The India confusion

bijapuri

eloquent ode to Ma India!

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"You know you don't have to act with me, Steve. You don't have to say anything, and you don't have to do anything. Not a thing. Oh, maybe just whistle. You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? You just put your lips together andhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/bijapuri/

Utube fuzzy logic:
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=bijapuri&p =r

xairoise

fantastic backgrounder. Hope to see India soon... If only the travel books could explain it this way ....*oh well

SHIMLA

Bloem,

That's one of the best descriptions of India I've ever come across. You have put it extremely nicely.

I particularly liked the analogy with the quilt - a quilt provides warmth !

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beach

A few postings appeared in the recent inspired me to post this.

Anyone with India connection interacting with the west is faced with questions on bizarre or otherwise things happening in India. Being the ‘spokesmen’ of a heterogeneous society is a taxing task.

It would have been much easy to answer questions had India been in the league of the rich or the poor. She is neither rich nor poor. The dilemma is that it is not even in the in between category also! As a nation it’s rich and as a country it’s poor.

Even though there exists diversity, the western societies are more or less homogenous and equal in its thinking and acts. Things there are much more predictable, business and life go on as usual. This obviously suffers the errors of generalization.

Nevertheless this assumption is fairly acceptable in comparison with the societies of a country like India. This diversity is indeed the charm as well as the problem of India.

Poverty is the soft underbelly of India. This is one phenomenon the west can’t understand. It’s a thousand times undignified and cruel than a job cut.

I’ve seen a traveler’s site where he has put the photo of a beggar with a caption reading something like “this one worth 10 rupees”. Indeed it was a cruel joke at the face of humanity itself.
Poverty is not an object of fascination, but a social ailment. And a beggar at the street is the obvious symptom. And charity or sympathy no cure. Some one quoted “Beauty is skin deep; ugly goes right to the bone”. Everyone in India is aware of this weakness.

But still, if you are a westerner and ask a question about poverty, you can see an average Indian going aback and being apologetic. It is one of the most difficult questions you can ask to anyone connected to India.
People associate themselves with the charm and legacy of India. They do it so passionately. And now comes the question, which associates them as a part of one of the poorest imaginable. Nothing can embarrass them more than such a question. As humanity you express your sympathy. And now you’ve hit the nail on the head!

There is no easy escape from this as unusual things happen in India like a regular affair. Probably the genesis of patience lies there.

Dr Funkenstein

Just stumbled across this excellent thread.

You're a great writer, beach.

Re: The India or Not question. Reading your post has just made me want to go more than ever.

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beach

Dr Funkenstein…

Thank you for the flattery!!!
(but I make a lot of spling misteks )

beach

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Hampi info

peter

Wow. What a fantastic piece of writing Beach. Reading it was like watching an intense movie. I could not stop. You have definitely moved me a few notches towards in my predicament. If you recall, I have a job offer in India, but my wife of 28 years has no interest of going. It has come down to My wife or India. Apart from the job, India has been calling me for the last 15 years. Your post has convinced me even more that I mst go. I wonder if I give my wife a copy of it to read whwther it will convince her to accompany me (which is what I really want), or will it make her even more anti-go-to India.

beach

INDIA: people love it or dislike it altogether. It is more or less like whisky, it taste bad at first and feel good slowly!!!
Anyway make a try

AvidTrekker

beach......

brilliant piece of writing, that was. I'd strongly reccommend that Indiamike put in on the HomePage captioned as "First time traveller?... read on..." Click on "read on" & voila.... thus unfolds the introduction by beach.

The viewpoint of a traveller landing for the first time is lucidly penned. It uses simple words, small sentences.... the hallmark of a good writer.

Personally, I liked your "wrestling elephants" the best.

quote

It’s akin to two huge elephants wrestling avidly. Nothing bothers them nor no one can stop it.

unquote

The sentence actually hides more than it reveals.
This IS India.

my humble pranaams !

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beach

Alright…I’ve written this write-up about India and started this thread with a different intention. It was to give a glimpse of how diverse and different the Indian people are to a totally ‘ignorant’ India contender. I did not think a political point would come under this topic.


For an ordinary person interested in traveling to India the behavior an odd local taxi driver is 1000 times more important than what its soldiers are doing at its far away borders or the likes.


Waiting for good stories to emerge to travel to India may not be practical. It would take millions of years for all of the Indian population to become very ‘nice’!!. On the other hand there are more than enough people waiting there to receive you, if you can see them.


Indian people are not vengeance driven against other countries or its people. They are tough and inflexible in their stands on issues.

They do not keep the memories of the distant past. No British people are viewed with contempt. It’s one country in this region where Americans don’t have to think twice before revealing their nationality (I learned this from the US friends’ posts over here).


Culturally they don’t care if you are from Bush’s America, Blair’s Briton, Saddam’s Iraq or Sharon’s Israel. Indians don’t bother much what the hell your (and theirs) politicians are (were) doing.
“How much will you pay for the carpet?” is all what the want to know for the time being. They mean business.


The issues with Pakistan are totally different due to various reasons. India (and Indians) view Pakistan with suspicions. On this regard they prefer to use a large rearview mirror than the windshield to look forward! It’s nice to see the sprit and warmth of the people in Pakistan in the recent events like the matches and other social occasions. Hope to see busloads of Pakistani tourists roam the Indian tourist places in the future.

excel125....
Please feel free to open a new thread to discuss the political part, before the chain reaction go out of hand (like the “Partition Talk” started by Volga). I’m not good (not that knowledgeable ) at arguing the political correctness of what ‘Indians’ are doing. But I’ll participate if it turns out to be interesting.

indiamike

Yes please do not hijack this incredible thread by beach with political talk. This is a site about 'Travel in India' and geared towards helping people who share that interest. This is a tiny website and we are not going to solve any indo-pak relations here.

Mike

Bryan

India ...For 99.9% of everyone on this site is a unique beautiful loving infuriating paradise that we all yearn to return to because for some inexplicable reason we feel a connection to it and its people ...As you can gather from many of the threads we are not sure why we, the afflicted, have this addiction but we are glad we do.
I look at Pakistan as India ...Not in a political sense but in a geographical cultural sense similar to how i view Scotland and England ...we also had a history of wars and hostility but now we kind of get on with it under the umbrela of the UK...Perhaps in the furutre there will be a south Asian similar to the european union...I hope so, we have more similarities than differences and thankfully we realised this.

So Excel please start a thread on the highlights of the other side of the border ...The Peshawar alley the Sind, Baluchistan ...The glories past and present of Lahore ....

William Dalrymple in his book Xanadu ...speaks of crossing from iran to pakistan wrote of feeling a sense of joy at seeing the Pakistani border guards sitting on a charpoy drinking chai ...I totally understood this. ...

Beach ...sorry for going slightly off topic. cheers for the great thread.

Bryan

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Then let us pray that come it may
(As come it will for a' that),
That Sense and Worth o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree an a' that.
For a' that, an a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That man to man, the world, o'er
Shall brithers be for a' that.
- Burns

Travelingbhat

I found articles that echo beach's great write up....

This one, about how indians dont know how to say no. I never ever thought about this and after reading beach's comments and this one, it finally clicked!

http://stylusinc.com/business/india/...ant_say_no.htm

This article talks about Indian English and the poor american's confusion.

http://stylusinc.com/business/india/cross_cultural.htm

Travelingbhat

I posted some articles to this thread to retain beach's original theme of understanding the indian culture and why people turn this into something political and hateful I dont understand!!

I have learned so much about Pakisthan from people on this community and I would love to hear more. Excel please come back, we have so much India knowledge here and it would be great to hear about Pakisthan as well. Prejudice and ignorance is the cause of most evil and sharing your knowledge would increase awareness, love and educate people who dont understand or dont know your culture.

Please come back.

volga_volga

mala, i don't think you can apply the results of that study to people living in the today's world. it is SO different. countries are no longer so much APART now as they were at the turn of the 19th century. the Europeans are no longer "owners" of the third world - now independent - countries.

also, I think if a European went to live in Africa his mind would be messed up as much as if he's gone to India... but may be in a different way. it is extending beyond your comfort zone and opening your mind that affects you. some ppl like to go to India for that, but not all of them.

unless messing up mind was directly related to masala dosa, Goan sun or Himalyan water...