or to accept. On the other hand if the individual wants to partake then a good introduction in words or actions needs to be attempted and displayed for the group acceptance! Also the group are known to each other so a outsider certainly has to make some effort to break in. Whether it be to chat or inquire ,the harmlessness of the action needs to be portrayed. As far as women in more traditional less modern society go-if they do indulge then they do it in the confines of their house and not in any social gathering!

May 1st, 2008, 14:44	#88
kristinm Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Beautiful Bondi (not Bundi!) Posts: 1,280	Can you tell me the name for the beautiful brass jugs/pots this man is making? Do they have a different name in different places? I loved seeing them hanging off motorbikes etc - and then to see people making them as well http://www.indiamike.com/photopost/s...0/ppuser/18940

May 1st, 2008, 23:49	#89
MrsC_772 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: England Posts: 95	I don't know what the brass pots are called, but I was told that a motorbike with several of the pots strapped to the side is the Indian answer to a milk float.

May 2nd, 2008, 00:15	#90
nayan Maha Guru Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: hyderabad/tokyo Posts: 524	They are called by different names in different languages. they would be called "kalshi" or "ghara" in bengali.

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