How to deal with the beggars

Vasko

This has to be the single most saddest thing I've read on this forum so far...

mira4bai4

Theon you touched on it, 'Humanity'.
I suppose that it all comes down to our conditioning, what we are taught, the 'family narrative', being judgemental. Something I heard one day that makes me often think, or maybe feel, that is, we are all Human Beings, and if we spent more time 'being human, this world would be a better place.

So while those that get off their chuffs and do something are given rewards as they are trying to earn their way, what of all those others who would be very happy to do the same, are there enough carriages, roads and gutters to sweep for all of them. One of the aspects about being involved in business in India is that there is the understanding that there are more people in India than there will ever be work for, there are more people being trained for jobs that do not exist. the government is working to train labour and export it and in this way provide something for its people; well those that are not in the gutter. And for those in the gutter, well that is a problem that may never be solved so the officials say. One billion people! This is a population that is bursting at the seams, there will never be work for many, and they will remain dirty, smelly and illiterate; their only hope is to get some food for themselves or their family, when it is extremely hot maybe even some water and when the winter comes in the north well, hope that they last the night and see the sun rise and get warm again as they have no warm clothes.

It would be excellent to be able to teach them how to fish and catch their own food, many of them actually come from farming areas where floods and droughts have destroyed their homes and lands, housing estates have pushed them off their family lands, the village has gone, Give them pens and teach them to write, give them dreams and skills, but also give them the opportunity to work. They come to the cities in the hope of finding work, in the hope of finding work; there aint none!!!! It is interesting to hear their stories, how they got there and what their choices were. Remember that, when you are rejected by society there is very little that you can do about it, when you give everything and all you have left is hope, dignity and pride have been used up a long time back.

If anyone thinks that they are happy where they are well, this is a grave injustice, they are brought done to one level, that is acceptance, very humbling and is stacked with humility. But be assured, if you were amongst them and something happened to you, you would be helped. There is a code of conduct, but there is also the living fear of the penalty of brutality for causing harm to a foreigner and being separated from their family. In many cases this would mean death as you have to provide for yourself in prison and then who looks after the family outside.

So if they are hungry - feed them, if they are thirsty - give them water, if you can teach them, do so, if you can give them a job, do so, but if they are ignored then these people, our brothers and sisters are mere dirt to be walked on.

beach

Begging (touching) has nothing to do with caste. I don’t encourage beggars (or them touching me) not because of my or their caste.

I’ve never in my life asked anybody’s caste before (or after) offering a handshake. Nor any one else did it to me. I’m happy with my caste. There are many castes ‘above’ my caste. And there are many castes ‘below’ my caste.I won't marry any one outside my caste.I'm not bothered about any ones caste in social dealings let it be a begger or a classmate or a fellow passenger. That is how it is.

The caste system is the genetic code of the Indian society. It’s NOT an evil to get rid of. Each caste has its own customs and traditions. It’s not a joke that 4000 different communities have been living in a relative peace and harmony for a few thousand years. The very mooring of this society rests on in.

There is an impulse to accuse every social problem of this society to its caste system. This is because caste is an ownerless institution to voice the reason for its existence.

Yes. Discretion based on caste is the problem and not the caste.

cyberhippie

I'm not sure if I would agree beach but nevertheless that is a very interesting slant on caste as were some of your other points.
I still grappling with caste and it's implications as are most people I suppose. So what I don't understand fully I won't comment on!

Vasko

Exactly. What is sad is that someone is justifying their actions towards beggars on the grounds of the caste system. Which, for the record, is in my opinion a remnant that should be abolished. Just because something has existed for thousands of years, doesn't mean it's good. Peace and harmony through segregation and oppression....?

goangoangone

In fairness Vasko, I think you should include wonderwomanusa's last sentence. It puts a different slant on her post.
"How do you like being touched by strangers? Perhaps you enjoy it; I do not."

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Camelot

During my last trip to india i used banannas as a beggar currency and i only gave banannas on a regular basis to the same beggars if i stayed put in the one place for more than a few days. the normal price of a bananna is 1-2 rps so if you give 2-3 banannas, its not too encouraging. also because the beggar gets to know you, you build up a repore and are rewarded with big smiles everytime.(as opposed to the feeling of annoyance (once your skin hardens to beggars of course))

i dont think candy is a good thing to give out as it rots the teeth and im not sure what the teeth cleaning situation in lower class india is.

Vasko

Ok, in all fairness, that was also part of her point. A point which is very understandable... sorry for my selective "listening", wwwusa

This is a topic that I'm particularly sensitive to, don't mean to step on anyone's feet, just trying to figure things out. I don't have a ready-made solution that suits all situations concerning beggars, but I am in favor of building up a coherent attitude based on values that I can spell out for myself. In this pursuit all you good people are helping a great deal (mostly through provocation)...

goangoangone

Yes, it's a difficult subject. I feel uneasy about it. In London I dislike beggars because I know there's a system in place to help. In other parts of the world it's difficult to know if you're contributing to some overlord's income and maybe increasing an individual's misery. I agree that if you can give food or water then maybe you've helped someone out.

Nick-H

Random thoughts (from a random brain)

I have no problem with, "You have more money than I have: can I have some of yours?". But I do have the right to say no.

There are many jobs I would not like to do. Farming, fishing, any kind of hard labour, begging (actually maybe I would prefer begging to dragging fish out of the North Sea on a bitterly cold night...).
If it is true that there are rich beggars then fair enough. The amount of money that I give them is much less than the profit made by the shops on the stuff that I buy there. But no one has ever shown me a rich beggar.

There are some very peculiar reactions in this country. We have a magazine called The Big Issue, which is bought and resold on the streets by homeless people. Some years ago a newspaper 'exposed' a Big Issue seller who was making a very good living from it. The Big Issue would be a real success if everyone who sold it made a good living.

So far as UK is concerned the so-called Wellfare State has been succcessively diminished and dismantled over the years, especially since the days of the Thatcher government. Please do not assume that it is easy to get sufficient money to live on here; it is not.
Personally, having paid tens of thousands of pounds into the system I now get absolutley nothing out of it. Fair? I don't think so. (no need to rush the donations: the reason I get nothing is that I have what the government considers too much money in the bank. I'm not on the street, and I don't want for food. Yet awhile, anyway.)

I don't like a blatant lie. I don't like the girls that share a 'chinna baby'. I firmly declined to 'assist' a man who had 'lost his wallet and needed the auto fare home', (I've heard this one often in London: a youth with a bicycle once tried to tell me how much he needed a bus fare. Maybe the guy in Chennai was the the first ever to be telling the truth, but I doubt it!)

Outside of the tourist spots most beggars I meet seem 'genuine' (whatever; don't ask me to define it!) and I give to them. They are invariably genuinely greatfull and do not hastle for more. Those that do I walk away from.

True, I felt that the woman with four children ought to be given a packet of condoms, but this is real life, not a sociology lesson; could I do anything to change her husband's behaviour? Of course not.

The guys who push a lugage trolley at the airport for two minutes and then try to hold out for 100 or more ruppees I just shout at. I would rather just be asked for a few ruppees than suffer this pseudo-begging. (OTOH the guys who carry your luggage on their head, shoulders and in their arms at the railway station, now they are really earning their money.)

I always carry a pocket-full of coins so that I have something to give, and I do give.

I've been told by locals and others that I should not. One shop keeper friend of mine says, "It is actually easy to get started, if they wish they can buy some few things and sell them on the pavement, after sometime of doing this they can buy a stall and eventually end up with a shop. It can be done here, but they choose not to." He is not a mean man: he has helped me out by lending me several hundred pounds in ruppees, when I have been caught out by long public holidays, without asking anything in return. But this is his view of beggars.

But I give. That is my way. I do not feel that I have to have any logic, any policy, about it. I do not feel that I have to justify it to myself or to anyone else.

beach

Cyber,
Just try to explore what actually makes the Indian society. You’ll see caste as a major ingredient. The fact is that caste is more powerful in this society than our religions. Religions are sort of omni present thing people take it for granted. But caste has a more personal attachment. In India people changed religion but not their caste. Lower caste (or upper caste for that matter) people who converted to Christianity or Buddhism, still remained in the same class or caste.

Just a clarification if it created some confusion. My words ‘genetic code’ is not meant with the biological or ethnical context. What I meant is caste is the grammar or ethos in this society. It runs through the blood of Indian customs. It’s not to be looked upon as a social disease to be ‘cured’. Unfortunately caste is a neutral target to complain or comment on, to tell how bad it is, like the weather and no one is hurt.

Vasko,

Peace and harmony through segregation: YES and oppression....?:NO That is how it has been. The oppression thing somehow came in. I don't know how. Earlier the upper caste had a strong influence in the rule. Right now the lower caste is a formidable political power (sometimes even a bit on the over shooting side ).

Any way it is not a simple thing to explain like a physics theory


Just see my earlier post on 'castes in India'. Castes in India



I don’t know if I’ve told this story before here.

First of all let me tell that I’m not an expert on this subject. My understanding on this subject is only through the people work in this context.

Beggar is a very loose term to call any one doing begging. There are different kinds of beggars. It’s impossible to find out the real motive or cause. Like in any society, there are poor beggars and there are rich beggars.

This love affair happened in our neighborhood some years back. A girl ran away with a guy.
Nothing unusual.

The girl was working as a housemaid in a nearby house and the man was a beggar near a temple. The girl lived in the home where she worked and this man in a shed nearby. Everyday he used to ‘deposit’ his collections at a small shop nearby. This is where they met and eventually fallen in love.
Nothing unusual.

The shop owner agreed for the deal because this man brings a lot of small changes everyday, which is an advantage for the shop owner. The man could not safe keep the money because it was not secure to keep at his shed when he goes for begging. It was a win win deal for both this man and the shop owner.

There was something special about this chap. He’s not the regular pestering kind of beggars people find at tourists place. He used to sit at the entrance of a temple here everyday. Everyone knew him. And he collected changes. All in the temple were regular visitors. So there was no question of irritating people to collect alum.

Every month end he collected the money from the shop owner and sent to his ‘home’ from the nearby post office.

He used to disappear for some time at regular intervals. People said he has gone to his village.

One day the news spread of the runaway episode. That is when I came to know about the beggar, his shed, the deal with the shop owner, the money orders to his home, the housemaid and the love affair.

All our gossip ‘aunties’ in the neighborhood suddenly became SherlockHomes and worked overtime to investigate the case.
Nothing unusual.

The relatives of the girl were informed of the incident. A big group marched to the post office. They gave them a vital clue. An address to which he sent money regularly. The aunties transferred the case file to the ‘uncles’. A small but tough group has boarded a train to the neighboring state where the address was. It was a small farming town. They traced the house. The girl and the man were traced in the house. He owned the house and a couple of acres of farming land.

No one at his village knew that he was a beggar. They thought he worked in some far away town during the non-farming season. The fact was that he disappeared from our neighborhood during the farming seasons to oversee the work. He had many farming labors hired there.

The uncles took the right decision on the spot. He was the best man this girl could ever get. They arranged for a marriage there. The man had only one grievance. Since he was exposed, he could not come back to out locality for begging

Vasko

Thanks for the great story, beach. A happy ending, too.

Also, thanks for the link to the other thread, maybe the conversation on caste can be carried out there...

sadhuji

if you give the urchins who clean train compartments some eatables, they don't care much - but, if you give them coins, they love the gesture. the reason? the coins get deposited at one place and the kingpin (behind the racket) doles out favours depending on the number of coins brought in!! the story of oliver twist all over again!!!

Bigzero

the whole cleaning thing is a scam anyway. they transfer the dirt from one end of the compartment to the other, and an hour later, another boy does it in the reverse direction.

cant help feeling sorry for these kids... have seen some of them removing their shirt ( whatever is left of it ) and cleaning the compartment floor with it.

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jenky

In Mexico City there are a lot of beggars in the streets, in every corner, most of them immigrate from rural areas, mostly women with children, and teenagers.

One day some reporters went out to interview people working in the street (fire spitters, etc.), and they asked them "why don't you try to find a job?", and all of them answered... "Because we wouldn't find a job that paid as well as working here in this corner." It turns out they were making 2 or 3,000 US dollars per month working in the street, when the minimum salary in Mexico is around 4 USD per day.


Of course I always ignore them, and it is so difficult, especially with old people
My two cents worth.