How to deal with the beggars

cyberhippie

Absolutely right travinfoindia, it's an abomination that in 2007 we still have people forced to beg!!! This is indeed a social evil that should be seen to!!

An interesting question on this topic. I see a lot of moralising on the subject of begging. A favourite for some is that these people should give up a reasonably certain way of making their daily bread, instead they should go and find work.
Fulltime work is at such a premium it's just not a goer for most. So I'm guessing people are talking about all the "day work" that is prevelant in India, toiling in the hot sun for the mere pittance as low as 15 rupees a day.

Can someone please explain to me at which point a human being should caste off the supposed morality of society and just look after number one!!
Call me immoral, lazy, unsavoury whatever. But I'm honest enough to say that, offered the choice of shit work working for a wage that doesn't even provide me with enough calories to do the labouring involved, or begging by the side of the road for a slightly better pittance, the choice would be an easy one I expect for some poor wretch in India it's just the same.

Do I go and que like a begger in some line, hoping to be chosen for a days work, horrible dirty heavy work with long days and mean bosses. Or do I go and take my chances on the streets and try and build a way of having at least a daily income and some food. For me the choice of survival is an easy one.

That people think this way seems logical to me, too often they're lambasted with the principles and morals of "working society" of being lazy, not contributing etc etc.
Ask yourself what has society done for them. In many cases they are bereft of education, have no ties of neptism and are of the "wrong" caste or indeed a dalit!! Have little or no place to shelter their aching bones, moved along by mean minded policemen like stray dogs, abused by shopkeepers and yobs, their bodies wracked with the diseases of poverty!!
Do you seriously think that these people should put the morals of an uncaring society before survival???? I say no chance, others will disagree.

I think the few who make comments about finding work in India, don't fully realise the state of the work market for the lowly of society.. Jeez even ragpickers guard their territory and jobs like IBM just employed them, Such is the pressure of trying to find paying employment in India. Lacking a social safety net, some end up at the sharp end and choose a life of begging from the public instead of begging from scumbag employers who fully take advantage of India's pool of "unworthy"

The scourge of begging isn't to be explained away by false morality, or "mafia pimps" dismembered children or even drugs and alchohol. It's not all false or a cheap scam.

It's the result of a country who has for years turned it's back on the root causes of poverty and prefers to sweep under the carpet the horrendous consequences of poverty and the impact on a section of society!! It is from here the stories of an immoral aversion to work materieliese. Using the negatives (to be found in any section of the community) of laziness, drugs and criminal intent to try and demonise then banish a very real problem.
The truth, is more about survival than immorality!!

I really think it's high time Indians at large started looking at the state of the ruling class corruption within the goverment and civil service before casting aspersions on the character of beggers.........Don't you think!!

Rant over

Nick-H

Well said, CH!

Whilst I do listen to Mrs N when she says, no, don't give to that person, they could be working ---she is not mean, and does plenty of charity work, sometimes financial, sometimes practical--- I completely agree with the spirit of what you say.

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cyberhippie

Nick I've never had a problem with peoples personal feeling on giving or not. But sometimes the justifications for not giving to beggers goes too far, so far that we are left with the feeling there is NEVER a time to give to beggers, because of the factors mentioned above.

As a group of people beggerdom will contain all the unsavoury elements sometimes brought to the fore, as Mrs N will certainly know.

That's only part of the story as you already know!!

Nick-H

Completely agree.

And even some of those girls with their 'chinna babies' that can be such a pain in the touristy areas, have genuine stories and reasons for being there. It is not all mafia (any more than it is 100% genuine, of course). And just the fact that the baby may actually be a little sister does not make the girl not genuine.

If I am in London, then I despise and resent the use of babies and children (often in dangerous traffic and fumes) to extort money from passers by. That is because I know that, deficient though it may be, there is a welfare state and a safety net. But I cannot make the same judgements on the same basis here.

I think we're both saying that there is no black-and-white --- especially in India.

Actually --- I have more of a problem with people who want to give huge tips to everybody!

Funnily enough <<edit<< ? Even I don't know what was supposed to follow this. Oh dear, those brain cells.....

machadinha

Besides, I never understand how them working for someone else would be grounds not to give. We don't mind "regular" workers filling the boss's pockets. If the beggars take only a small percentage, that's still what they would otherwise not get. Or do we want them to show proof of their anarcho-syndicalist organizational forms first? Show me your Wobbly card, you beggar-person!

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Jasmin

cyberhippie at #367. Very well said. You expressed a lot of my own thinking. Very brave of you, and am glad to see that this site does not ban people for giving an honest opinion.

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Nick-H

...What a peculiar thing to say!

We do ban people, regularly, for giving honest opinions, if they are racist, sexist, offensive, etc etc etc......

Don't know how that can possible be relevent?

R.T.

Good one!

capt_mahajan

True.

The practical problem with that is that the 'ruling class' is like shifting sand. The civil service is a distinct class, but politics includes all kinds of people from all kinds of backgrounds and areas, rich or poor, urban or rural. And corruption isn't limited to one 'class' when they are in power.

Perhaps a lot more Indians are to be blamed for corruption; it is easier to just blame the civil servants and the politicians, or the police. So any cleanup will have to be broader than just the usual suspects'.

Noodle

The viewpoint that they should 'be productive', 'get a job' etc looks odd to me when I look at some of these people - are they at all able to work? They look sick, weak ... who would want to employ them? And for what kind of work would they qualify?

capt_mahajan

They would qualify for menial or labourers jobs. Maybe even some semi skilled ones, if they had some previous experience or skills.

The problem may be more the inability to get access to jobs.

As for their health and ability to work... not all are handicapped or particularly weak; and, there are probably people as destitute as them who have work, even if it is a dismal form of underemployment with very poor wages (which, in a circular manner, brings us back to cyberhippies post)

Jasmin

Good point Noodle. Having a roof over one's head and food in one's stomach helps in keeping a job and doing well. It must be near enough impossible to try and do and keep a job without these two important basics..

Nick-H

Just to take up the devil's advocacy for a moment... the stomach can be filled for Rs.10 and a building site labourer earns around Rs.200. The kind-of-positive aspect to there being no health-and-safety laws is no need to arrange child care: just take the kids along. And, for those who are yet to experience this strange and wonderous place; yes, there are many women working as bulding-site labourers, although they will earn much less than the men.

mal ishus

early last year in goa there was a full family laying a pipe line up to aguada fort,children, parents, grandparents all digging by hand as we rode past the bairns waved at us and smiled not a care in the world,they moved a tin shed forward with them to live in,we started to give the bairns sweets and bottles of water and other food as the weeks went by, at the end of our holidays we took all our loose change and cash down to them i had to beg the old man to take it, honestly there pride made me feel !!!! i don't know a word to discribe how i felt.

bairns= children

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machadinha

MalIshus: well done, I'm sure it will be a day or two less in purgatory for you

Cheers, really.